Compared to roughly a 120+ hour fully voiced campaign with large open maps and content upon content, MP is... a tiny piece of content, barely worth mentioning. I don't know how you could disagree with that. MP as it exists is nothing but reused assets for the most part.
You personally may value MP higher, but in terms of actual content, MP is barely a blip on the radar compared to the SP.
Killsion.... have you ever played an online game? Very often the same area is meant to be played on dozens or hundreds of times, or in the case of FPS games, even thousands of times. Anyone remember de_dust? That damned map was kept the same in every CS game and even ported into other mods and games.
The difference is variety. Even by the time of beta 4, when I first played CS, there was a lot more than just de_dust.
Compared to roughly a 120+ hour fully voiced campaign with large open maps and content upon content, MP is... a tiny piece of content, barely worth mentioning. I don't know how you could disagree with that. MP as it exists is nothing but reused assets for the most part.
I disagree with that. I've got 150+ hours with friends doing coop. I'm going to reiterate my earlier claim that you're making sweeping generalizations based on your own views and trying to pass your opinion off as some higher truth.
I disagree with that. I've got 150+ hours with friends doing coop. I'm going to reiterate my earlier claim that you're making sweeping generalizations based on your own views and trying to pass your opinion off as some higher truth.
Just because you enjoy 5% of something doesn't make it somehow greater than 5% of 100%. I'm enjoying the MP a ton myself, but to say it is more content, or even approaching a quarter of the content of the SP is madness. Just because you're playing something over and over again and generating something called "fun" by replaying content, doesn't make it magically acquire greater statistical properties. The number of content doesn't magically increase as you replay it, it remains static.
Just because you enjoy 5% of something doesn't make it somehow greater than 5% of 100%. I'm enjoying the MP a ton myself, but to say it is more content, or even approaching a quarter of the content of the SP is madness. Just because you're playing something over and over again and generating something called "fun" by replaying content, doesn't make it magically acquire greater statistical properties. The number of content doesn't magically increase as you replay it, it remains static.
If you overgeneralize the single player game enough, you could say it's the exact same content with a different environment copypasted over and over and over with slightly varying abilities over the course of everything. Besides, you're making a wildly false comparison--that's not how you view SP and MP content relative to each other. It'd be just as wrong for me to say SP has a quarter of the content of Multiplayer because you only have 1 person instead of 4. MP is about presenting a framework for the players to coexist in, SP is about making a novel to read. I, like many other entirely reasonable players, bought this game largely for the framework given the immensely huge success of the last framework from the last team and less so for the novel.
On a totally unrelated note, green is a much more rich and fun colour than red. I don't know how you could disagree with that. Green has St. Patty's Day and is the colour of money. The 5% Red has doesn't magically make it acquire greater very subjective properties.
Edit: Your argument, of course, also completely ignores the relationship between quality of gameplay and %. Given what I'm looking for, I often have a much higher quality of gameplay with MP than SP. If you're looking for raw, ridiculously arbitrary %s, why not buy games exclusively for the time/$$ of their campaign length?
Since you compared SP to a novel, and MP to a "framework", I think you just made my point. It's empty, an abstraction.
I'm not using subjectivity in my argument, which you seem to have only just now realized somehow. I'm speaking purely from a static number of content, and overall effort put forth into the product. SP is the focus of the game. It is where the brunt of all content exists, was placed, and centered upon. You can flip my arguments around and twist them all you like, but facts are facts. I'm not talking about any other game, or as if games are to be judged based on how large their file sizes are. I'm talking purely objectively that SP has more content than MP, and to bash the entire game purely because you have bad luck with the game crashing in MP, as if it was now a waste of your 60 bucks because you can't play MP adequately, is frankly poor and you are then missing pretty much the entire picture.
Since you compared SP to a novel, and MP to a "framework", I think you just made my point. It's empty, an abstraction.
I'm not using subjectivity in my argument, which you seem to have only just now realized somehow. I'm speaking purely from a static number of content, and overall effort put forth into the product. SP is the focus of the game. It is where the brunt of all content exists, was placed, and centered upon. You can flip my arguments around and twist them all you like, but facts are facts. I'm not talking about any other game, or as if games are to be judged based on how large their file sizes are. I'm talking purely objectively that SP has more content than MP, and to bash the entire game purely because you have bad luck with the game crashing in MP, as if it was now a waste of your 60 bucks because you can't play MP adequately, is frankly poor and you are then missing pretty much the entire picture.
A framework means emptiness to you? Does that mean every sport ever is entirely empty? And did you write the hourly paychecks for the various teams? If so, I'll cede this particular tangential point. For that matter, do you view the "content" of a game solely by how many hours the dev team put into it? I'm arguing that ideas and terms onto which you anchor your #s are entirely subjective and arbitrary. As arbitrary as me claiming MP has 4x the content as SP because it has 4x the people you interact with. Any person with any stat experience ever could tell you that #s may be #s...but how you choose the #s is where all the subjective stuff happens.
Let me ask you a question. Which of these two has more content: Soccer or Pride and Prejudice?
And if he bought the game for MP and he can't play MP, then his money is wasted. We can argue whether or not it was a prudent investment in the first place if he only wanted MP, but that's not really the point. It's not like he could buy MP and SP separately--they were a bundled deal. If he bought the package for one part of it specifically and that one part doesn't work, then it sucks to be him no questions asked.
A framework means emptiness to you? Does that mean every sport ever is entirely empty? And did you write the hourly paychecks for the various teams? If so, I'll cede this particular point. For that matter, do you view the "content" of a game solely by how many hours the dev team put into it? I'm arguing that ideas and terms onto which you anchor your #s are entirely subjective and arbitrary. As arbitrary as me claiming MP has 4x the content as SP because it has 4x the people you interact with. Any person with any stat experience ever could tell you that #s may be #s...but how you choose the #s is where all the subjective stuff happens.
Let me ask you a question. Which of these two has more content: Soccer or Pride and Prejudice?
And if he bought the game for MP and he can't play MP, then his money is wasted. We can argue whether or not it was a prudent investment in the first place if he only wanted MP, but that's not really the point. It's not like he could buy MP and SP separately--they were a bundled deal. If he bought the package for one part of it specifically and that one part doesn't work, then it sucks to be him no questions asked.
Yea, sure, I'll say that sports are empty.
For content, well let's look. we have the entirety of all the zones of SP, all the voice work, all the cutscenes, all the story and plot, the rich detailed textures and graphics, and it goes on and on. Remember, I've yet to even hit act 3 yet, and I've done over 120+ hours in SP. There is still more content for me to experience, as in new story and plot developments, dungeons, companion quests, dialogue etc.
MP has... 3 zones which appear to be modified dungeons taken straight from SP, rearranged randomly. 3 types of enemies. Roughly 20 minute dungeon crawls, ending in killing a boss. The only thing really going for MP is the number of classes, but even then they aren't particularly new, just a bunch of abilities and passives taken from multiple specs and trees combined into new entire classes. Keeper for instance is a weird combo of abilities and passives from Knight-Enchanter, Rift-Mage, Spirit and Lightning trees. Admittedly MP does have content not present in SP though, namely the class banter and the class models. Everything else though, really just taken from SP. You could argue the presence of 3 other players makes it different, but it's still a 4 person party in SP or MP, just the AI is a bit more stupid, or smarter. Also maybe I'm seeing things but I swear MP has worse graphics.
Now I'll agree with you here: It sucks to be him. Hopefully the patches start coming soon.
Yea, sure, I'll say that sports are empty.
For content, well let's look. we have the entirety of all the zones of SP, all the voice work, all the cutscenes, all the story and plot, the rich detailed textures and graphics, and it goes on and on. Remember, I've yet to even hit act 3 yet, and I've done over 120+ hours in SP. There is still more content for me to experience, as in new story and plot developments, dungeons, companion quests, dialogue etc.
MP has... 3 zones which appear to be modified dungeons taken straight from SP, rearranged randomly. 3 types of enemies. Roughly 20 minute dungeon crawls, ending in killing a boss. The only thing really going for MP is the number of classes, but even then they aren't particularly new, just a bunch of abilities and passives taken from multiple specs and trees combined into new entire classes. Keeper for instance is a weird combo of abilities and passives from Knight-Enchanter, Rift-Mage, Spirit and Lightning trees. Admittedly MP does have content not present in SP though, namely the class banter and the class models. Everything else though, really just taken from SP. You could argue the presence of 3 other players makes it different, but it's still a 4 person party in SP or MP, just the AI is a bit more stupid, or smarter. Also maybe I'm seeing things but I swear MP has worse graphics.
Now I'll agree with you here: It sucks to be him. Hopefully the patches start coming soon.
If you're going to say that sports (framework) have less content than a novel (campaign), then it's clear you'll gladly compare the incomparable for the sake of framing your opinion as superior. MP content is different from SP content and it's graded differently. You could argue that one is better done in its genre than the other--which really is the argument you should be taking here rather than insisting on this psuedostatistical abomination--but that's apparently an entirely separate discussion.
The fact of the matter is that many, many of us here looked at the MP content with gleams in our eyes and that's why we're here. Pulling #s out of a hat about...I don't even know what anymore doesn't really change that. And really isn't relevant at all to this thread. All that matters is it sucks to be him and he can't play the game he thought he was paying for.
Killsion, much of the confusion you have would be fixed if you ever played ME3MP. The game had about 30 different maps by the time they stopped supporting it, so your argument that people buying DA3 for the MP only got it to play a 5% portion of the game doesn't make sense to people who had experience with ME3MP. ME3MP had several times more replayability than the single player mode, and imo had much work and content put into it. It also had dozens of weapon upgrades, dozens of weapons, many races and classes, and really quite a lot of content for a FPS.
You criticize DA3MP as it is right now and calling us wrong for expecting much from it, but as the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20. And anyway, I still disagree that DA3MP is only 5% of the game while the single player game is 95%, because the single player game has worse writing than a 12 year old fanfic and controls that broke the dreams of a disabled person (inquisition pc review on amazon if you want to read, have a box of kleenex ready) and you would have to pay me to play it. The only enjoyment I got out of single player is making clowns in the character creation screen, and I knew that would be about it, so put all my hopes in the MP being good.
It comes across highly unusual to me, and to base the worth of the game entirely on MP, which constitutes, what, 5% of the game? Seems rather poor.
Killsion, much of the confusion you have would be fixed if you ever played ME3MP. The game had about 30 different maps by the time they stopped supporting it, so your argument that people buying DA3 for the MP only got it to play a 5% portion of the game doesn't make sense to people who had experience with ME3MP. ME3MP had several times more replayability than the single player mode, and imo had much work and content put into it. It also had dozens of weapon upgrades, dozens of weapons, many races and classes, and really quite a lot of content for a FPS.
You criticize DA3MP as it is right now and calling us wrong for expecting much from it, but as the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20. And anyway, I still disagree that DA3MP is only 5% of the game while the single player game is 95%, because the single player game has worse writing than a 12 year old fanfic and controls that broke the dreams of a disabled person (inquisition pc review on amazon if you want to read, have a box of kleenex ready) and you would have to pay me to play it. The only enjoyment I got out of single player is making clowns in the character creation screen, and I knew that would be about it, so put all my hopes in the MP being good.
You're right I never played ME3MP, but you are speaking of the future. I'm speaking of the present. Could DAMP be super awesome, and have lots of the issues fixed, and a ton of effort, support, and content added? Absolutely, and I welcome that immensely. But right now? 3 weeks into launch, everyone is starving on a lack of content, a horrible loot/weapon bottleneck, and a lack of a patch fixing anything broken, MP or SP.
Now I won't disagree with you, Bioware aren't the best writers anymore, and the SP certainly has it's issues, controls included, but I fail to see how a disabled persons disabilities somehow makes it fine for you to play MP but not SP. It'd make more sense if you just boycotted the game for whatever reason.
I'm not arguing about the future. I'm arguing about your claim that people were wrong to have the expectations we did for DA3MP.
As for the amazon reviewer I was talking, what I meant was the controls are so bad in SP that it is causing issues for everyone. DA3MP is playable because the first thing I did was remap everything to esdf (like wasd), and use a macro for holding down right mouse button for me, so that DA3MP handles much more like a FPS than an RPG game. There are actually menus and "tactical view" (worst implementation of... something weird... that I've ever seen) in DA3SP that you sometimes have to access dozens of times an hour, so trying to play it like a FPS ain't gonna work. I'm not gonna get brain damage from the retarded story or carpal tunnel syndrome from the controls trying to play through DA3SP so it is near worthless to me as ME3SP is worthless to many people (if only because the ending was so bad), whereas ME3MP gave many people many hundreds of pain-free hours of fun.
I'm not arguing about the future. I'm arguing about your claim that people were wrong to have the expectations we did for DA3MP.
As for the amazon reviewer I was talking, what I meant was the controls are so bad in SP that it is causing issues for everyone. DA3MP is playable because the first thing I did was remap everything to esdf (like wasd), and use a macro for holding down right mouse button for me, so that DA3MP handles much more like a FPS than an RPG game. There are actually menus and "tactical view" (worst implementation of... something weird... that I've ever seen) in DA3SP that you sometimes have to access dozens of times an hour, so trying to play it like a FPS ain't gonna work. I'm not gonna get brain damage from the retarded story or carpal tunnel syndrome from the controls trying to play through DA3SP so it is near worthless to me as ME3SP is worthless to many people (if only because the ending was so bad), whereas ME3MP gave many people many hundreds of pain-free hours of fun.
This just confuses me, but then again I haven't really played a FPS in many years. PC controls have their problems, and controller does seem to be the better option, but I get by just fine with PC controls, the trick is mostly to just use the mouse like you would an MMO, to turn or position gtaoes., click dialogue boxes, etc.
If what you say is true, and that you can rebind movement in MP, but not SP, then that is pretty dumb certainly, and hopefully will get fixed. Tactical view is pretty worthless in SP, it is far too close, and unwieldly to really function at all, but you can get by just fine with TPS action mode. Again, hopefully a patch fixes these issues.
Notice though, at the end of the day, it all needs a patch, badly.
Also just because ME3MP ended on such a high note doesn't mean DA3MP would start at that same level. Something tells me ME3MP had a rocky start too, but maybe I'm wrong.
You can map keys and use right mouse button macro in SP, but the thing is, it doesn't play well with constantly going between menus, "tactical view", and freelook. After remapping in MP you are constantly in freelook and have no need to access any menus or use tactical, but you have to go into freelook by either by ruining your hand holding down the right mouse button or using a macro to hold it down for you.
If they can bring the controls at least up to DA2 level, then I might actually play the SP, but probably with everyone muted and captions off.
Have any of you whiners actually tried the fixes posted by EA? Port forwarding and updating graphics drivers fixes the problems for the vast majority of players. If it doesn't fix your connections issues, your PC is probably well under minimum specs. But please, feel free to continue your ****** session.
I keep seeing people say they bought it because they loved ME3's multiplayer, but do people realize that ME3's multiplayer is only at the point it is because of a lot of time spent patching and adding content?
It was pretty terrible on release.
I keep seeing people say they bought it because they loved ME3's multiplayer, but do people realize that ME3's multiplayer is only at the point it is because of a lot of time spent patching and adding content?
It was pretty terrible on release.
It was awesome on release.
It was awesome on release.
And getting the same character cards infinitely sucked.
Still better than what we have here. In my experience ME3 didn't crash every 5 games and I actually could play with people on my friend list instead of only 1/3 of them.
I have noticed that mostly PC players are the ones who are complaining about all of these performance issues... As usual. Relax and wait for a least patch 1 before you start calling MP horrible.
De_dust? Who cares? Anyone remember DM4 or Lost Temple? 
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