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[dragonflight288]

A good man doesn't commit regicide, sacrifice all the men he did at Ostagar leaving Ferelden unable to combat the blight and support Arl Howe's actions, even in The Stolen Throne he performed some unsavoury acts. Loghain remains dead from the Landsmeet in all my play throughs.

 

Don't remember the exact dialogue, but it went something like this.

 

Solas: I dreamt at Ostagar. I saw the Hero of Ferelden and Alistair light the beacon. I saw the retreat.

Inquisitor: What really happened?

Solas: Hard to say. In the Fade, spirits reflect the emotions they perceived happened. I saw great warriors fighting to the last while a power-mad general gleefully left them to die. Then it changes and I see a torn veteran deciding to save as many men as he could in an unwinnable battle. 

Inquisitor: So you don't know which is real?

Solas: It's the Fade, they're all real. 

 

Also the quartermaster at Haven confirms that had Loghain charged to flank the darkspawn, they would've been flanked in return. 

 

Loghain isn't a one-note villain or great criminal mastermind. He's a delightfully complex character with many facets to him. It's this complexity that allows so many of us to be split on how we view him, but for me, I see a man who let paranoia get to him in Origins, and a man who has a lot to atone for, selling elves into slavery, poisoning a fellow noble by hiring a blood mage, but I feel that his time as a Warden has more than made up for his past wrongs, and he truly is a hero in Inquisition. 

[Kath]

You don't have to! The best ending is to harden Alistair, tell him to marry Anora and shut up, and recruit Loghain. Alistair is mad at you, but then this is pretty much promptly forgotten in awakening onward.

 

UGH I FORGOT YOU COULD DO THIS. Thank you! 

 

Welp. Time to do a new Origins play-through...

[TK514]

I will eventually have a worldstate where he makes it out of the Fade, but for now, I just like my Hawke more.

[Lavaeolus]

UGH I FORGOT YOU COULD DO THIS. Thank you! 
 
Welp. Time to do a new Origins play-through...

Yeah, but you have to make Loghain Alistair's father-in-law.

I think he might prefer to be a purposeless drunk.

[Monica21]

Don't remember the exact dialogue, but it went something like this.

 

Solas: I dreamt at Ostagar. I saw the Hero of Ferelden and Alistair light the beacon. I saw the retreat.

Inquisitor: What really happened?

Solas: Hard to say. In the Fade, spirits reflect the emotions they perceived happened. I saw great warriors fighting to the last while a power-mad general gleefully left them to die. Then it changes and I see a torn veteran deciding to save as many men as he could in an unwinnable battle. 

Inquisitor: So you don't know which is real?

Solas: It's the Fade, they're all real. 

 

Also the quartermaster at Haven confirms that had Loghain charged to flank the darkspawn, they would've been flanked in return. 

 

I love that dialogue with Solas because it reflects (and neatly condenses) what's already been said multiple times on the forums. And I think the quartermaster's comment is interesting because she contradicts what Aveline says when you first meet her. Loghain is not simply a one-note villain. You could try to make him one, but then you'd be willfully ignoring everything you're presented with.

[Kath]

Yeah, but you have to make Loghain Alistair's father-in-law.

I think he might prefer to be a purposeless drunk.

 

Who doesn't hate their in-laws? 

 

Nah, I don't know if Alistair could EVER forgive Loghain, but perhaps (even though he'd never admit it) one day he could understand why Loghain did what he did. I think becoming King would give Alistair a lot more insight on certain things than he had before. Making big decisions that effect more than just your personal feelings, decisions that effect the entire country.

 

Sadly, I don't doubt there was a period of time where Alistair gave up and tried to be a drunk King, letting Anora handle things, but Anora would have none of his moping. I bet she whipped him into shape good. 

[Mims]

I can never feel too bad about Alistair getting mad at me. Yes, Loghain did some awful things. But so did Duncan. 

[Costin_Razvan]

Well with Loghain moving to the Anderfels and the next game most likely being set in the North then well you know who will be waiting for you on Griffon's back when the Inquisition invades Tevinter.

 

I don't blame Loghain for anything he did in Origins but I found it endlessly amusing to see him become Warden Commander of Orlais.

[Brentalfan724]

In Loghain We Trust

[Jaison1986]

Well with Loghain moving to the Anderfels and the next game most likely being set in the North then well you know who will be waiting for you on Griffon's back when the Inquisition invades Tevinter.

 

I don't blame Loghain for anything he did in Origins but I found it endlessly amusing to see him become Warden Commander of Orlais.

 

Just pray the first warden isn't like Cailan. Once was enough.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Just pray the first warden isn't like Cailan. Once was enough.

Oh god. No...just no. I don't want to see another idiot with power playing the knight in a shiny armor seeking glory instead of doing his job properly. 

 

I can never feel too bad about Alistair getting mad at me. 

To be fair Alistair throw a hissy fist, and the Warden doesn't owe him anything....it's look more like Alistair betraying the Warden IMO, and the irony is he defy Duncan's wish and spit on his memories when he leave the party.

[RobRam10]

I killed Loghain.

And have no regrets.

Spoiler

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I killed Loghain.

And have no regrets.

Spoiler

Spoiler

[Bugsie]

The great thing about DA:I is that it has me questioning the oversimplified view of good and evil I took with me into DA:O. I have only ever killed Loghain, and I've never hardened Alistair, but it's obvious it's worth investigating these things further and benefit from the story outcomes.

[CreepingShadow]

To be fair Alistair throw a hissy fist, and the Warden doesn't owe him anything....it's look more like Alistair betraying the Warden IMO, and the irony is he defy Duncan's wish and spit on his memories when he leave the party.

Alistair does betray you, and everything the Warden's stand for (second chances). He leaves you to deal with the Archdemon alone knowing that you need all the Wardens you can get.

 

The most petty, actually downright despicable thing he does, is if your Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice, He REFUSES to give the eulogy at your funeral, even though you may have been best friends, even lovers, instead handing it over to Anora a near stranger to you. His bitterness about you giving a man another chance continues even after you're gone.

 

I love Alistair don't get me wrong but what a baby!

[TEWR]

In DAO, Loghain can be executed or recruited. Then he can be sacrificed or not.

Now, in DAI, he can be left in the Fade or pulled out of it.

 

I think it's safe to say that no other character in the Dragon Age franchise braved so many opportunities for demise while having the possibility of emerging unscathed if the player is so inclined.

Some may say that he deserved to die for his crimes as regent but we reject that. Others may claim it is only fitting that he be sacrificed to save his beloved homeland but we know that is not necessary.

And now, others will probably defend that Loghain has lived a long and interesting life. That it is time to pass the torch to a younger generation. But we say no!

 

This is a thread for those who, at every opportunity, always spare Loghain, the toughest son of a ****** in Thedas. He will outlast the Dragon Age!

 

That which is Loghain may never die. But rise again, harder and stronger.

 

I just reject the decision altogether. Seemed like an arbitrary choice for a person who can move between the Fade and the physical world at will to make. I can't bear to lose either Tobias Hawke or Loghain. Though my saving the two of them in my headcanon comes with its own costs as well.

[Augustei]

Ugh what is it about Logain? Why do people admire that sorry sack of sh** after everything he did to the wardens. I'm sorry but Alistair couldn't have said it better at the Landsmeet. Who in their right fu**Ing mind would exile Alistair someone who was with you from THE BEGINNING and replace him with Logain who numerously tried to have you killed, betrayed his King and abandoned the battlefield, I believe that's called desertion, leaving hundreds of people including the King to die. Even locked away his own daughter and seized the throne for himself. He despises the grey wardens all through origins and yet if you do recruit him, in inquisition he acts like he's ssoooo dedicated to the grey wardens, oh gee Logain nice to see your holding the wardens in such high regard now. *rolls eyes at Logain* too each his own I guess but I will NEVER understand why anyone would choose him over Alistair. Just mind boggles me.

I didn't Exile Alistair, I had him executed. He abandoned a lost battle, the darkspawn had already broken through the Ferelden ranks before you even crossed the bridge to Ostagar you'll note, it took at least an hour to get to the top of that tower so had Loghain charged all it would have resulted in would be the complete loss of the army, instead he withdrew and saved what remained of it. Cailan was an idiot that not only was going to sell Ferelden sovereignty to Orlais, but also placed all the wardens and himself on the bloody frontlines, his death was pretty much a certainty.

He didn't lock away his daughter, Howe did. He had reason not to trust the wardens, they are an Orlesian puppet order as evidence by the fact that Celene refuses to give you any more than 12 wardens in Awakening despite the Orlesian Warden wanting to send more, then theres the whole fact The Old Wardens swore allegence to Emperor Drakon and helped spread the Orlesian chantry to the north. Loghain would be a fool to trust a foreign order known to be the ****** of Fereldens enemy and a superpower compared to the backwater Ferelden who had until recently been occupying said country. And considering nobody but the wardens knows of their necessity in defeating the blight since the wardens are secretive idiots then he had no reason not to use them as a scapegoat.

Alistair throws a hissy fit in front of the whole landsmeet because you wont kill a skilled general in the middle of a war in front of his own daughter, and despite how inpolitic it is considering that despite it all, He is still much loved by the people - as evidenced by the gossiper commoners and the rumors.
Then Alistair threatens to desert the wardens in the middle of a blight, showing that he is a selfish ****, so of course I'm going to support Loghain over that idiot Alistair
 

Even if it weren't, Loghain not only did NOT punish that murderer, he rewarded him, and opened up a huge series of abuses, torture, and theft from the royal treasury in a time of Blight.

 

So what would you have him do? Attack and make an enemy of the man currently in control of the entire north of Ferelden? Attack the man that already took control of Denerim, Amaranthine, and Highever while fighting a civil war and blight? Yeah okay that would have been a real smart move....... Damn that was dumb allying with the most powerful noble in the country right? And Lucky Loghain has that legendary foresight in knowing if a noble will steal from the treasury in the future......


 

[Shadow Fox]

You don't choose Loghain over Alistair, Loghain surrenders, and Alistair, throws a childlike temper tantrum and demands you kill him, and storms off if you don't. I don't see how it's Loghain's fault that Alistair over idealizes Duncan and the Wardens (apparently he didn't know Duncan was a common street thug, who was conscripted after killing the Warden Commander's fiance).

 

It's not really that hard to see why people don't want to kill a revered national hero, who poses no threat to you anymore, in front of his daughter. Also if Alistair and Anora are engaged, killing your future father-in-law isn't exactly the best way to start a marriage.

In fairness though who here would work with a guy who abandoned his friends and father figure to death,framed you and said friends of murdering a ruler and spent the last few months making your life hell?

 

Not many I'd reckon.

 

*Also Alistair never mentions Duncan at the Landsmeet he mentions Loghain leaving the Wardens to die,torturing Riordan,poisoning the Arl and hunting him and the Warden down like animals  all things he did and refuses to accept him as a comrade.*

[Costin_Razvan]

 Also Alistair never mentions Duncan at the Landsmeet

He does in point of fact mention Duncan.
 

[hong]

I always preserve Loghain.

Spoiler

in formaldehyde.

[dragonflight288]

He does in point of fact mention Duncan.
 

 

So true.

 

If Alistair duels Loghain and wins, it goes like this.

 

Loghain: I yield. I see there is some of Maric's strength in you after all.

Alistair: Forget Maric, this is for Duncan!

[Estelindis]

In DAO, Loghain can be executed or recruited. Then he can be sacrificed or not.

Now, in DAI, he can be left in the Fade or pulled out of it.

 

I think it's safe to say that no other character in the Dragon Age franchise braved so many opportunities for demise while having the possibility of emerging unscathed if the player is so inclined.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Alistair has just as many opportunities for death.  Alistair can be executed after the Landsmeet (though I could never do that!), can die killing the archdemon, or can be left in the Fade - or survive all these things.

 

Personally, though, I find it a bit stranger for Loghain to survive all that.  He has "redemption by death" written all over his character.  For him to keep surviving at the expense of others actually feels like a bit of a slap in the face for him.  I don't think it's what he wants.

[Blackstork]

"Loghain fought well and mourns Hawke" crew checking in.

Sorry Hawke. Loghain is a beast and caused less mess than you.

I hope King Alistair won't be so upset.

[TheJediSaint]

Is it hard to embalm a headless corpse?