82 réponses à ce sujet

[Kinsz]

Well to me its like saying that Mass Effect is meant to be played (in ME3) as a Genophage FULL (Wrex + Eve + Mordin) Curer + Rannoch Peace (especially since I think that was debated on by the devs) + Synthesis. I mean yeah, it is there, but you'll certainly find that most of the core content does not encourage such a path, but only facilitates it, and then with more extra and optional content and choices that continue to support it - but I still wouldn't call it 'central'.

 

Heck, a player could easily just see Destroy and Control in front of Shepard, with no Synthesis available, and just shrug at the existence of the beam there. "Oh I guess that's where the Control or Destroy signal comes out of." Doesn't mean the path is invalid - just that it doesn't has as much support. That's how I see the Dalish Elf (Female?) storyline. Its there, its important, its cool, but not necessary to the foundations of the overall game.

 

Yea , this just means that Bioware did a good job at fleshing out the different races we could play as.

[Starki113r]

The only race that feels pointless are the Dwarves.

 

As usual.

[Heimdall]

Well it could also be that the elven gods don't even consider themselves really 'elven', only that the elves are 'their people' (key point being 'their'). That all mythologies have it right, to an extent, but still are not the whole picture. Andrastan and Tevinter and Dwarven and heck, Qun stuff could fill in all those other blanks if we piece the mythologies together into something that may be more factual (or at least believably theoretical).

Oh, I love doing that

 

Still trying to figure out how the Qunari fit in though.

[Ennai and 54 others]

Dalish inquisitor is probably the most accomplished dalish yet,.we find 4 major elven artifacts,an elven sacred site (skyhold) and actual ancient elves.We discover that humans aren't to blame for everything,and that vallasilin are not a good thing.

Puts merril to shame.

[Ashagar]

It seemed to me on the contrary to be tailor made for a human female character at first given the heavy Andrestian tones though out in the story though I am having a enjoyable run on my second playthough as a male dwarf warrior who believes in the stone.

[Kinsz]

To be fair, Solas does remark that the dalish Inquisitor's clan was unusual in caring enough about human affairs to send anyone.

I'm aware, still doesnt mean it made as much sense as a human being there at the conclave. Anyways there is no evidence of which race is the canon race , you could certainly make an argument that a lot of things about the lore points to an elven Inquisitor just as someone else could say that the Herald thing points to a human or the fact that everything pre release portrayed the inquisitor as a human , the trailers are a good example ( though they dont determine whats canon ).

[jellobell]

I'm aware, still doesnt mean it made as much sense as a human being there at the conclave. Anyways there is no evidence of which race is the canon race , you could certainly make an argument that a lot of things about the lore points to an elven Inquisitor just as someone else could say that the Herald thing points to a human or the fact that everything pre release portrayed the inquisitor as a human , the trailers are a good example ( though they dont determine whats canon ).

Yeah, trailers don't mean a lot. Those are made by marketing, not the writers.

 

And the story starts out very human-focused, but the most intriguing parts of the game are all centered around elves. And I don't think comparing it to mass effect and the protheans works, because you can't play as a prothean. That's the point. They are Extinct Advanced Alien Species. But to an elf, all of the revelations about the ancient elves have a lot more weight than they would for a human or a dwarf or a qunari. For them, it's very personal. That's why I felt so much more invested during my elf playthrough.

 

Of course, the story beats that come before are also personal if you believe in the maker, or if you're a mage dealing with the mage rebellion. But there really wasn't a ton about the maker in the game, other than the revelations that Cory was one of the original magisters (and we already knew that from DA2). The Andrastian stuff felt distant while the elf stuff felt immediate and important.

[Ashagar]

I think that depended how and what you played on wither the Andrastian stuff was distant during the story.

[jellobell]

I think that depended how and what you played on wither the Andrastian stuff was distant during the story.

True. I'm just talking about my own experience. I don't think Bioware set out to make the game elf-centric. However, I found that playing Inquisition as an elf resulted in an atypical and yet extremely meaningful story. I really liked how a lot of content was tailored to them, rather than the standard "human saves the world" story. 

[Kinsz]

Yeah, trailers don't mean a lot. Those are made by marketing, not the writers.

 

And the story starts out very human-focused, but the most intriguing parts of the game are all centered around elves. And I don't think comparing it to mass effect and the protheans works, because you can't play as a prothean. That's the point. They are Extinct Advanced Alien Species. But to an elf, all of the revelations about the ancient elves have a lot more weight than they would for a human or a dwarf or a qunari. For them, it's very personal. That's why I felt so much more invested during my elf playthrough.

 

Of course, the story beats that come before are also personal if you believe in the maker, or if you're a mage dealing with the mage rebellion. But there really wasn't a ton about the maker in the game, other than the revelations that Cory was one of the original magisters (and we already knew that from DA2). The Andrastian stuff felt distant while the elf stuff felt immediate and important.

Protheans arent extinct but thats another story for another day but i do get what you are saying , however one might argue that the arlathan elves have almost nothing in common with your Dalish elf ( Solas hints at that as does Abelas ) , your party reaction to them when you first go to the Arbor wild was " what were those ? elves ? i have never elves like that before ".

 

As i said there isnt any possible way of proving what race is canon here. both humans and elves have lot going for them , the elves stuff werent immediate as you claim until much later in the game when Cory started looking for elven artifacts and you head to Mythal's temple as a consequence.

[Tamyn]

I would have felt more special as a Dalish elf if she had acted like she knew anything about her own gods (even how to pronounce their names, sheesh) in the elven temple and if she hadn't been called shemlen by another elf. She needs Morrigan to translate the elven language for her? Really??

[Kinsz]

I would have felt more special as a Dalish elf if she had acted like she knew anything about her own gods (even how to pronounce their names, sheesh) in the elven temple and if she hadn't been called shemlen by another elf. She needs Morrigan to translate the elven language for her? Really??

 

I think that was a derp moment on BW's part lol , i had solas in my party yet they had Morrigan who was struggling with the language translate.

[Sasie]

The game feels a bit bipolar to me. Like there is a before and after Skyhold. Before Skyhold everything resolves around the herald of Andraste title and it seems to be the justification they build their entire Inquisition around. The Divine's order to have it made more or less only comes up once or twice and it's the Herald thing the advisors push in the face of everyone else.

Then there is after Skyhold. Now we are the Inquisitor and while people still feel we are blessed people call us the Inquisitor now and the herald of Andraste title comes up less and less. It doesn't go away but I did feel like it became less important. Especially after dealing with the wardens and regaining our memories.

Honestly my human mage who did try to embrace the idea of being the chosen one felt like she had a solid start but was starting to slip a bit on the religious themes toward the second half of the game, my dalish spent the first half of the game denying she was a follower of Andraste and toward the end she came into her own when all the elvish themes grew stronger. Of the two I prefer the dalish and found her story to be better.

There is a bit of a split between them in my opinion and it seems like Bioware used the Herald themes to set everything up but once we got going as Inquisition they were happy to let us lead an organisation on our own and the religious aspects became less important. Considering leading the Inquisition is what the game was all about I prefer the story that ends on a strong side rather then the one who has a brilliant start. Especially since the dalish doesn't have a bad start and is allowed to express how silly the people are for jumping to conclusions. 

[DemGeth]

Canon play thru?

Phft that's my dagger dwarf rogue same as its been since da:o.

Were taking this mother over.

[jellobell]

however one might argue that the arlathan elves have almost nothing in common with your Dalish elf ( Solas hints at that as does Abelas ) , your party reaction to them when you first go to the Arbor wild was "

And that's one of the parts I found so interesting! The Dalish claim kinship with the ancient elves as a central part of their identity, and yet over the course of the game the dalish inquisitor has that assumption stripped away. However, you also have the opportunity to show Solas through your actions that modern elves may not have fallen so far as he thought at first.

 

As i said there isnt any possible way of proving what race is canon here. both humans and elves have lot going for them , the elves stuff werent immediate as you claim until much later in the game when Cory started looking for elven artifacts and you head to Mythal's temple as a consequence.

Thinking about it in terms of 'canon' is the wrong way to go about it, imo. Bioware has never come out and said that one way to play is more canon than another. That would defeat the purpose of choice in their games. The right way to play is whatever is right for you. I'm talking about how, to my surprise (because I thought a human inquisitor would feel most natural), a female dalish mage inquisitor had the most compelling story for me.

[Kinsz]

And that's one of the parts I found so interesting! The Dalish claim kinship with the ancient elves as a central part of their identity, and yet over the course of the game the dalish inquisitor has that assumption stripped away. And yet, you also have the opportunity to show Solas through your actions that modern elves may not have fallen so far as he thought at first.

 

Thinking about it in terms of 'canon' is the wrong way to go about it, imo. Bioware has never come out and said that one way to play is more canon than another. That would defeat the purpose of choice in their games. The right way to play is whatever is right for you. I'm talking about how, to my surprise (because I thought a human inquisitor would feel most natural), a female dalish mage inquisitor had the most compelling story for me.

Ah i see what you mean then , yes the Dalish elf Inquisitor fits indeed , only one that seemed an afterthought was the dwarf one .....well i guess the Qunari one as well.

[Sasie]

I would have felt more special as a Dalish elf if she had acted like she knew anything about her own gods (even how to pronounce their names, sheesh) in the elven temple and if she hadn't been called shemlen by another elf. She needs Morrigan to translate the elven language for her? Really??

The dalish can barely speak their own language outside of a few phrases and words. For a dalish hunter who is not even in training to become the next keeper I imagine their knowledge about elven writing is limiting. Also imagine how a language change with time and then try to read what was written 1000 years ago by a native speaker who presume everyone will know what they speak of. I imagine a dalish keeper would struggle with the Temple of Mythal. 

[SwobyJ]

The only race that feels pointless are the Dwarves.

 

As usual.

 

I didn't see Dwarves as pointless in DA:O. A couple of the biggest areas of the games centered on them, and the Blight/Darkspawn highly involve them, even if at a more basic level than the magical concepts in the lore.

 

DAO may have still been a more Human centric game, but I'd say Dwarves were more important in it than Elves.

 

Every other species takes a back seat in DA2, and Dwarves and Qunari have a relative lack of importance in DAI, but I personally don't need them to all be important at the same time. The rise of Elven importance gives me hope for the others, and heck, I would typically find both Elves and Dwarves boring in fantasy worlds.

[jellobell]

The game feels a bit bipolar to me. Like there is a before and after Skyhold. Before Skyhold everything resolves around the herald of Andraste title and it seems to be the justification they build their entire Inquisition around. The Divine's order to have it made more or less only comes up once or twice and it's the Herald thing the advisors push in the face of everyone else.

Then there is after Skyhold. Now we are the Inquisitor and while people still feel we are blessed people call us the Inquisitor now and the herald of Andraste title comes up less and less. It doesn't go away but I did feel like it became less important. Especially after dealing with the wardens and regaining our memories.

Honestly my human mage who did try to embrace the idea of being the chosen one felt like she had a solid start but was starting to slip a bit on the religious themes toward the second half of the game, my dalish spent the first half of the game denying she was a follower of Andraste and toward the end she came into her own when all the elvish themes grew stronger. Of the two I prefer the dalish and found her story to be better.

There is a bit of a split between them in my opinion and it seems like Bioware used the Herald themes to set everything up but once we got going as Inquisition they were happy to let us lead an organisation on our own and the religious aspects became less important. Considering leading the Inquisition is what the game was all about I prefer the story that ends on a strong side rather then the one who has a brilliant start. Especially since the dalish doesn't have a bad start and is allowed to express how silly the people are for jumping to conclusions. 

Exactly. The Dalish story ended on a high note (sort of), especially after that stinger after the credits. It leaves you thinking about all of the little hints that you got during the game, and makes you excited to see more.

[SwobyJ]

Dalish inquisitor is probably the most accomplished dalish yet,.we find 4 elven artifacts,an elven sacred site (skyhold) and actual ancient elves.we discover that humans aren't to blame for everything,and that vallasilin are not a good thing.

Puts merril to shame.

 

Merrill wasn't a total waste. She did have enough good to her that she was correct that ancient elven artifacts were important and that the dalish shouldn't just keep wandering forever without improving themselves.

 

She just sucked at it in DA2. Well okay, DA2 is full of people sucking at their aspirational at things. Heck, same with the Mass Effect games so far. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried.

[dragondreamer]

The Dalish have a limited understanding of the elvish language.  Most elven relics and records were taken by the Chantry and locked away.  Back in Witch Hunt, Finn knew more elvish than Ariane and her Keeper did.  DA:I seems to underscore this with the revised Elven Gods codexes being taken from human scholars.  Everything we had until now came from Dalish stories.  Morrigan was raised by Flemeth, so it's more than understandable now that she probably has a greater knowledge of old elven language than most Dalish.

 

On the subject of ancient elves: Felassan was right about them being bigger than modern elves.

[Heimdall]

Merrill wasn't a total waste. She did have enough good to her that she was correct that ancient elven artifacts were important and that the dalish shouldn't just keep wandering forever without improving themselves.

Actually the thing I find amusing about Merrill's story after DAI is that Eluvians really can link to the Fade. So Marethari might actually have been right about the demon being able to use it to escape. (I just remember a lot of heated arguments calling Marethari an idiot on the grounds that there was no proof Eluvians can act as a portal to the Fade)

[jellobell]

On the subject of ancient elves: Felassan was right about them being bigger than modern elves.

No kidding. Just look at how broad Solas's shoulders are compared to the male elf inquisitor model. I wonder if there's a story explanation for the change.

[Chuvvy]

If you ignore all the stuff about the chantry, andraste, what cory says about the maker, the fact that you're a religious figure in a human religion, the orlisian nobility, and all the other aspects of why being a human is centric to this game, yeah, maybe. It doesn't become "important" until you're almost done with he game, the elven lore stuff only comes in heavy in the last two story missions.

 

Even then, it doesn't add much, it just shows you that, surprise, a group of people who have like eight pages on their history, some anecdotes retold for over a thousand years, and know their language at a three year old level got most of the stuff about their history wrong.

[dragondreamer]

No kidding. Just look at how broad Solas's shoulders are compared to the male elf inquisitor model. I wonder if there's a story explanation for the change.

 

And even the sentinel elves were huge next to Solas.  He said he was weakened, so maybe that has something to do with it?  He lost his Fade orb, and then it was broken.  All elves used to be connected to the Fade.  Maybe losing that connection is what resulted in the physical changes.  So many things answered leading to still more questions...