151 réponses à ce sujet

[ReinaHW]

Look, people wanted tactics, they got tactics outside of the tactical camera.  You want to explore then think ahead, know where the closest camp is, replenish often, don't get over confident.  It isn't hard to adapt.

[In Exile]

So you're saying a game where a bow rogue can solo the entire game on nightmare difficulty....needs healing?

I don't think you really understand class to class damage mitigation yet.

Every single class has the ability to mitigate damage in some form or fashion.

I can't say I felt I needed a healer at all during my DA:I run. Potions filled in the gaps where things were going south too fast for me to manage via mitigation, but mostly I was more than callable of consistently keeping my party alive in all encounters...I think I only wiped a few times through the entire game and it was just due to super lazy management on my side.

Heavy damage mitigation via additional health bars is a very atypical design for an SP RPG. Combined with the bad AI, someone who's used to old school RPGs will have a very hard time adjusting even a lower difficulty setting at first.

[Bladenite1481]

Not specifically. Knight Enchanter being the exception, I wouldn't call any of the other specialization classes fully invulnerable.

 

Reaver runs a close second to Knight Enchanter as far as survivability goes but has plenty of failure conditions depending on how you manage it. I could potentially solo a high dragon with a Reaver but it would require me to manage every single ability perfectly, keep my guard generation pretty much on cool down, and consistently be able to dragon rage my way through the dragon's guard phase to remove the armor fast enough AND not die from it by getting back kicked into the dirt before I got my ring of pain down and my devour off....but that doesn't mean that Reaver is invulnerable, its a good class with a lot of answers to dealing with combat...but it has plenty of failure conditions if not played right.

 

Simple facts are is understanding a class and playing it right and getting the results of "not dying constantly due to a lack of healers" doesn't inherently mean a class is overpowered...it means its functioning as intended...it means you're doing it right.

Its a party based game. So you have three other people in the group at all times and unless you have purposefully specced out to make the game harder then it's not going to be.  Honestly I never thought the DA series was meant to be challenging, its just not built for it.  This game would need massive AI improvements to be truly difficult and probably a complete reworking of monsters as well.

 

Anyway the healing thing. The issue to me again boils down to choice, putting healing back in the game as an optional selection does not mean you have to take it any more than you have to make your main toon a KE every time because its ez mode as they say. What it does do is give another way of mitigating damage. Barrier isn't new by the way, its always been there, it was called Force Field and had the added tactical element of having to stay still. 

 

Some people believe it or not like to play healers and watch their group to the work, that option has been removed from them. Barrier used to be just a part of what they could do, now they would literally just be barrier bots instead of supporting and healing their group. Its just another playstyle that has been removed by streamlining the classes. 

[BammBamm]

Its a party based game. So you have three other people in the group at all times and unless you have purposefully specced out to make the game harder then it's not going to be.  Honestly I never thought the DA series was meant to be challenging, its just not built for it.  This game would need massive AI improvements to be truly difficult and probably a complete reworking of monsters as well.

 

Anyway the healing thing. The issue to me again boils down to choice, putting healing back in the game as an optional selection does not mean you have to take it any more than you have to make your main toon a KE every time because its ez mode as they say. What it does do is give another way of mitigating damage. Barrier isn't new by the way, its always been there, it was called Force Field and had the added tactical element of having to stay still. 

 

Some people believe it or not like to play healers and watch their group to the work, that option has been removed from them. Barrier used to be just a part of what they could do, now they would literally just be barrier bots instead of supporting and healing their group. Its just another playstyle that has been removed by streamlining the classes. 

 

would be the case if healing would not be possible, but you can heal, just not limitless.

[Lady Mutare]

If my characters would use guard or barriers properly in combat i dont think it wouyld be an issue. butI cant get them to stay where I tell them, the ranged always move up. The mage cats whatever instead of barrier, IB doesnt use guard. Unless I micro manage the whole fight.  I do not want to micro manage. I like casual gaming.  I would like health regen back between combat at least. If I choose to play on casual and want that option, dont be busting my chops.

[BammBamm]

If my characters would use guard or barriers properly in combat i dont think it wouyld be an issue. butI cant get them to stay where I tell them, the ranged always move up. The mage cats whatever instead of barrier, IB doesnt use guard. Unless I micro manage the whole fight.  I do not want to micro manage. I like casual gaming.  I would like health regen back between combat at least. If I choose to play on casual and want that option, dont be busting my chops.

 

i cant speak for low difficulties, but it sounds its more a matter of balancing than heal spells or not. in high difficulties you have to micromanage your team and thats totally fine.

[Bladenite1481]

would be the case if healing would not be possible, but you can heal, just not limitless.

You can heal via KE, a single class with one spell that is a focus ability. How many DPS builds are there? Limited is a bit of an understatement. I find it interesting that is your defense. 

 

Again, its about choice and selection.  Giving healing does absolutely nothing to you, improves other's gaming experience and expands options. So again I will ask, what do you lose if it were re-instated?

[Bladenite1481]

i cant speak for low difficulties, but it sounds its more a matter of balancing than heal spells or not. in high difficulties you have to micromanage your team and thats totally fine.

That is fine for you, others don't want to baby sit their team. I just went solo because I don't like to play that way and I didn't have to before they took tactics away. 

[Lady Mutare]

@Bam bam I agree, but I do not want to have to micro manage. None of the other DA games required Micromanaging.  I play after work and after my household duties are done. Means maybe one to 2 hours a night. I choose to spend my free time in a computer game. I also choose to play on casual because of time restraints.  When I feel the need to get down and Dirty I'll log into my favorite MMO(Fallen Earth) and hunt down some Travelers for PVP. But in a DA game I just want casual gameplay.  And to me it means not having to micromanage the the whole fight.

[abearzi]

I for one am glad that regenerating health is gone. Passive health regen is just idiotic and an endemic cancer of modern gaming. I am also not happy to see healing magic gone as well. Particularly in a game which aspires to open world exploration. It just artificially pads out the "gameplay" by forcing returns to camp, as there aren't even any non-combat skills like DAO with herbalism or poison crafting which could be done in the field. So you fast travel back to camp, then wander back to where you were questing, only everything has already respawned, etc. etc.

 

Nevermind the lack of healing magic being, as others have noted, just contradictory to the lore of the game. ****, that's one of the few reasons people put up with mages in the south at all, they're sure handy for healing injuries. 

[BammBamm]

You can heal via KE, a single class with one spell that is a focus ability. How many DPS builds are there? Limited is a bit of an understatement. I find it interesting that is your defense. 

 

Again, its about choice and selection.  Giving healing does absolutely nothing to you, improves other's gaming experience and expands options. So again I will ask, what do you lose if it were re-instated?

 

yeah and the potion slots are just for decoration purpose

 

 

That is fine for you, others don't want to baby sit their team. I just went solo because I don't like to play that way and I didn't have to before they took tactics away. 

 

are we talking now about tactics or healing spells?

[BammBamm]

@Bam bam I agree, but I do not want to have to micro manage. None of the other DA games required Micromanaging.  I play after work and after my household duties are done. Means maybe one to 2 hours a night. I choose to spend my free time in a computer game. I also choose to play on casual because of time restraints.  When I feel the need to get down and Dirty I'll log into my favorite MMO(Fallen Earth) and hunt down some Travelers for PVP. But in a DA game I just want casual gameplay.  And to me it means not having to micromanage the the whole fight.

 

but stupid ai and maybe a better balancing has nothing to do with heal spells. if you ask me for a better ai, better tactic options or make casual more casual, i would surely say yes. but healspells is a nono.

[Inprea]

To the original poster. How are you that terrible? I've played through the game on normal went up against enemies several times my level because I refuse to back down and with a little planning slaughtered them.

 

I've rather enjoyed the set up. The use of barrier reminds me of playing a discipline priest in world of warcraft. I actually see this as a form of healing it's just that instead of restoring health you prevent the damage from ever landing. In many ways it's a superior form of healing. As I've been told before. "The best healing is to never be hurt."

 

And my goodness does the knight enchanter have that in spades! Once you get your barrier going they're nearly impossible to stop.

[Bladenite1481]

but stupid ai and maybe a better balancing has nothing to do with heal spells. if you ask me for a better ai, better tactic options or make casual more casual, i would surely say yes. but healspells is a nono.

You're not really giving any answers. You just say what you like, which is fine, it just doesn't promote and kind of discussion. You still havent answered what you would lose if heal spells were reinstated? You would rather someone else lose their preference of play style so you can pretend this game requires more skill than it does?

 

If they want to go preventative healing then go full action, lose your RPG customer base and put in full rolling, i-frames, blocking and parrying. Then name the game Dragon Age - Souls. 

 

Also, if you really want the game to be that hard then I will be waiting for your naked solo run with Prologue weapons on youtube. Let me know when that is out. 

[Sanguinerin]

Personally, I don't see much difference in the lack of a spell called "heal" and what we do have available.

 

For non-spells, I use the standard Healing Potion, the Rejuvenation Potion, and the Healing Grenades. For spells, all of my mages have Barrier and the direct upgrade to it (and then each is focused on a different Elemental Tree so that I can swap out which element I need).

 

And then my Inquisitor has mastered all of the Spirit Tree, so he can revive fallen party members and barrier comes up pretty quickly and lasts a good while.

 

My party 99.9% of the time (except for personal quests) includes Cassandra, Cole, and Vivienne. Cassandra's focus ability adds guard to all of my party members. And Vivienne's focus ability heals and revives all party members.

 

I haven't picked a specialization yet, but if I do go Arcane Enchanter, then that gives me two uses for that party heal/revival skill.

 

I haven't played around with other companions yet, but compared to everything above, I think there's plenty of options to heal available without having to constantly return to camp.

[SBMWaugh]

You know what the saddest thing about these forums are?  There is never a shortage of people to reply to troll threads like this but when it comes to someone trying to have a genuine conversation their thread gets ignored.  That being said, I think it was a mistake to pull the healing spells.  It doesn't ruin the game for me but I would have liked to play as a healer.  Closest thing we got to that now is the Knight Enchanter's focus ability which is still pretty sweet.  Has saved my ass before but it isn't enough to qualify the KE as a healer class.

 

But as someone who would identify as a casual player, playing this game on normal has been a fair challenge.  If your running out of pots then maybe you should lower the difficulty.  If you are playing on the lowest difficulty than maybe this just isn't the game for you.  No shame in that.  I bought Sleeping Dogs remastered a little while ago on a recommendation and couldn't stand the game and so I haven't played it since.  

[Bladenite1481]

Personally, I don't see much difference in the lack of a spell called "heal" and what we do have available.

 

For non-spells, I use the standard Healing Potion, the Rejuvenation Potion, and the Healing Grenades. For spells, all of my mages have Barrier and the direct upgrade to it (and then each is focused on a different Elemental Tree so that I can swap out which element I need).

 

And then my Inquisitor has mastered all of the Spirit Tree, so he can revive fallen party members and barrier comes up pretty quickly and lasts a good while.

 

My party 99.9% of the time (except for personal quests) includes Cassandra, Cole, and Vivienne. Cassandra's focus ability adds guard to all of my party members. And Vivienne's focus ability heals and revives all party members.

 

I haven't picked a specialization yet, but if I do go Arcane Enchanter, then that gives me two uses for that party heal/revival skill.

 

I haven't played around with other companions yet, but compared to everything above, I think there's plenty of options to heal available without having to constantly return to camp.

It is a difference of being proactive and having the ability to be reactive, or in this case if you had both, being able to rely on both. Reactive is generally more casual, but its a play style that people like so I don't see the problem with having it. Just because it's there, doesn't mean that everyone has to take it. It would not suddenly make the game easier. It would simply be an option, just like Fire mine or Lightning bolt. 

[BubbleDncr]

I don't consider myself the best player, but I haven't had a problem without healing spells. Played the whole game on Normal, got the perk to carry 12 health potions, and had 5 (non-upgraded) health regen pots on my character only, for most of the game. 

 

During the open world parts, I did have to go back to camp a fair amount to re-supply. But I never came close to running out during any of the "dungeons." 

[BammBamm]

You're not really giving any answers. You just say what you like, which is fine, it just doesn't promote and kind of discussion. You still havent answered what you would lose if heal spells were reinstated? You would rather someone else lose their preference of play style so you can pretend this game requires more skill than it does?

 

If they want to go preventative healing then go full action, lose your RPG customer base and put in full rolling, i-frames, blocking and parrying. Then name the game Dragon Age - Souls. 

 

Also, if you really want the game to be that hard then I will be waiting for your naked solo run with Prologue weapons on youtube. Let me know when that is out. 

 

congratz for your black belt in bs

 

what would be lost by reinstate heal spells? why they should?. they decided to take away heal spells and give you for that multiple ways of damage avoiding, because its a system with more tactical depth (and as i said, you can still heal just not without limits). why some gamers think every little fart have to be developed for their personal preferences? i got fun with da:o and heal and even more with the da:i system. but no now every little whiners creeps out of its hole which refuse to adapt to something new because he is stuck in old patterns and think when he stucks in time everything else have to do the same. if you cant live without heal spells, dont buy a game that clearly stated there will be no healing spells before, simple as that.

[Chiramu]

Half the game DA:O was, and wins GOTY awards from mainstream media. EA's pocket be hurtin now.

 

Awards aren't always for things that are really good, you have to look at what the line up against it was. There were a lot of AAA games this year, but not all of them were really enjoyable.

[Sartoz]

Don't use potions on your companions, save them for yourself. When they go down, use your mage's revive spell which will give them half their health back. Having infinite revive makes having limited potions pointless.

Yeah... but often I can't see where they are to revive them...

[abearzi]

I would personally like to see the other classes have access to a healing tree, in addition to the mage. 

 

I'll use Warhammer Online as a sort of rough model since I really enjoyed playing a healer in that game, far more than the other classes. 

 

There were heavy-armor Templar-esque healers (Warrior Priests) who would only be able to heal effectively so long as they were right in the thick of it smashing things with hammers. They could heal from the backlines, but at a severely reduced capacity. The Cultists were the standard backline healbot, but had very little offensive capacity. I just feel that the limited healer archetype has just been cast aside instead of built upon.

 

In Final Fantasy X-2 had an Alchemist build which was entirely potion based and I felt it was the strongest healing tree in the game, well above the White Mage. I was very disappointed when I learned that there was an Artificer tree for Rogues as well as a couple takes on alchemy, none of them included healing. Since the healing in DAI is entirely potion oriented anyway, that feels like a major missed opportunity. Give Rogues the ability to mix and brew potions and poisons on the fly.

[AlexMBrennan]

if you cant live without heal spells, dont buy a game that clearly stated there will be no healing spells before, simple as that.

Yes, it's hard to imagine that people who prefer the old style with healing might want more games in style they enjoy - I mean, sure, I suppose I could pick up Fifa and try to learn to like it but I'd really rather not.

If we were to follow your sage advice then there is zero chance of getting future games being different, so I'll take my chances with voicing my displeasure. 

[Sartoz]

Look, people wanted tactics, they got tactics outside of the tactical camera.  You want to explore then think ahead, know where the closest camp is, replenish often, don't get over confident.  It isn't hard to adapt.

What tactics? micromanaging your team is not tactics.