151 réponses à ce sujet

[CoffeeElemental]

The only instance where I thought this was annoying was Champions of the Just quest. It happens quite early in the game, way before specializations and potion upgrades, yet it has less supply caches than latter story quests, despite being combat heavy.

[MacroN0va]

There is not a single dungeon that cannot be done on nightmare with the potion refill stations given to the player within them, if you can't manage them  with the supplies given that is a sign you need to turn down the difficulty to suit your player skill.

I like how people are complaining about this post being impolite or elitist, when it is 1) 100% accurate, and 2) responding to a post by the OP that called someone who disagreed with their point of view a "numbskull."

 

All because someone didn't bend over backwards to be polite when suggesting that someone's problem might be their own fault...

 

If you don't enjoy the way healing and potions work in this game, that is a totally valid opinion. Personally I enjoy it just fine, and the game is clearly balanced around that combat design decision. You have plenty of tools to manage aggro and mitigate damage that you can go many many engagements without restocking potions. If you're doing a dungeon crawl area and the supply caches are not meeting your needs, then either

1. rethink your party composition and which potions you give everyone

2. rethink your tactics, or

3. turn down the difficulty.

 

Again, not liking the decision to remove healing is very different from not being able to complete content because it was removed.

[strangerism]

to me the potion system as is, just add another unnecessary micromanagement. it does't make the game more challenging in respect to having a dedicated healer, we still have the heals at the end of the day. A bit out of context, in the two play through I did with DA:O I rarely had an healer in the party because I concentrated my play style more on tanking, control and dps which I find it more fun and strategic.

 

Now the healer class or tree, would have been a better choice in order to spare us with the boring swapping/cycling between chars to have them gulp the healing potion or the regen potion once every minute (especially when playing in nightmare). Coupled with long cool down or big mana cost could have been quite balanced considering that with healing spec comes less dps in the team overall. We would still have a choice, go full dps or gimped dps plus heals and play the way we like. 

[xrayspex73]

I like that there is no healing. It was amazingly cheap and made the previous games far too easy. In fact I kind of wish there were no healing potions as well. Regen potions are fine as they do not constitute an "Oh Sh*t" power. I would rather the battles be fought without the option of any significant healing. It would make the game far more strategic.

[Demon Velsper]

I like how people are complaining about this post being impolite or elitist, when it is 1) 100% accurate, and 2) responding to a post by the OP that called someone who disagreed with their point of view a "numbskull."

 

Then you clearly haven't read the numbskull's post. The numbskull offered a solution that wasn't workable proving that he didn't actually understand the post he was responding, yet still couldn't resist the need to be condescending. In no way did the Numbskull offer any disagreeing opinion apart from the condescension of "you suck, play easy. durr." which makes him a numbskull that responded to the topic for no particular reason other than to belittle it.

[dfstone]

I like no healing.  It makes you think before you attack and come up with a plan.  

[Bladenite1481]

I like how people are complaining about this post being impolite or elitist, when it is 1) 100% accurate, and 2) responding to a post by the OP that called someone who disagreed with their point of view a "numbskull."

 

All because someone didn't bend over backwards to be polite when suggesting that someone's problem might be their own fault...

 

If you don't enjoy the way healing and potions work in this game, that is a totally valid opinion. Personally I enjoy it just fine, and the game is clearly balanced around that combat design decision. You have plenty of tools to manage aggro and mitigate damage that you can go many many engagements without restocking potions. If you're doing a dungeon crawl area and the supply caches are not meeting your needs, then either

1. rethink your party composition and which potions you give everyone

2. rethink your tactics, or

3. turn down the difficulty.

 

Again, not liking the decision to remove healing is very different from not being able to complete content because it was removed.

I think if anything the potions make the game easier. Its not one person with the ability to heal, its everyone. Hiding behind the facade of tactics or challenge is an illusion. Its a game play choice, you either like it or you don't, but that's all it is. Having healing would change noting. People just want to pretend that his game is challenging, it's not, it never has been and unless they change how enemies respond to the players then it never will be no matter how many choices you strip away.

 

There is more than enough fodder to switch out weapons that regen on hit. Again, the only thing not having healing does is force certain builds, weapons and or methods. It limits choices and myopically presses players into specific routines. It does nothing for challenge, none of you who say you want a challenge really do. I have yet to see a naked run video, or a mid game weapon run, or a 0-level run. You want skill? You want to show us how good you are, I'm waiting.

[Bladenite1481]

I like that there is no healing. It was amazingly cheap and made the previous games far too easy. In fact I kind of wish there were no healing potions as well. Regen potions are fine as they do not constitute an "Oh Sh*t" power. I would rather the battles be fought without the option of any significant healing. It would make the game far more strategic.

So remove the potions from your hot bar and don't use them. I'll be waiting for your uploads. Id love for some of you guys to put your game where your BSN rant is. That choice is there, let's see you do it. 

[abearzi]

I like that there is no healing. It was amazingly cheap and made the previous games far too easy. In fact I kind of wish there were no healing potions as well. Regen potions are fine as they do not constitute an "Oh Sh*t" power. I would rather the battles be fought without the option of any significant healing. It would make the game far more strategic.

I completely disagree. Tedium and challenge are not even close to the same thing. 

 

I played through on Nightmare and and never bothered to upgrade my potion capacity and I think there should be healing spells. Once the tank reaches the point of being more or less invincible I just made my party stop using potions at all. It was easier to just let them die and then revive them manually. Then I just left the tank with the few healing pots. 

 

It doesn't encourage tactics, it just encourages returning to camp or spending 40 minutes while the tank slowly kills everything or the people who play KEs pretend barrier spam means skill and tactics. The potion system is bad, tedious, immersion breaking, and lore breaking.

[Jaizek]

Then you clearly haven't read the numbskull's post. The numbskull offered a solution that wasn't workable proving that he didn't actually understand the post he was responding, yet still couldn't resist the need to be condescending. In no way did the Numbskull offer any disagreeing opinion apart from the condescension of "you suck, play easy. durr." which makes him a numbskull that responded to the topic for no particular reason other than to belittle it.

 

Trollolololololol.

Gotta feed the Troll peeps, Hes a hungry boy with No skillz and jealous at the Elite Gamer's(which seems to be everyone on this thread according to him)

[dfstone]

I completely disagree. Tedium and challenge are not even close to the same thing. 

 

I played through on Nightmare and and never bothered to upgrade my potion capacity and I think there should be healing spells. Once the tank reaches the point of being more or less invincible I just made my party stop using potions at all. It was easier to just let them die and then revive them manually. Then I just left the tank with the few healing pots. 

 

It doesn't encourage tactics, it just encourages returning to camp or spending 40 minutes while the tank slowly kills everything or the people who play KEs pretend barrier spam means skill and tactics. The potion system is bad, tedious, immersion breaking, and lore breaking.

 

Why would it be easier for them to die when you can just set them to automatically drink a potion when their health is low?

[BammBamm]

So remove the potions from your hot bar and don't use them. I'll be waiting for your uploads. Id love for some of you guys to put your game where your BSN rant is. That choice is there, let's see you do it. 

 

lol, running out of arguments? just as a reminder, we didnt whined about running back to the camp all the time or get stucked in story quests.

[SwobyJ]

Eh, not exactly? Even in DA: Origins it was stated specifically that Spirit Healers are in great demand. Sure, Origins also stated that Healing magic typically require more skills and finesse than any other school, but nothing has been stated that healing magic is not something that you cannot do during combat. IIRC it was even stated that Spirit Healers are great asset in combat situations.

 

Well, Bioware contradicting something that they have set up themselves is not exactly a ground-breaking news (lol Leliana coming back alive if you behead her in Temple of Sacred Ashes), but the contradiction nonetheless is there.

 

I just find it rather hard to believe that none of the highly skillful mages we have in our party is capable of knowing healing magic though.

 

Spirit Healers does not = Creation tree

 

Bioware decided to do two things:

 

1) Make Creation magic more lore-appropriate. That is, the healing from it would not be very appropriate in the middle of a battle. Healing is supposed to be HARD.

 

2) Removed Spirit Healer. That isn't to say that there are not Spirit Healers out there, but it is in great demand not just because of its usefulness, but because of RARITY.

-Wynne had a spirit

-Warden had all sorts of weirdness where he could take on any specialization, so I wouldn't put stock in this

-Anders had a spirit

-Hawke had the same deal as Warden. We can just assume that Warden and Hawke can have such attunement to the Fade that their Spirit magic gets especially good with Healing because reasons

 

Vivienne knows healing. She's a Knight Enchanter and can do it a bit.

Solas and Dorian know healing.

HOWEVER, healing is now even more lore appropriate than even DAO in how it is supposed to be difficult and take focus. More appropriate for a medic sitting with a patient, than someone bouncing around spamming Heal and Group Heal.

 

 

Creation requires considerable finesse, more than any other school, and is therefore rarely mastered.

 

That is NOT to say that there couldn't be a character/class that can't spam heals. Bioware just made it so that the ones we see in DAI cannot.

-Vivienne doesn't have a specialty in Creation, I guess

-Solas cares more about Spirit and Veil/Fade, I guess

-Dorian cares more about Necromancy, I guess

-Inquisitor learns from the above

 

Honestly, it all works for me. But so would, for example, a Spirit Healer coming in an expansion that allows more of a spammable (with restraints in the game design) healing, helpful for Lv 20+ expansion enemies and bosses.

We just have none in DAI, by design, and the Creation healing is IMO put to a more lore-appropriate placement as being hard to cast without focus and calm next to someone suffering. Spirit mages themselves are not really about healing as much as they are about protection and stripping away protections.

 

 

When it comes to the DAI changes themselves (regardless of lore arguments), I don't mind em. I like that the game seems to want me to be more proactive than reactive this time, and set up the battlefield and let it play out, rather than micromanage every moment in harder difficulties. There is a tactics happening, I absolutely think so - it is just of a different kind.

 

But I still wouldn't mind a Spirit Healer specialization and/or companion come in an expansion, and as a MP class for that matter. Spam away, just as long as it is tuned to NOT be overpowered (which really may be a big challenge for the designers).

[Xralius]

I'd rather have healing than have to use barrier all the damn time. Basically have to use it every fight, since damage done to health is permanent. It's annoying. I have no trouble difficulty-wise but Id rather have a healer in my party than worry about barriers 24/7.

[dfstone]

I like not having to be forced to have a group with a healer in it.  Without healing magic you can make any kind of group you want.  Which is more fun.

[SwobyJ]

I'd rather have healing than have to use barrier all the damn time. Basically have to use it every fight, since damage done to health is permanent. It's annoying. I have no trouble difficulty-wise but Id rather have a healer in my party than worry about barriers 24/7.

 

Yeah I can understand that. They may have went a little too far in that direction than they should have. But personally I do like there being a greater emphasis on Barrier in itself.

 

And FYI I was Spirit Healer in both DAO and DA2.

 

I like not having to be forced to have a group with a healer in it.  Without healing magic you can make any kind of group you want.  Which is more fun.

 

That's one of the best parts of this change. There's still different class mechanics and pros/cons, but no longer a 'NEED TO BRING X' factor. Heck, you don't even need to bring a sword and board tank exactly, but just be more proficient with barriers and other stuff (though of course a tank helps in bigger fights and harder difficulties).

[Sidney]

In the hinterlands the no healing was a whipping but:

1. I was under leveled for a lot of foes.
2. They were re spawning all the time
3. I only had one heavy in the party
4. Most importantly, I didn't have a good understanding if guard mechanisms

Once I got 4 and 1 figured out things got a lot easier. Guard is the biggest curveball in the game mechanics that it takes some understanding and building your warriors to get guard. I really hadn't done that.

[Bladenite1481]

lol, running out of arguments? just as a reminder, we didnt whined about running back to the camp all the time.

I'm not arguing, I'm helping the man. He wants to play the game with no potions, I merely showed him a way that he could do so. I'd be quite impressed if he could play the game with no potions at all. As for your snide comment, you have a very short memory.I never whined about running back to camp. So maybe learn to read and retain something beyond a few seconds before you comment. What I talked about was having choice taken away for no good reason. 

 

Games like the Dark Souls Series, certain MMO's, FPS like Counter Strike, and the like with people who truthfully want a challenge, do challenging things like personally handicap themselves to make the game harder. I don't see any of that being posted or shown, unless its KE or Reaver. Id love to see a solo Dragon kill with a Rift mage w/o potions. I think it would be most entertaining. 

[Bladenite1481]

That's one of the best parts of this change. There's still different class mechanics and pros/cons, but no longer a 'NEED TO BRING X' factor. Heck, you don't even need to bring a sword and board tank exactly, but just be more proficient with barriers and other stuff (though of course a tank helps in bigger fights and harder difficulties).

You could always do that, you just had to think outside of the box. DA has never needed anything specific to win. 

[Benman1964]

The no-healing wouldn't be such an issue if tactical camera and AI of your non-controlled characters would not be so crappy. The 'Hold Position' only works partly and ranged damagers run into melee too often. (Sera for instance is a pain in the butt, thinking she's a double daggered killer while only holding a bow)

And then there's the Grand Duchess final battle (not telling where that is, the ones that played it know what i mean). Playing it on Nightmare is (for me) undoable and i now went in twice with different companions (the first time lv12, second time all lv 15) but did not make it to the end so i finished it the third time in 'normal' mode. I wish i could have had some more healing there because the plan on finishing DAI in Nightmare mode is now plain gone.

[BammBamm]

I'm not arguing, I'm helping the man. He wants to play the game with no potions, I merely showed him a way that he could do so. I'd be quite impressed if he could play the game with no potions at all. As for your snide comment, you have a very short memory.I never whined about running back to camp. So maybe learn to read and retain something beyond a few seconds before you comment. What I talked about was having choice taken away for no good reason. 

 

Games like the Dark Souls Series, certain MMO's, FPS like Counter Strike, and the like with people who truthfully want a challenge, do challenging things like personally handicap themselves to make the game harder. I don't see any of that being posted or shown, unless its KE or Reaver. Id love to see a solo Dragon kill with a Rift mage w/o potions. I think it would be most entertaining. 

 

problem is you cant remove the health potions for the party only the other slots are customizable so if you want to troll somebody make at least sure you know what you are talking about

 

 

I think if anything the potions make the game easier. Its not one person with the ability to heal, its everyone. Hiding behind the facade of tactics or challenge is an illusion. Its a game play choice, you either like it or you don't, but that's all it is. Having healing would change noting. People just want to pretend that his game is challenging, it's not, it never has been and unless they change how enemies respond to the players then it never will be no matter how many choices you strip away.

 

There is more than enough fodder to switch out weapons that regen on hit. Again, the only thing not having healing does is force certain builds, weapons and or methods. It limits choices and myopically presses players into specific routines. It does nothing for challenge, none of you who say you want a challenge really do. I have yet to see a naked run video, or a mid game weapon run, or a 0-level run. You want skill? You want to show us how good you are, I'm waiting.

 

and how can potions make the game easier? you know, in origins you had potion AND spells. the more i read the more its sure you just have absolutely no point or clue, just an opinion.

[dfstone]

The no-healing wouldn't be such an issue if tactical camera and AI of your non-controlled characters would not be so crappy. The 'Hold Position' only works partly and ranged damagers run into melee too often. (Sera for instance is a pain in the butt, thinking she's a double daggered killer while only holding a bow)

And then there's the Grand Duchess final battle (not telling where that is, the ones that played it know what i mean). Playing it on Nightmare is (for me) undoable and i now went in twice with different companions (the first time lv12, second time all lv 15) but did not make it to the end so i finished it the third time in 'normal' mode. I wish i could have had some more healing there because the plan on finishing DAI in Nightmare mode is now plain gone.

 

Thats because you've given her skills that require melee range.

[MacroN0va]

I think if anything the potions make the game easier. Its not one person with the ability to heal, its everyone. Hiding behind the facade of tactics or challenge is an illusion. Its a game play choice, you either like it or you don't, but that's all it is. Having healing would change noting. People just want to pretend that his game is challenging, it's not, it never has been and unless they change how enemies respond to the players then it never will be no matter how many choices you strip away.

 

There is more than enough fodder to switch out weapons that regen on hit. Again, the only thing not having healing does is force certain builds, weapons and or methods. It limits choices and myopically presses players into specific routines. It does nothing for challenge, none of you who say you want a challenge really do. I have yet to see a naked run video, or a mid game weapon run, or a 0-level run. You want skill? You want to show us how good you are, I'm waiting.

You were so close to not straw manning me, but it got away from you at the end there. I'm left wondering how what you've written is a direct reply to my post.

 

I never said the game was hard, or that there is a ton of depth to the combat, or that the potion mechanic replacing (not really "replacing" since previous games allowed the chugging of potions by everyone) the healer mechanic makes the game harder. But some people are struggling because they are having trouble adjusting to the new mechanics. My post was a response to the attitudes of people who think the lack of healing makes the game objectively worse and harder, and what you're expected to do to accomplish the content.

 

For the record, I'm playing on Hard, and not finding the game overwhelmingly challenging but not faceroll either. As for what most of us want - most of us want a balanced experience that makes us work for our victories but is still fair and fun, and doesn't require us to do immersion-breaking things like run around nude or unleveled or with bad equipment. For the vast majority of people, one of the four difficulties is going to provide exactly that. Oh, and those videos you're waiting on? You're going to be waiting a long time if you expect one from me, and I have to say I can't even imagine what I said to lead you to believe I would be making one.

[Bladenite1481]

problem is you cant remove the health potions for the party only the other slots are customizable so if you want to troll somebody make at least sure you know what you are talking about

 

 

 

and how can potions make the game easier? you know, in origins you had potion AND spells. the more i read the more its sure you just have absolutely no point or clue, just an opinion.

 

You were so close to not straw manning me, but it got away from you at the end there. I'm left wondering how what you've written is a direct reply to my post.

 

I never said the game was hard, or that there is a ton of depth to the combat, or that the potion mechanic replacing (not really "replacing" since previous games allowed the chugging of potions by everyone) the healer mechanic makes the game harder. But some people are struggling because they are having trouble adjusting to the new mechanics. My post was a response to the attitudes of people who think the lack of healing makes the game objectively worse and harder, and what you're expected to do to accomplish the content.

 

For the record, I'm playing on Hard, and not finding the game overwhelmingly challenging but not faceroll either. As for what most of us want - most of us want a balanced experience that makes us work for our victories but is still fair and fun, and doesn't require us to do immersion-breaking things like run around nude or unleveled or with bad equipment. For the vast majority of people, one of the four difficulties is going to provide exactly that. Oh, and those videos you're waiting on? You're going to be waiting a long time if you expect one from me, and I have to say I can't even imagine what I said to lead you to believe I would be making one.

Yeah it was more of a blank statement to anyone saying this new system made anything hard or challenging, so my apologies. Its put things in specific places, but its all still there. Its just cumbersome, I don't see the use. To me if you want people to play more tactically, then limit the damage on anything but combos. Let's see how that plays out. Improve the AI, give the enemies more move sets, vary the groupings of humanoids, make the enemies use more combos and CC skills..I mean..there are many ways to make this more challenging, but they choose the easiest path. 

[Lady Luminous]

There's a difference between what's fun to do and what's possible to do. Though feel free to show your elitism some more, it makes you all the more endearing. I'm sure everyone is just as impressed as I am with your skills in a video game.

 

Okay now, the sarcasm and rudeness is getting to be overly much. How about a little courtesy to the people who are trying to help you. 

 

I understand your frustration, but there's no need to be so acerbic.