After becoming good friends with Cullen, he told my Inquisitor about lyrium and templars taking it, and they get their first dose after a vigil to complete their training.
This ties in to what Alistair said in Origins, and how he never became addicted to lyrium because he never took his vows.
So, I have to ask, is lyrium being required for templar powers, which was retconned from what Alistair originally said, retconned again?
Cassandra is directly said to have "all the powers of a templar without the lyrium requirement," so it definitely seems like it's not the source of their power at this point. Which makes the fact they take it pretty odd, if you ask me. I guess it's just the Chantry using it to control them.
Well, I don't remember everything about Templars, but Alistair never became a full-time Templar while Cullen was for like 10+ years.
I imagine lyrium just makes their abilities more effective and potent, trumping over mages with like 99.9% efficiency.
I'm not sure what you're seeing retconned exactly. They never explained how Alistair had the powers without the lyrium once they established he was wrong about lyrium not being needed at all. They just established that after a while he no longer had the powers and had to take lyrium to regain them.
I think they're going with "you need lyrium to maintain the abilities unless you're a Seeker, but they don't disappear as soon as you stop taking it every day."
Cassandra is directly said to have "all the powers of a templar without the lyrium requirement," so it definitely seems like it's not the source of their power at this point. Which makes the fact they take it pretty odd, if you ask me. I guess it's just the Chantry using it to control them.
They explain why Seekers are different in the game. A player taking a templar spec is not a Seeker and needs to take lyrium, though.
But that's the thing. Alistiar never took his vows, he never went on the vigil, and thus was never given his first dose of lyrium. He never had to start "retaking it" in the comics if this is true, and Cullen made it clear that templars are not given lyrium until after that vigil and vows are made.
Isn't the retcon about lyrium being needed already old news?
They explain why Seekers are different in the game. A player taking a templar spec is not a Seeker and needs to take lyrium, though.
Seekers are made tranquil, and then cured with a Spirit of Faith, each and every one of them.
Isn't the retcon about lyrium being needed already old news?
Yes, but now it may not be needed if you're a templar when combined with what Alistair says in Origins with what Cullen says in Inquisition.
But that's the thing. Alistiar never took his vows, he never went on the vigil, and thus was never given his first dose of lyrium. He never had to start "retaking it" in the comics if this is true, and Cullen made it clear that templars are not given lyrium until after that vigil and vows are made.
Ah I see. I never interpreted what happened in the comics as Alistair retaking lyrium (and thus establishing that he used it prior to DAO). I understood it as his powers had finally stopped working on their own and he had to take lyrium to regain them.
Just gonna chill here and wait for the inevitable "this isn't technically a retcon and you're using the word improperly" guy.
I'm just trying to get clarification on where, exactly the lore on lyrium being required for templars stands.
The Inquisition controls all Templars left in Thedas, all the normal ones. All of them need lyrium, including the Inquisitor possibly. Cullen speaks to a Templar Inquisitor about it.
Doesn't Alistair say 'you don't need lyrium to get templar powers, lyrium just make the powers more affective'?
The Inquisition controls all Templars left in Thedas, all the normal ones. All of them need lyrium, including the Inquisitor possibly. Cullen speaks to a Templar Inquisitor about it.
Hmm, all the templars left in Thedas or all the templars associated with the Orlesian chantry?
The Tevinter empire has its own order of templars connected to the Imperial Chantry, who while not as proficient at fighting magic, are still a force to be reckoned with. I really don't see how it would come to pass that the Inquisition, which is primarily a creation of the Chantry of Orlais and operating in the areas under that Chantry's sway, would suddenly acquire the allegiance of the imperial templars - templars that were never connected to the Orlesian chantry in the first place.
Hmm, all the templars left in Thedas or all the templars associated with the Orlesian chantry?
The Tevinter empire has its own order of templars connected to the Imperial Chantry, who while not as proficient at fighting magic, are still a force to be reckoned with. I really don't see how it would come to pass that the Inquisition, which is primarily a creation of the Chantry of Orlais and operating in the areas under that Chantry's sway, would suddenly acquire the allegiance of the imperial templars - templars that were never connected to the Orlesian chantry in the first place.
the imperial templars are just soliders they are not like the southern templars.
IIRC wasn't there supposed to be a mechanic for templars/mages where you could become addicted to lyrium?
yeah but somebody had issue and cut it. Wouldve played templar more if they didthe imperial templars are just soliders they are not like the southern templars.
IIRC wasn't there supposed to be a mechanic for templars/mages where you could become addicted to lyrium?
Doesn't Alistair say 'you don't need lyrium to get templar powers, lyrium just make the powers more affective'?
I'm playing through Origins right now, and can confirm he says that. I haven't read any of the books or comics, though. Would make sense for lyrium to be only a means of control for the Chantry.
gaider retconed that as he's lying/misinformed. Temps need the juice to do their jobs the control is a benefit and they see it as a necassary. DAI. Made things more complicatedI'm playing through Origins right now, and can confirm he says that. I haven't read any of the books or comics, though. Would make sense for lyrium to be only a means of control for the Chantry.
gaider retconed that as he's lying/misinformed. Temps need the juice to do their jobs the control is a benefit and they see it as a necassary. DAI. Made things more complicated
it also explains why the templars in tevinter do not have these powers. even if the templars were under the control of the magisters, I assume that the magisters would greatly love using templars against their enemies if they could counter magic. Though they likely were neutered so that no magister had to feel that threat themselves. 
Also in regards to dragon age, one thing to keep in mind: do not take what ever a character says IG as 100% fact. Why? because they are not provided with full details. They could be lying, they could be mistaken, they could have ulteror motives, they could be predjuciced.
its like what dorian says they had their balls cut off XD and never take anything IG as fact its like having a arsehole everyone has one just one smells more.it also explains why the templars in tevinter do not have these powers. even if the templars were under the control of the magisters, I assume that the magisters would greatly love using templars against their enemies if they could counter magic. Though they likely were neutered so that no magister had to feel that threat themselves.
Also in regards to dragon age, one thing to keep in mind: do not take what ever a character says IG as 100% fact. Why? because they are not provided with full details. They could be lying, they could be mistaken, they could have ulteror motives, they could be predjuciced.
Here is what I think: What Alistair said was not a retcon, but a handwaive. They wanted you to get a Templar but make it playable at the same time without the issue of addiction coming up, so they used a templar in training and gave him that line to explain how he had the powers without looking like an addict. Inquisition is the true face of the Templar powers (minus Cassandra).
the imperial templars are just soliders they are not like the southern templars.
Are they just soldiers?
I get that they are work by different rules, enforcing the law on behalf of the Magisterium but not supposed to act on their own, and that they do not have the full powers against magic that the Orlesian Chantry templars do, as made explicit in Inquisition if you choose to send covert templars to aid a Tevinter magister against his opponent.
So one might think of them as policemen of some sort.
On the other hand, they are the ones tasked with acting against rogue mages in the empire and can enforce the Right of Annulment according to Fenris in Dragon Age:2, which doesn't sound like the sort of job to hand to ordinary policemen or soldiers, and Dorian in Inquisition says how the imperial templars are mostly used against mages that fall out of favour with the magisterium or are weak (because nobody dares touch those that are strong and in favour) rather than based on the magnitude of their crimes.
All taken together, though it is made explicit that they do not have the full powers against mages that the southern Templars do, what I've been told in-game in the last two games just doesn't square with Tevinter templars being ordinary soldiers, as differences aside, they are a weapon used by mages against other mages.
in the south magi are the weapons.... up north mundanes are the weapons XDAre they just soldiers?
I get that they are work by different rules, enforcing the law on behalf of the Magisterium but not supposed to act on their own, and that they do not have the full powers against magic that the Orlesian Chantry templars do, as made explicit in Inquisition if you choose to send covert templars to aid a Tevinter magister against his opponent.
So one might think of them as policemen of some sort.
On the other hand, they are the ones tasked with acting against rogue mages in the empire and can enforce the Right of Annulment according to Fenris in Dragon Age:2, which doesn't sound like the sort of job to hand to ordinary policemen or soldiers, and Dorian in Inquisition says how the imperial templars are mostly used against mages that fall out of favour with the magisterium or are weak (because nobody dares touch those that are strong and in favour) rather than based on the magnitude of their crimes.
All taken together, though it is made explicit that they do not have the full powers against mages that the southern Templars do, what I've been told in-game in the last two games just doesn't square with Tevinter templars being ordinary soldiers, as differences aside, they are a weapon used by mages against other mages.
Just retyping what I heard. Doesn't one of the comics have Alistair taking lyrium because it was required to be a templar?
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