35 réponses à ce sujet

[jdmteggy4life]

ive been hearing a lot of how the reaver has really good dps. so how close does it come compared to the assassin dps

[Magma_Axis]

Not even close.

Rogue Damage output is far more than warrior or mage

[l3loodpimp]

Single target sustained dps, i think Assasin has an edge. But Reaver bring Horn of valor to the party if your tank do not already has it (50% damage bonus or 15% if not enhanced) which boost the dps of the whole party, and add a significant AOE dps boots.

 

However, if you are seeking the best optimized group, you should never replace you're only rogue dps slot for a reaver, or an assassin....

[Zenthar Aseth]

Not even close.

Rogue Damage output is far more than warrior or mage

Have you actually tried Reaver? Rogue doesn't even come close to the DPS a 2h reaver can do with Dragon Rage. And that's AoE.

[Matth85]

Assassin DW rogue > 2h Reaver in terms of pure dps. No competition, really. While you can hit up to 5k with Dragon Rage(while generally being at 1k-3k per hit), you can get a burst of near 70k in 9 seconds as a Assassin Rogue.

 

A Reaver does, however, cleave and can sustain through most damage late-game. With some Tier 3 gear you could reliably tank, on nightmare, as a reaver 2h at low health. 

[Zenthar Aseth]

Assassin DW rogue > 2h Reaver in terms of pure dps. No competition, really. While you can hit up to 5k with Dragon Rage(while generally being at 1k-3k per hit), you can get a burst of near 70k in 9 seconds as a Assassin Rogue.

 

A Reaver does, however, cleave and can sustain through most damage late-game. With some Tier 3 gear you could reliably tank, on nightmare, as a reaver 2h at low health. 

Assassin needs quite a bit of specific gear to rival the damage of Reaver, though, while Reaver starts being insane with minimal investment in gear/levels. I think it'd be fair to say that for most people, Reaver is going to outperform Rogue, DPS wise.

 

That's not to say Rogue isn't good, though, I like both of my characters, Rogue and Warrior -- it's just a different playstyle, and Rogue can definitely pack a punch even before significant and specific gear.

 

Also, a Reaver hitting 3-5k per hit isn't going to be far from 70k damage in 9 seconds, even single target wise, and has no cooldowns - if you count real damage done, i.e., the cleave, it should exceed 70k. Especially if you use the Reaver focus ability. But again (since people take class discussion VERY personally, even though it's a single player game), I don't dislike Rogue or anything, they just have slightly different roles and Rogue actually has better survivability.

 

Bottom line: If you want to play a DPSer, both classes will do.

[Matth85]

That is true. A Reaver doesn't rely on gear to do decent, it just relies on some passives and a little bit of health management. Rogues scale a lot better with gear.

That said, single target a DW rogue crushes a reaver. But, as noted, Reavers cleave. A pack of enemies fall quicker than a rogue can kill them 1 by 1.

Rogue also require a more tactical approach, which isn't for everyone. 

 

Both DW rogue and Reaver warrior follows the Risk vs reward-playstyle, where a rogue focus on murdering in seconds, and a reaver focus on losing health and surviving. Both are quite interesing in their own way!

 

*For reference, my first game clear was on a reaver, as I am a die-hard 2 hander fan in RPGs. Though I must admit, Reaver is very boring to play after a while.*

[Selea]

Assassin needs quite a bit of specific gear to rival the damage of Reaver, though, while Reaver starts being insane with minimal investment in gear/levels. I think it'd be fair to say that for most people, Reaver is going to outperform Rogue, DPS wise.

Now, if for "quite a lot of specific gear" you mean "crafting a couple of tier 2 daggers with some good material you find everywhere" then you are right, elsewhere not. With just two simple tier 2 daggers (that btw you get for free at Skyhold) a DW rogue outdamages a Reaver by 2 times at the very least (with tier 3 schematics the damage difference is really icomparable, especially with Assassin spec since we are talking here about specs).

As for AOE: just use a two bladed dagger (the schematic of whom you can get very early with a perk) on the main hand and you are set.

But it's true that Reaver give a boost to damage to the whole party and that's really handy to have (especially for a rogue in fact; one of the most powerful strategies involves a Reaver + Sera, not surprisingly).

[Zenthar Aseth]

Now, if for "quite a lot of specific gear" you mean "crafting a couple of tier 2 daggers with some good material you find everywhere" then you are right, elsewhere not. With just two simple tier 2 daggers (that btw you get for free at Skyhold) a DW rogue outdamages a Reaver by 2 times at the very least (with tier 3 schematics the damage difference is really icomparable, especially with Assassin spec since we are talking here about specs).

No, they don't. Reavers outdamage rogues by 5 times, easy.

[Lucrece]

No, they don't. Reavers outdamage rogues by 5 times, easy.

 

LOL. Your 5k hits are nothing to my my rogue, sorry. Not only can a rogue burst higher, but when you start talking autoattack sustained DPS it's not even close. In a Fire Flask I can reliably do 7k twin fangs back to back, and that doesn't even count damage in execute range with deathblow, so when that dragon falls to execute range a rogue is going to kick your sorry ass in DPS by even more with back to back 9-10k deathblows.

 

Rogues scale hideously well with gear, particularly because of the huge base damage given to their weapons.

 

Feel free to enjoy warrior AoE, though. It's good sure but I'd rather have my mages around for the CC and similarly good aoe.

[Zenthar Aseth]

LOL. Your 5k hits are nothing to my my rogue, sorry. Not only can a rogue burst higher, but when you start talking autoattack sustained DPS it's not even close. In a Fire Flask I can reliably do 7k twin fangs back to back, and that doesn't even count damage in execute range with deathblow, so when that dragon falls to execute range a rogue is going to kick your sorry ass in DPS by even more with back to back 9-10k deathblows.

 

Rogues scale hideously well with gear, particularly because of the huge base damage given to their weapons.

 

Feel free to enjoy warrior AoE, though. It's good sure but I'd rather have my mages around for the CC and similarly good aoe.

Yes indeed, constant, no cooldown 5k AoE hits are nothing compared to your 32 CD, 5 second duration 7k damage that requires you to be behind your enemy. Meanwhile, leaving behind the wonderful land of theorycrafting, it doesn't work quite like that in reality.

[zeypher]

That is true. A Reaver doesn't rely on gear to do decent, it just relies on some passives and a little bit of health management. Rogues scale a lot better with gear.

That said, single target a DW rogue crushes a reaver. But, as noted, Reavers cleave. A pack of enemies fall quicker than a rogue can kill them 1 by 1.

Rogue also require a more tactical approach, which isn't for everyone. 

 

Both DW rogue and Reaver warrior follows the Risk vs reward-playstyle, where a rogue focus on murdering in seconds, and a reaver focus on losing health and surviving. Both are quite interesing in their own way!

 

*For reference, my first game clear was on a reaver, as I am a die-hard 2 hander fan in RPGs. Though I must admit, Reaver is very boring to play after a while.*

Same here, now levelling up an assassin. So far the management skills etc are a lot more fun that ring of pain rage devour combo

[Kuosi]

Having beaten the game on both reaver and dw assassin on nightmare I can say rogue does deliver much higher single target burst but aoe reaver takes it easily. Rogue needs more specific gear, you can reach 100% armor penetration and then you stack crit dmg and flank dmg and watch the numbers roll to ridiculous amounts

[Selea]

No, they don't. Reavers outdamage rogues by 5 times, easy.

Yes, sure. When you reaver will be able to do 90k damage to an enemy in 8 seconds without using a focus ability call me, want you? Till then, continue to dream on it.

But since you said that they do x5 of Assassins that means they should do 450k in 8 seconds... Let's see a video about it, want we?

[Selea]

Yes indeed, constant, no cooldown 5k AoE hits are nothing compared to your 32 CD, 5 second duration 7k damage that requires you to be behind your enemy. Meanwhile, leaving behind the wonderful land of theorycrafting, it doesn't work quite like that in reality.

 

Yes, because you do constantly 5k AoE damage on every ability you use, how not (with the Reaver it is a fluctuation on damage, it is not stable, differently from many other builds - as Assassin in fact).
Meanwhile the DW rogue REALLY does much more than 5k for every ability used and you can chain them without problems (when you have four abilities three of which are 8 secs CD and one of them can be chained over and over if you kill something CDs are the least of your issues: stamina is, but that's the same also for the Reaver, isn't it?).

Btw getting flanking is a necessity if you want to do serious DPS because it does a LOT more damage (especially if you craft your gear for it) and if you don't utilize flanking either on a Reaver build then you clearly should do so to maximize the build.

You cannot reach certain levels if you don't flank, there's no way.

[Xarius478]

Can a Reaver beat this DPS? 

 

Maybe with Rampage?  I'm still in the process of making a Reaver, so I'm curious.

[Selea]

That build above is neither maximized because PWs is a wasted point on an Assassin build imo. Many better alternatives (although against a Dragon it can be handy since you are forced on normal attacking for a vast amount of time, so in that case the damage when you use abilities works fine).

Also two AOE daggers lowers your DPS by a lot. Only one in the main hand is necessary for the AOE animation to work. On the left hand goes the most powerful dagger (and single bladed daggers are the most powerful ones) for Deathblow.

[Xarius478]

That build above is neither maximized because PWs is a wasted point on an Assassin build imo. Many better alternatives (although against a Dragon it can be handy since you are forced on normal attacking for a vast amount of time, so in that case the damage when you use abilities works fine).

Also two AOE daggers lowers your DPS by a lot. Only one in the main hand is necessary for the AOE animation to work. On the left hand goes the most powerful dagger (and single bladed daggers are the most powerful ones) for Deathblow.

 

Hmm, from a bit of testing that I did, Poisoned Weapons did increase Hidden Blades' damage by a decent amount.  It isn't something that I prioritized getting, but there aren't really any better alternatives at this point.

Thanks for the tip regarding the daggers, though; I wasn't aware of that.

[Selea]

Hmm, from a bit of testing that I did, Poisoned Weapons did increase Hidden Blades' damage by a decent amount.  It isn't something that I prioritized getting, but there aren't really any better alternatives at this point.
 

The problem is that you need to first hit with a normal attack then, when the poison is in effect, hit with an ability (elsewhere the damage increase doesn't work). With a dragon it doesn't break the flow to do so but in normal encounters yes, because you need to go out of stealth to attack and so you miss the ability use. Or you first use PW and attack everyone to have the poison stick and then you go around doing the usual or it breaks the flow of "stealth + ability".

[Matth85]

Poisoned Weapon doesn't increase any modifiers, just the base damage. A few numbers tested earlier today. That might help deciding if it is worth the time for your build:

 

Archer Auto Attack Test. 4 tests, 10 shot each. Isolated case. No flanking:

 

Average Auto Attack without poison: 85

Average Auto Attack With poison: 85

Average Auto Attack on poisoned target: 100

 

17,6% increase

 

----------

Same case as above. Tested by using Longshot at max range.

 

Average Longshot without poison: 560

Average Longshot with poison: 560

Average Longshot on poisoned target: 600

 

7.3% increased damage

 

 

------

Same setup as above with melee auto attacks. 20 attacks done :

 

Auto Attack Without Poison: 81,15 = 81

Auto Attack With Poison = 95,7 = 96

 

 

17.9% increases damage

 

----------

 

Spinning Blade, melee, same as the other. isolated case. 20 attacks done:

 

Average without poison: 63,2 = 63

Average with poison: 74.55 = 75

 

17.8% increased damage

 

-----------

 

Ala: Longshot didn't do 25% more damage, but the base damage was altered by 17.6% then the modifer was added.

 

So all abiltiies that work with high damage modifiers loes out (600% on longshot equals 7% damage increase), while abilities that uses low damage modifiers and rely on pure weapon damage(Spinning Blades, and probably Hidden Blades) get closer ot 25%:

I am uncertain if the damage is calculated before or after armor.

[zeypher]

yea while small increase problem is limited slots, that is what neuters PW for me.

[TurianRebels]

Can a Reaver beat this DPS? 
 


Maybe with Rampage?  I'm still in the process of making a Reaver, so I'm curious.

Did Highland Ravager just get bursted? XD

[Xarius478]

Thanks for the insight, everyone (and the data is appreciated, Matth85).  It seems odd to me that the enemy must be poisoned for the damage increase to take effect, as I don't think the tooltip suggests that.  It's definitely not worthwhile in normal encounters, as you pointed out, Selea.

[Selea]

Thanks for the insight, everyone (and the data is appreciated, Matth85).  It seems odd to me that the enemy must be poisoned for the damage increase to take effect, as I don't think the tooltip suggests that.  It's definitely not worthwhile in normal encounters, as you pointed out, Selea.

No, actually the tooltip says so: "while Poisoned Weapons is active" (i.e. the effect of the ability must be active on the target for the damage to apply).
However at first sight you can read and interpret the thing differently, yes. All the tooltips are somewhat in this way, sadly.

[Xarius478]

No, actually the tooltip says so: "while Poisoned Weapons is active" (i.e. the effect of the ability must be active on the target for the damage to apply).
However at first sight you can read and interpret the thing differently, yes. All the tooltips are somewhat in this way, sadly.

 

I see where you're coming from, but that suggests to me that the ability merely needs to be toggled on.  For the sake of curiosity, has anyone tested whether the damage bonus is applied when the enemy is poisoned through other means, such as an upgraded Toxic Cloud?

Some of the tooltips are indeed unclear, though.  For example, I underestimated Deathblow for a long time because I misinterpreted its tooltip.