59 réponses à ce sujet

[Fullmetall21]

IMHO, Templars fit in right between the juggernaut-esque champion and the Sustained DPS Beast Reaver. They can be either off-tanks, or amazing

 

burst damage dealers. I dislike the idea of a templar tank because even though you are damn hard to kill and can deal some damage, balancing

 

between attack and defensive stats on your gear is what is going to get you. Because the champion can survive anything and everything while

 

dealing almost little damage (with tank build,) and because Reaver will out DPS you if you are built to tank as a templar. IMO, templars truly shine as

 

2H burst DPS's. With the right gear and build you can one-shot anything that is susceptible to physical effects on NM. Champion is basically the god-

 

tank that doesn't even have to worry about is guard meter breaking if the person is half-decent. They usually are pretty bad at damage dealing, but I

 

know somebody in this sub-forum made a thread about his 2H champion DPS build, which is worth a look. Hope this helps! 

 

Being able to deal massive damage on your own is good don't take me wrong but it's not what a templar is about. You say being a sword and shield templar isn't good because you will not have optimal stats. While there is truth to that, it doesn't automatically mean that the overall dps would suffer and would only matter if you plan to go solo in which case the Champion fares better.

 

If you take the tanking route of the templar you can still hit for over 4-5k damage with WoH + SP combo and while that is not as high as the 2H version of like 8-10k you can fit an extra companion in the group since you won't need a dedicated tank. Cole will outdps your templar on anything outside WoH + SP (and even that is debatable) so it really depends on what you like. Personal efficiency or group efficiency.

 

Also while it is badass to wield a huge sword or axe the S&S talents are unfortunately vastly superior to the respective 2H ones, not to mention that 2H talents have broken detonators (Mighty Blow still does 1 extra damage from the detonation). You can still take Flow of Battle as a S&S warrior since passives are weapon agnostic. 

 

Of course all of that accounts that you actually do use a dedicated tank and not your own 2H warrior with a dps spec in which case you are right, although that is not something I would recommend to someone who hasn't played warriors in the game for a long time.

[Reman]

Being able to deal massive damage on your own is good don't take me wrong but it's not what a templar is about. You say being a sword and shield templar isn't good because you will not have optimal stats. While there is truth to that, it doesn't automatically mean that the overall dps would suffer and would only matter if you plan to go solo in which case the Champion fares better.

 

If you take the tanking route of the templar you can still hit for over 4-5k damage with WoH + SP combo and while that is not as high as the 2H version of like 8-10k you can fit an extra companion in the group since you won't need a dedicated tank. Cole will outdps your templar on anything outside WoH + SP (and even that is debatable) so it really depends on what you like. Personal efficiency or group efficiency.

 

Also while it is badass to wield a huge sword or axe the S&S talents are unfortunately vastly superior to the respective 2H ones, not to mention that 2H talents have broken detonators (Mighty Blow still does 1 extra damage from the detonation). You can still take Flow of Battle as a S&S warrior since passives are weapon agnostic. 

 

Of course all of that accounts that you actually do use a dedicated tank and not your own 2H warrior with a dps spec in which case you are right, although that is not something I would recommend to someone who hasn't played warriors in the game for a long time.

Yeah Mighty blow really does need a fix, but the 2H and Battlemaster trees are still good, regardless if their tankier counterparts beats them at their role. My gripe 

 

about the SnS templar and just the templar detonator combo in general is that it if the enemy isn't a demon, it relies on if your target is immune to physical 

 

effects, as the famous templar combo relies entirely on the stun plus spellpurge combo in order to do damage. While Templar tank is good for group

 

efficiency, the 2H templar can help just as much because they spill the same points into the same tree, giving them the same group buffs. The champion helps the

 

group by giving the eenmies something to look at, keeping them in one area (line in the sand,) a massive AoE taunt focus, invulnerability with a cd reduction with 

 

guard gained for every hit received while active. Plus, and one of the most useful for single targets, is the taunt that causes a debuff in enemy damage resistance.

 

The templar tank and the champion can get both the vanguard and one-handed tree, while the templar tank definitely gets useful group buffs, the champion is an

 

aggro and guard machine. Plus, the 2H templar can get the exact same perks as the one-handed in the templar tree, add that he can do more damage than the 

 

other one while retaining the same buffs, which proves to a very good DPS (although debatable outclassed by assassins for example,) he provides amazing group 

 

buffs. While I do agree that the stats do not mean everything in the case of a templar, they still are significant enough to take into account. I'm not saying that the 

 

SnS templar is bad for tanking, they are quite viable and useful. It is just that a two-handed templar can provide the same buffs while still doing damage rivaling 

 

or doing more than the other DPS specs.

[VilniusNastavnik]

I have to ask.. has anyone found any actual use for Line in the sand? I have been mucking around with blackwall, cass and bull to work out which I want to play as on my warrior run through.

Templar is good.. would be better if it got the passive the MP templar got where abilities also damage mages and anything with lyrium in their blood rather than only demons.. but situationality is an issue. Demons are not that common compared to Reds and Vints. 

Champion I am still trying to work out. I love the abilities as I often play as a legionnaire on MP but I would go 2H rather than SnSh because a SnSh Blackwall just keeps swinging.. not doing much damage, but also not taking much damage. 

Reaver is one I also enjoy on MP but I do not want to find myself ending up just dragon raging all the things. Ironbull does not drop in nightmare with a full reaver build with armor emphasis on crit chance, strength and healing bonus's..

 

[Reman]

I have to ask.. has anyone found any actual use for Line in the sand? I have been mucking around with blackwall, cass and bull to work out which I want to play as on my warrior run through.

Templar is good.. would be better if it got the passive the MP templar got where abilities also damage mages and anything with lyrium in their blood rather than only demons.. but situationality is an issue. Demons are not that common compared to Reds and Vints. 

Champion I am still trying to work out. I love the abilities as I often play as a legionnaire on MP but I would go 2H rather than SnSh because a SnSh Blackwall just keeps swinging.. not doing much damage, but also not taking much damage. 

Reaver is one I also enjoy on MP but I do not want to find myself ending up just dragon raging all the things. Ironbull does not drop in nightmare with a full reaver build with armor emphasis on crit chance, strength and healing bonus's..

 

LoL tank life is boring, that is why I am never doing a tank warrior or KE

[Biotic Flash Kick]

champion is more fun

 

i love trudging in a battle with 7 melee enemies and popping counterstrike ->walking fort -> whirlwind

[zeypher]

I have to ask.. has anyone found any actual use for Line in the sand? I have been mucking around with blackwall, cass and bull to work out which I want to play as on my warrior run through.

Templar is good.. would be better if it got the passive the MP templar got where abilities also damage mages and anything with lyrium in their blood rather than only demons.. but situationality is an issue. Demons are not that common compared to Reds and Vints. 

Champion I am still trying to work out. I love the abilities as I often play as a legionnaire on MP but I would go 2H rather than SnSh because a SnSh Blackwall just keeps swinging.. not doing much damage, but also not taking much damage. 

Reaver is one I also enjoy on MP but I do not want to find myself ending up just dragon raging all the things. Ironbull does not drop in nightmare with a full reaver build with armor emphasis on crit chance, strength and healing bonus's..

 

Problem with reaver is their bloody animation. Fits a unarmed class sure, but not a weapon based class. Besides 1 sec i have weapon in my hand next ms later its magically at my back what?? Look for reaver to work they either replace the animations or make it so a reavers weapon is not displayed. ATM it is just annoying.

[zeypher]

champion is more fun

 

i love trudging in a battle with 7 melee enemies and popping counterstrike ->walking fort -> whirlwind

Or as a templar i charge WOH+purge and 7 dead mooks.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Or as a templar i charge WOH+purge and 7 dead mooks.

on nightmare?

Jeez

[Reman]

on nightmare?

Jeez

It's completely achievable.

[Fullmetall21]

Yeah Mighty blow really does need a fix, but the 2H and Battlemaster trees are still good, regardless if their tankier counterparts beats them at their role. My gripe 

 

about the SnS templar and just the templar detonator combo in general is that it if the enemy isn't a demon, it relies on if your target is immune to physical 

 

effects, as the famous templar combo relies entirely on the stun plus spellpurge combo in order to do damage. While Templar tank is good for group

 

efficiency, the 2H templar can help just as much because they spill the same points into the same tree, giving them the same group buffs. The champion helps the

 

group by giving the eenmies something to look at, keeping them in one area (line in the sand,) a massive AoE taunt focus, invulnerability with a cd reduction with 

 

guard gained for every hit received while active. Plus, and one of the most useful for single targets, is the taunt that causes a debuff in enemy damage resistance.

 

The templar tank and the champion can get both the vanguard and one-handed tree, while the templar tank definitely gets useful group buffs, the champion is an

 

aggro and guard machine. Plus, the 2H templar can get the exact same perks as the one-handed in the templar tree, add that he can do more damage than the 

 

other one while retaining the same buffs, which proves to a very good DPS (although debatable outclassed by assassins for example,) he provides amazing group 

 

buffs. While I do agree that the stats do not mean everything in the case of a templar, they still are significant enough to take into account. I'm not saying that the 

 

SnS templar is bad for tanking, they are quite viable and useful. It is just that a two-handed templar can provide the same buffs while still doing damage rivaling 

 

or doing more than the other DPS specs.

 

As I said personal preference I'm a team player I don't like going solo (although I did it once with a champion) so I'm all about group efficiency. However at a high level the extra defenses of the Champion are an overkill. With tier 3 gear and the S&S passives you take close to zero damage regardless so the champion really cuts it for To the Death. The Templar is well versed in all around combat and only falls short on boss battles. There is one thing that is unique to the 2H templar and that is to die on purpose and the revive and use horn of valor. That allows you to have +100% damage for 10 secs a thing that would be impossible or really hard as a tank oriented Templar.

 

EDIT I would like to add that while every skill in the 2H tree is bugged on the detonators (whirlwind and mighty blow) the S&S version get 2 functional detonators (Lunge and Slash & Shield Bash) with the addition of a situational primer (upgraded Payback Strike). And while these skill won't do as much damage as a Mighty Blow (on a knocked down target) in a team environment the S&S templar will perform better or at least that how I see it.

[Reman]

As I said personal preference I'm a team player I don't like going solo (although I did it once with a champion) so I'm all about group efficiency. However at a high level the extra defenses of the Champion are an overkill. With tier 3 gear and the S&S passives you take close to zero damage regardless so the champion really cuts it for To the Death. The Templar is well versed in all around combat and only falls short on boss battles. There is one thing that is unique to the 2H templar and that is to die on purpose and the revive and use horn of valor. That allows you to have +100% damage for 10 secs a thing that would be impossible or really hard as a tank oriented Templar.

It is overkill, but you gotta admit having a blackwall with guard and health gained per strike soloing a dragon while your inquisitor watches is pretty hilarious.

[rayx]

Or as a templar i charge WOH+purge and 7 dead mooks.

 

Unless you find out they are 7 undead mooks. Or something immune to spirit/stun effect.

[zeypher]

A well built warrior even 2 handed can achieve enough defences to take 1 damage from most of stuff. Undead are annoying i hated exalted plains cause of this as my combo did not work and blessed blades is also bugged.

 

I always go to hissing wastes asap, a bit of struggles but one can get weapons and armour and good t3 materials. Finally i like Cass as my main tank and the best part is templar abilities stack. Entire group has 20% more damage against demons 20% elemental resistances and what not.

[rayx]

A well built warrior even 2 handed can achieve enough defences to take 1 damage from most of stuff. Undead are annoying i hated exalted plains cause of this as my combo did not work and blessed blades is also bugged.

 

I always go to hissing wastes asap, a bit of struggles but one can get weapons and armour and good t3 materials. Finally i like Cass as my main tank and the best part is templar abilities stack. Entire group has 20% more damage against demons 20% elemental resistances and what not.

 

I just hate so much about this "not be able to nuke undead and arcane horror" stuff. I mean, come on, technically undead and arcane horror are demons(right?) and tmeplar's ability is supposed to be good at dealing with those things. I can't even use WOH hurt them, that is ridiculous.

[zeypher]

I just hate so much about this "not be able to nuke undead and arcane horror" stuff. I mean, come on, technically undead and arcane horror are demons(right?) and tmeplar's ability is supposed to be good at dealing with those things. I can't even use WOH hurt them, that is ridiculous.

They are demons and we cant do ****. I really think bioware needs to fire their current combat designers all of them. Get someone proper to make a balanced system which works properly.

 

I have already stated but this game has the most uninspired and broken combat i have ever seen in a AAA game. Broken detonators broken abilities. abilities work randomly. KE a 3 button class to win, same with reavers, rogues completely annihilate the game.

 

I mean who thought that 300% weapon damage thousand cuts was a balanced skill. So yea im not a fan of their combat as everything is so badly balanced that its not fun. Just explain to me why specialization skills etc are bloody enchantments, how the hell does a arrow do a shield bash or a staff do hidden blades.

 

So yea not a fan as the combat is completely broken that they need to go back to the drawing board and need new people to do it. 

 

There is a damn good reason this franchise has not found a identity of its own, its because they keep trying to imitate stuff and keep failing at it. Pick a direction for you combat and commit to it 100% and balance it properly. Brand new systems every game is a terrible idea and it shows that the combat system has become shallower and shallower in easy sequel. Entropy tree is now necromancers REJOICE.

[Reman]

I just hate so much about this "not be able to nuke undead and arcane horror" stuff. I mean, come on, technically undead and arcane horror are demons(right?) and tmeplar's ability is supposed to be good at dealing with those things. I can't even use WOH hurt them, that is ridiculous.

you can still use the stun+spellpurge on them. WoH doesn't do as much damage as spellpurge on it's own. Although I do think that Templar does need a rework. The only reason why they aren't one of the best DPS's overall is because of their physical conditions handicap and the relatively long cd's they have. 

[zeypher]

You cannot do the templar combo on undead, they can be stunned but purge does not initiate the combo. I have tried it, eldritch combo does not work on them. We could use our basic combo via mighty blow or whirlwind but TOO BAD they both are broken as well.

[Reman]

You cannot do the templar combo on undead, they can be stunned but purge does not initiate the combo. I have tried it, eldritch combo does not work on them. We could use our basic combo via mighty blow or whirlwind but TOO BAD they both are broken as well.

?!?!? What are you talking about? I just did the combo yesterday against undead in the Fallow mire on Xbone. WoH+Spellpurge or Pommel Strike+ Spellpurge for over 13k.

[zeypher]

Does not work for me in temple of dirthmen or exalted plains. Worked in fallow mire but not the other areas. I have no clue why but exalted pains was annoying as a templar.

[Reman]

Does not work for me in temple of dirthmen or exalted plains. Worked in fallow mire but not the other areas. I have no clue why but exalted pains was annoying as a templar.

" We're working on it."

                            - Bioware

[zeypher]

Well they got till march then im done.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Does not work for me in temple of dirthmen or exalted plains. Worked in fallow mire but not the other areas. I have no clue why but exalted pains was annoying as a templar.

because maybe those 'undead' counted as demons?

hence rifts? 

[zeypher]

Problem was i could stun thyem but spell purge would not detonate them. No idea why and that map also has arcane horrors who are immune to templar stuff as well. Why did they have to make it spirit why not divine or holy damage or whatever.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Problem was i could stun thyem but spell purge would not detonate them. No idea why and that map also has arcane horrors who are immune to templar stuff as well. Why did they have to make it spirit why not divine or holy damage or whatever.

Because NO ONE USES WARRIORS ANYMORE

HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT TEMPESTS AND KNIGHT ENCHANTER?

 

DRAGON 4 WILL FEATURE NO WARRIOR CLASSES EXCEPT FOR COMPANIONS AND MULTIPLAYER 

Because here are Bioware, EA makes our decisions for us. 

[zeypher]

Yup that is what it looks lie, each progressive game a warrior has kept on losing options.