44 réponses à ce sujet

[xlm1994]

I know that stalker/shade/fear demons are designed to attack whoever stands at the back of the team, but the others?  As an archer I don't usually take the first shot and stay far away behind the team (really far) yet every time enemy archers just start up attacking me.  And as a warrior I always charge in the front and hit what ever I first see, but I was just ignored unless I taunt.  

 

The most ridiculous case is: a rogue in the team either disconnected or was afk, just stood at the entrance doing nothing.  When I opened a room, spiders came out, going all the way to the entrance of the map and ignored every attack from me.  Seriously?  Why?  That makes no sense!

[Cirvante]

Enemy aggro is compeltely retarded in this game. We played a game where two people were clearing the last fights on the stage and two people were raiding a treasure room. The chest spawned a Revenant and he ran outside and went straight for our teammates ~50m away. I even hit him with a walking bomb on the way out and he still completely ignored us.

[Broganisity]

..Whenever I'm hitting an enemy in the back as he chases after a teammate in hiding, I find myself wondering "Why..."

just "Why..."

...for two days.

(But I have taunts to it's all good.)

[xlm1994]

So what exactly are they designed to do?  What drove the spiders to ignore two obvious targets and go through several rooms to attack an innocent person who didn't harm anyone?

[MadMaximoff]

There definitely seems to be an Aggro bug that even affects the Commanders.

Many times on my Sin I've spotted a commander trudging along alone after planting the standard, so decided to beat on them, took them down half hp and they still ignored me, walking on mindlessly into the team.

[xlm1994]

I really hope Amelia could see this thread, or I might just have to behave poorly to get the attention...

[Aetika]

I always walk towards pack of enemies like dumbo, all ready and with my shield up and they just fly past me to eat the mages.

I can hack´n slash them from behind and they won´t give a damn.

[Zakmonster85]

Not sure if it's an aggro bug or intended design.

 

If intended, there's a simple fix - get the tanks to stand at the back, while the squishies charge forward.

[Dorje Sylas]

I'll just put it down to BioWare's bad AI. I still find it hilarious how AI in ME3MP would walk backwards up the stairs of Firebase White, aiming at the roof, because that's where their "target" is. I didn't really expect much improvement there, almost no AAA studio I can think of seems to put serious time and effort into getting computer AI up to par with the resources they've sunk into environment graphics/physics. Its why I laughed at Ubisoft's claim that AI was the reason of the high minimum requirements on AC:Unity. 

 

There are clearly things wrong with the routines driving the "threat" system when it sends freshly spawned units clear across the map at an inactive player. If I had to take a guess its over weighting on the "distance" of the "back rank". The freshly spawned rogue is "behind" (relative to global path lines) the closets target, likely has a higher DPS weapon, and is "away" from "allies". Depending how the weighting is setup this may be a larger "threat" target than the Warrior who's actively attacking.

 

Emergent behaviors like this are hard to theory craft in a limited pool of internal testers, especially if you don't sit down first and plot out a fairly good list of possible outlier influences. You really need someone in the room who's joy in life is to think of the most devious ways to break all the toys, and to take that person seriously when they come up with something nonsensical.

 

Although to be fair, wouldn't you try to bull past the low-damage high-armor "warrior" and get at the squishy high-DPS casters?

[Catastrophy]

As a player of Neverwinter Nights and the former DA games I can tell you: It's gotten better. Mage playthrough in these games -> Ragequit.

[J. Peterman]

Enemy aggro is compeltely retarded in this game. We played a game where two people were clearing the last fights on the stage and two people were raiding a treasure room. The chest spawned a Revenant and he ran outside and went straight for our teammates ~50m away. I even hit him with a walking bomb on the way out and he still completely ignored us.

 

I had that happen also and couldn't stop laughing. The 4th player had just spawned into the game, and he made a beeline for him. We couldn't keep up chasing after him.

[Scorpio989]

It has been said by the developers that enemies tend to aggro on archers first. An example they had shown was an assassin using stealth to get past the melee and go directly for the archer...

 

I have had a glitch happen before that basically proves that archers have some sort of priority for aggro. My group opened a treasure room door which somehow got the whole entire 4/5 map charging in at us. The thing that really struck me as a Reaver was that all the enemies would run right past me at the entrance to the room to get to our two archers who who were way in back by the chest. 

[IamTheAttack]

Also, packs of mobs and mostly archers ll focus their first hit on whoever aggro them. So if you don't have a lego to taunt them directly after engage, don't pull as an archer or keeper, you ll avoid a lot of troubles.

 

However, spiders and treasure room boss are definitely retarded

[LemurFromTheId]

[--] almost no AAA studio I can think of seems to put serious time and effort into getting computer AI up to par with the resources they've sunk into environment graphics/physics. Its why I laughed at Ubisoft's claim that AI was the reason of the high minimum requirements on AC:Unity. 

 

This is something that has been bugging me for years. It's not that AI is all that hard to code, it's just that everyone settles for bad when no one is pushing the envelope. I still haven't seen a shooter with noticeably better AI than what Descent 2 had back in 1996.

[ALTBOULI]

I had that happen also and couldn't stop laughing. The 4th player had just spawned into the game, and he made a beeline for him. We couldn't keep up chasing after him.

Those spiders yesterday man poor pug barely got into the game

[J. Peterman]

Those spiders yesterday man poor pug barely got into the game

 

Better him than me. I hate those damn things.

[simpatikool]

Not sure if it's an aggro bug or intended design.

 

If intended, there's a simple fix - get the tanks to stand at the back, while the squishies charge forward.

 

When I play a warrior, I don't charge at the enemies anymore. I just hang out by the mages and archers and then attack them. Saves me a lot of hassle.

[Flytarget]

In some other games I have played in the past where threat is a factor every spell or action that is made produces threat. So if you have a keeper casting barrier that someone else has not hit then it would make sense that they would have a higher threat than other characters. I am not sure if this is how this game is programmed however because I have observed spiders going directly to the weaker targets after kicking a door without the weaker targets doing anything.

[maelstromm15]

This makes me feel like the agrro skills are bugged. Imagine the hilarity if Threatening Presence actually REDUCED aggro by 25%, and the rogue/mage skills INCREASED aggro. Great times. And people have said they don't seem to work as advertised.

[Dorje Sylas]

This is something that has been bugging me for years. It's not that AI is all that hard to code, it's just that everyone settles for bad when no one is pushing the envelope. I still haven't seen a shooter with noticeably better AI than what Descent 2 had back in 1996.

It can be actually be tough. I used to do a bit of Agent Oriented Programming and modeling for my degree. One of hardest parts is environment awareness, if you are just running in a flat gridded 2D environment its much easier. 3D is a bit harder with pathing around objects. However in DAI I've seen both allied and enemy AI shoot directly (and continuously) into walls and hills. Things that should be solved by a single frame ray-cast before going into an attack animation. Saw someone's game where Sera and a Templar Archer were seeing who could drill to the center of a hill first.

After that is making sure your "rules of behavior" are sound. Making sure you aren't setting up conditions like say the AI using the global awareness to chase down an inactive just spawned player on the opposite side of the map.

It's has hard as everyting else. It just isn't given the same FOCUS in development that "sparkle physics" (my derogatory name of GPU driven extra graphics) do. Appearance over substance has been the order of day for easily a solid decade and a half. People have been buying, selling, and making most games for their looks... not for their brains.

[veramis]

One of the most important qualities of game AI is unpredictability. This game achieves unpredictability through retarded AI. Regardless of the means used, the goal was very laudably achieved, and you must give bioware credit for their failure to create intelligent AI.

[veramis]

^Bioware may have pioneered a new subsect of artificial intelligence: artificial retardation.

[VilniusNastavnik]

Thankfully as a lego, I charge ahead, get into the middle of the group and taunt them before the squishies get in range. Had a 2 man routine run yesterday for shits and giggles with coldflame, he was an archer, I was my lego.. not many got back to him. But I agree, the AI is rubbish. in 4 player games, the rogue runs off to plant the flag and either lantern or stealth their way back.. I stand in the doorway ready to defend the squishies and they run right past me.. It does get rather annoying.

[veramis]

Vilnius, as a shield character, you have to keep on swinging your weapon toward the enemy and try to stand between them and your teammate like you're playing american football. Sometimes they may run past you, but eventually, they will go "WHOA WHERED U COME FROM?" and then will stick onto you until they die.

[VilniusNastavnik]

yeah, I usually kill them with a few axe swings to their back before they get away, or a well timed payback strike to knock them on the ass in the middle off the doorway, but the AI should automatically say oh **** warrior.. and give priority to them until the squishies generate damage aggro.