44 réponses à ce sujet

[Cryos_Feron]

It has been said by the developers that enemies tend to aggro on archers first. An example they had shown was an assassin using stealth to get past the melee and go directly for the archer...

 

I have had a glitch happen before that basically proves that archers have some sort of priority for aggro. My group opened a treasure room door which somehow got the whole entire 4/5 map charging in at us. The thing that really struck me as a Reaver was that all the enemies would run right past me at the entrance to the room to get to our two archers who who were way in back by the chest. 

But please be honest:

Aren't you going for the enemy archers first, too?

 

So, to some extent Bioware has done the right thing. But maybe they meant tooo well. 

[Beerfish]

It's tough to build up guard at times when my little dwarf is standing there, shield up and the 27 enemies run past me to beat on the archer and keeper.

 

The danger of archers not being able to hold off and shoot until after the tank draws aggro.

[ammomagnet]

When I play a warror...I just hang out by the mages and archers and then attack them. Saves me a lot of hassle.

I'd like to hang back and beat on my teams mages and archers too sometimes

[Hurkaleez]

I like the AI going after the weaker members but there should be some distance restriction on this behavior. Over 20m away say and they ignore you.

[LemurFromTheId]

It can be actually be tough. I used to do a bit of Agent Oriented Programming and modeling for my degree. One of hardest parts is environment awareness, if you are just running in a flat gridded 2D environment its much easier. 3D is a bit harder with pathing around objects. However in DAI I've seen both allied and enemy AI shoot directly (and continuously) into walls and hills. Things that should be solved by a single frame ray-cast before going into an attack animation. Saw someone's game where Sera and a Templar Archer were seeing who could drill to the center of a hill first.

After that is making sure your "rules of behavior" are sound. Making sure you aren't setting up conditions like say the AI using the global awareness to chase down an inactive just spawned player on the opposite side of the map.

It's has hard as everyting else. It just isn't given the same FOCUS in development that "sparkle physics" (my derogatory name of GPU driven extra graphics) do. Appearance over substance has been the order of day for easily a solid decade and a half. People have been buying, selling, and making most games for their looks... not for their brains.

 

Yeah, it's far from trivial. But it's also an area of game programming that hasn't really evolved during the past 15 years, as far as mainstream shooters go. I think it might only take one really popular, groundbreaking game that showed others what can be achieved by focusing on good AI...

 

I guess the popularity of multiplayer is one major reason for the current situation. Why would a game need AI when you can fight actual human beings instead?

[Dorje Sylas]

Yeah, it's far from trivial. But it's also an area of game programming that hasn't really evolved during the past 15 years, as far as mainstream shooters go. I think it might only take one really popular, groundbreaking game that showed others what can be achieved by focusing on good AI...

 

I guess the popularity of multiplayer is one major reason for the current situation. Why would a game need AI when you can fight actual human beings instead?

 

I do blame console multiplayer for a chunk of that. I also blame console hardware for being generally under powered and AI being the easiest to "fake it" with far less processor intensive scripting tricks. Especially when trying to squeeze every drop of performance. Which is now coming back to bite many recent games in the rear, because the "people" in these gorgeous worlds are acting like they've had large chunks of their brains removed (which isn't far from the truth).

 

Sadly you can't market good AI the way you can market "Glitter". Like VR, Touchscreens, and Haptics its part of the "experience". And we feel it when its "wrong", when units don't behave appropriately for the environment, or perform very "gamey" behaviors.

 

It's why I deeply fear for Star Wars Battlefront. While the AI in Battlefront wasn't the greatest it created a very different game play experience. Dice is showing off "Glitter" and highly fidelity CG reproductions of movie assets. They aren't showing us the AI Bots, the Galaxy Conquest Mode, and other things that made Battlefront more than a Battlefield knockoff with a Star Wars skin. 

 

IMO the best showcase as to why AI development is important is the DragonBall Z League (

Spoiler

 ) which puts teams of AI vs AI. "Coaches" of the teams customize different settings of the AI before a match, but once its running its hands off and its all down to the computer. 

[TheThirdRace]

This is what I expect from a "logical" AI:

1. Stealth should prioritize Range as long as they have line of sight, otherwise target melee
2. Range should prioritize Range as long as they have line of sight AND are in range, otherwise target melee
3. Melee should prioritize Melee as long as they have line of sight, otherwise target Range

It's really not that hard or complicated, is?

[Stozzy]

A logical AI from the start would typically go for the nearest target until other players became a threat. Then it would fall upon dps count and group support. Typically healing and buffing classes are to be targeted first, thus the need for taunting and threats. This is the logical hierarchy in most group based games.

[TheThirdRace]

A logical AI from the start would typically go for the nearest target until other players became a threat. Then it would fall upon dps count and group support. Typically healing and buffing classes are to be targeted first, thus the need for taunting and threats. This is the logical hierarchy in most group based games.

 

I wasn't basing my comment on how other games are doing it, but more on how it would play out in a medieval war. Personally, I think the taunting mechanics are usually ridiculous.

 

If I was an archer in a medieval war and an enemy swordsman insult me with jokes about my mother, I would still target the enemy archers first. Unless the enemy swordsman is about to hit me, in which case my swordsman allies failed their protecting mission. And if I was a swordsman, before going for an archer I would sure as hell stop to protect myself from an enemy swordsman hurling at me with a bloody greatsword. You know, basic survival instinct...

[LemurFromTheId]

You know, basic survival instinct...

 

This is precisely what this game doesn't have. My archer was just one-shot by a venatori archer who was being hacked to pieces by our templar. That kind of stuff just doesn't make any sense.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Observation: wood planks make solid, reliable cover. Suggestion: fire behind Sidony. #DragonAge #DAMP #ThorntonsWordsofWisdom

[Catastrophy]

 

Slight flaw in your logic:

In Medieval warfare,[...]

 

This ain't medieval warfare - it's a close combat skirmish encounter - not a battle with set pieces.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Well if we are basing the games mechanics around medieval warefare then archers should be firing in volleys from up to 350m away before we can even see them. Also, ranged never attacks range because they are never in range of each other so this idea is just silly. Ranged is there to thin out and pepper melee units, destroying morale before the vanguard reaches the defenders.

Arrows should also always be 1 hit kills or incapacitates as the more advanced bodkins can punch through plate armor no problem, meaning a hit will almost always kill you or at the very least take you out of the battle.

Fortunately, video games arent strict about following historical accuracies otherwise we would have very boring and frustrating games.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

This is something that has been bugging me for years. It's not that AI is all that hard to code, it's just that everyone settles for bad when no one is pushing the envelope. I still haven't seen a shooter with noticeably better AI than what Descent 2 had back in 1996.

Well, F.E.A.R.?
Original game got awesome AI that was spelled Artificial Intelligence, not Artificial Idiocy as it is these days.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

You know what I'm thinking on the matter? It wasn't all that bad, you know. There were days of DA:O, where the armor type and rating drew most attention.

The heavier the armor up to the massive type - the more the starting aggro.

The more the armor rank - the more the starting aggro.

The more defence (evasion rating) - the less starting aggro, which allowed archers to stay pretty much safe until some really damaging ability used.

 

So I'd just say Biowares have moved on from sane game mechanics to gay toleranting and romances for every taste. Which, in fact, isn't truly bad or good. It's just how things are.

[-PenguinFetish-]

So I'd just stay Biowares have moved on from sane game mechanics to gay toleranting and romances for every taste. Which, in fact, isn't truly bad or good. It's just how things are.

While also shoving a massive console shaped ****** up PC users ass in the process in terms of performance and features.

Bioware are now console peasants. Another studio which is ball-and-chaining its titles to cater for the serfs who demand the same product as the one a vastly superior platform recieves.

[Trickshaw]

I always love it when bad guys from two rooms over run right past my team that engaged them and make a bee line straight for me.

Kid you not, I'll be looting gold taking my sweet time, allowing my team to get kills and in runs 3 footmen straight for me. I've had one random dude come over on voice and be all like, "Dude, these guys got a deep seated hatred for you. You're not even attacking and they're just all up in your business." This is on my archer btw.

If I play my hunter, I can DPS non-stop and pull aggro maybe 3 times a match.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Speculation: Hall (yes, the character's name is "Hall"; no, I don't know why anyone would name their child Hall, even in a fantasy universe; must be a Millennial) was the knob that caused Carniphorous to derp up and give the Herald-thingy her/his glowy powers which is why all of the bad guys want to murder him in the face.