1162 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone2]

I bet if Barris was pro-mage, I wonder how many templar supporters would suddenly turn against him

[Ceoldoren]

All we know is that Barris protects mages. Do we even know if he's that traditional of a templar and is firmly against mage freedom? What if he turns out to be ok with mage freedom, would he still be the "model" templar for the pro-templars?

Yes, he would still be a Model Templar. It's not about whether he supports mage freedom or not. It's about whether he upholds the values of the order. That is, courage, loyalty. and guarding the mages. He does all of these things. And he does them proudly. Not to mention he's just a good man. I imagine he's for mage freedom. Not entirely, but more freedom than they have. And I think that's great. He's an excellent leader, templar, and he's a damn fine man. 

 

So yes, he would still be the Model Templar

[riverbanks]

It sounds like you want a flawless character, and that isn't going to happen. If those two don't fit your criteria, then none of the straight or gay romances do either.

 

I don't want a flawless character, I want a righteous/white knight archetype character, I said that in the exact same post you just quoted. And no, your examples don't fit. Is it hard for you to understand what people mean when they say "I want a knightly gay character"? No? I want a knightly bi character. See? Same thing.

 

Enough with this, in any case. I know you like to be confrontational about everything, but this is not the appropriate thread for this subject.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Yes, he would still be a Model Templar. It's not about whether he supports mage freedom or not. It's about whether he upholds the values of the order. That is, courage, loyalty. and guarding the mages. He does all of these things. And he does them proudly. Not to mention he's just a good man. I imagine he's for mage freedom. Not entirely, but more freedom than they have. And I think that great. He's an excellent leader, templar, and he's a damn fine man. 

 

So yes, he would still be the Model Templar

Yet people seems to believe that Evangeline or Thrask do not uphold the same values... did they stray and Barris did not? That is what I have an issue with.

[Ceoldoren]

Yet people seems to believe that Evangeline or Thrask do not uphold the same values... did they stray and Barris did not? That is what I have an issue with.

The point is they gave up on the order. Regardless of their values, they left. Barris stayed and worked to make the templars better. That's what makes him the model templar. 

[Br3admax]

Neither are roguish, tricksy, liars and thieves, 

Josephine's a bard and a diplomat. A roguish, tricksy, liar twice over. Merrill being a blood mage is also kind of roguish and tricksy if you ask me. 

[Sports72Xtrm]

The point is they gave up on the order. Regardless of their values. They left, Barris stayed and worked to make the templars better. That is what makes him the model templar. 

Thrask did not leave the order, he tried to overthrow Meredith and return them to their original path to promote harmony between mages and templars. Cullen's the one who turned a blind eye to Meredith's corruption. Evangeline was run off when she stood up for the mages against a tyrannical Lambert. They've sacrificed and though I give Barris his due, people focus on his accolades as if he is more of a templar than others when the other two have proven themselves as well. Or does being a model templar only mean something when one gets laurels for it?

[Xilizhra]

And you think negotiations would of actually worked ? It certainly didn't do anything in Kirkwall. Not to mention the mages would of taken no less than. 'You're free.' 

 

You have to admit how dangerous it would be for mages to go completely unchecked right ? I mean, I don't agree with the circles. But I still think tempalars are needed. It's too dangerous for both the mages and the common folk for no one to watch them. 

 

Honestly the whole war was pointless. But neither side was going to stand down unless they got an unreasonable victory. Tempalrs wanted mages back under full circle control and mages wanted full freedom. 

 

At the end of the day neither side was truly just. The mages were just as bad as the templars. 

Well, Leliana's ending shows it to be not so unreasonable after all.

[KyndredRaven]

I support this character. He was well-written and just what I would want a true Templar to be. His handsomeness is in no way considered when I give this opinion, either... >_>

[Ceoldoren]

Thrask did not leave the order, he tried to overthrow Meredith and return them to their original path to promote harmony between mages and templars. Cullen's the one who turned a blind eye to Meredith's corruption. Evangeline was run off when she stood up for the mages against a tyrannical Lambert. They've sacrificed and though I give Barris his due, people focus on his accolades as if he is more of a templar than others when the other two have proven themselves as well.

Thrask sided with a bunch of blood mages and kidnapped someone close to Hawke. Evangeline only sided with the mages because of her love for Rhys. There not exactly great people.

 

That's not to say Barris didn't make mistakes. He followed the Lord Commander longer than he should have. But instead of turning on the order when they tried to kill him he fought to weed out the corruption. And then worked to redeem his order later. 

[Xilizhra]

Thrask sided with a bunch of blood mages and kidnapped someone close to Hawke. Evangeline only sided with the mages because of her love for Rhys. There not exactly great people.

 

That's not to say Barris didn't make mistakes. He followed the Lord Commander longer than he should have. But instead of turning on the order when they tried to kill him he fought to weed out the corruption. And then worked to redeem his order later. 

And therein lies his failure. The Order was well beyond salvation even before Corypheus. It had to be purged.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Thrask sided with a bunch of blood mages and kidnapped someone close to Hawke. Evangeline only sided with the mages because of her love for Rhys. There not exactly great people.

 

That's not to say Barris didn't make mistakes. He followed the Lord Commander longer than he should have. But instead of turning on the order when they tried to kill him he fought to weed out the corruption. And then worked to redeem his order later. 

I thought we were on the same page on what a model templar was. I guess even that is up for dispute.

[Mr.House]

And therein lies his failure. The Order was well beyond salvation even before Corypheus. It had to be purged.

Funny, the Templar order was reformed in my gameworld, or is this just your personal bias tryign to play facts again?

[Boost32]

Someones knows who is Barris' writer?

[Ceoldoren]

Funny, the Templar order was reformed in my gameworld, or is this just your personal bias tryign to play facts again?

Indeed, the order is doing better than it ever has under Barris. He's completely turned them around. 

[Ceoldoren]

I thought we were on the same page on what a model templar was. I guess even that is up for dispute.

Well, what do you consider a model templar ? 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Funny, the Templar order was reformed in my gameworld, or is this just your personal bias tryign to play facts again?

Funny, the mages are independent and accepted throughout Thedas in my gameworld and no Tevinter 2.0 has sprouted. Guess the Templars aren't as necessary as you people claim or is this just your personal bias trying to play facts again.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't want a flawless character, I want a righteous/white knight archetype character, I said that in the exact same post you just quoted. And no, your examples don't fit. Is it hard for you to understand what people mean when they say "I want a knightly gay character"? No? I want a knightly bi character. See? Same thing.

 

Enough with this, in any case. I know you like to be confrontational about everything, but this is not the appropriate thread for this subject.

I know what they and you mean. But most white knight characters are such because of something dark in their past. A common example is they couldn't save someone dear to them and so dedicated their life to making themselves able to protect people so nobody has to suffer that. That is a prime example of a white knight and yet it wouldn't fit your criteria. I don't mean to sound argumentative, just confused. 

[Mr.House]

Funny, the mages are independent and accepted throughout Thedas in my gameworld and no Tevinter 2.0 has sprouted. Guess the Templars aren't as necessary as you people claim or is this just your personal bias trying to play facts again.

"you people" What?

[Sports72Xtrm]

Well, what do you consider a model templar ? 

A person who stands by his convictions to protect mages and mundanes a like and isn't neutrotic as to stand in the way of mage freedom. Someone who cares more about compassion and helping a person have a better life instead of bragging about killing an apostate and acting like a hero for killing the maleficar and protecting humanity. Now I know Barris isn't the latter but I get the impression that's what people in the BSN believe being a templar is all about. The idea of embodying the "protector" instead of actually being a protector. The envy to be "righteous".

[Catche Jagger]

And therein lies his failure. The Order was well beyond salvation even before Corypheus. It had to be purged.

This is an absurd statement, seeing as in the epilogue (which you used earlier in this thread to support the idea of free mages) can see the Templar order reformed.

The epilogue on your Mage/Templar choice is obviously meant to show that whatever you chose, you made the "right" choice.

[AresKeith]

A person who stands by his convictions to protect mages and mundanes a like and isn't neutrotic as to stand in the way of mage freedom. Someone who cares more about compassion and helping a person have a better life instead of bragging about killing an apostate and acting like a hero for killing the maleficar and protecting humanity. Now I know Barris isn't the latter but I get the impression that's what people in the BSN believe being a templar is all about.

 

Then you've been looking at the wrong BSN people

[HuldraDancer]

Hasn't really gone that route yet but could we please keep this away from the Mage Vs Templar thing? Both sides have good and bad points and I'm sure there are many threads to talk about it but this isn't one of them. Please? Like I've mentioned before I personally am on middle ground with the situation so I'd really hate to see this become a heated Mage vs Templar debate

 

Random Ser Barris Picture again.

[thesuperdarkone2]

This is an absurd statement, seeing as in the epilogue (which you used earlier in this thread to support the idea of free mages) can see the Templar order reformed.

Reformed but how can you be certain they won't fall into the same corruption that befell the templars earlier? Psychology has already shown that when people are given undeserved power over others, corruption is inevitable.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Then you've been looking at the wrong BSN people

The posts speak for themselves. Evangeline and Thrask were good templars. The fact they couldn't tell the difference speaks more then words.