1162 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost32]

I've seen those too, having looked them up while doing research. My answer hasn't changed.

Very well, you have the right to have your opinions, but remember this thread is about Barris and not about the mages vc templars.

[Xilizhra]

Very well, you have the right to have your opinions, but remember this thread is about Barris and not about the mages vc templars.

And I've mostly said that Barris should have joined us of his own accord earlier.

[TK514]

The Inquisition pays for collateral damage/loans workers for repairs.

 

t is unlikely he would ever offer a Mage or Mages succor again, nor would he support them in time of need.  The fact that he sends the Inquisition a bill is indicative of his new feeling towards the mages, and he is anything but 'smoothed over'.

[Xilizhra]

t is unlikely he would ever offer a Mage or Mages succor again, nor would he support them in time of need.  The fact that he sends the Inquisition a bill is indicative of his new feeling towards the mages, and he is anything but 'smoothed over'.

He's fine. He actually apologizes for being short with you afterward and invites the Inquisition to a tournament in which the winner gets a bannorn.

[Iakus]

Any hope of those ideals lasting died when the Order left the Chantry. I can't see it as admirable when he continues to follow an organization that openly plummeted into evil.

 

Not really.  In fact, Corypheus and the Envy demon may have inadvertantly done the Templars a favor.

 

In striking at the highest ranking/most senior Templars first in the hope of decapitating their leadership, they also took out those most responsible for permitting and even institutionalizing the abuses the Templars committed on the mages.  Now with someone like Ser Barris, a genuinely good and idealistic person in charge, the way is paved for the Templars to return to their roots and become what they were meant to be: a force to protect mages as much as to protect people from mages. 

 

Whether such reforms outlive Ser Barris is of course an open question.  But an alliance with the Inquisition is sure a good place to start.

[Xilizhra]

Not really.  In fact, Corypheus and the Envy demon may have inadvertantly done the Templars a favor.

 

In striking at the highest ranking/most senior Templars first in the hope of decapitating their leadership, they also took out those most responsible for permitting and even institutionalizing the abuses the Templars committed on the mages.  Now with someone like Ser Barris, a genuinely good and idealistic person in charge, the way is paved for the Templars to return to their roots and become what they were meant to be: a force to protect mages as much as to protect people from mages. 

 

Whether such reforms outlive Ser Barris is of course an open question.  But an alliance with the Inquisition is sure a good place to start.

The institution is too tainted. It's like trying to preserve certain governmental structures I could but won't name with just a regime change. By destroying the Order, Corypheus and the envy demon did all Thedas a favor; I believe we should uphold it with Leliana as Divine.

[Catche Jagger]

And I've mostly said that Barris should have joined us of his own accord earlier.

Though your statements have often given the impression that you feel Barris deserved to DIE for not joining sooner.

Also you referred to the Templar Order is evil, which is rather absolutist especially given that a great deal of the idea behind being pro-mage would be to avoid absolutist thinking like "Mages are dangerous."

The Templars Order is just an organization. People created it, and people dictate what purpose what actions it will take it doesn't have some evil will all it's own. The corrupt leadership has been cleared out making space for a new set of leaders, heavily influenced by the Inquisition.

[Xilizhra]

Though your statements have often given the impression that you feel Barris deserved to DIE for not joining sooner.

Also you referred to the Templar Order is evil, which is rather absolutist especially given that a great deal of the idea behind being pro-mage would be to avoid absolutist thinking like "Mages are dangerous."

The Templars Order is just an organization. People created it, and people dictate what purpose what actions it will take it doesn't have some evil will all it's own. The corrupt leadership has been cleared out making space for a new set of leaders, heavily influenced by the Inquisition.

It's not that he deserved to die, it's just that I'm not all that upset about it. Also, being a mage is simply a biological condition, whereas the Templar Order is an organization with its own philosophy.

[Catche Jagger]

Double post

[Catche Jagger]

It's not that he deserved to die, it's just that I'm not all that upset about it. Also, being a mage is simply a biological condition, whereas the Templar Order is an organization with its own philosophy.

Yeah, I didn't think you really thought he deserved it, I simply wanted to make clear why someone might have a knee jerk reaction. Thank you for making things clear.
-----

Now, I understand that Mages are simply born different from others, but that didn't directly lead to the challenges they face. The absolutism of how mages were all dangerous led to them being feared by the common people. Much of the hatred and abuse they face is due to the absolute way in which people view them.

The Templar Order is not inherently evil. Corrupt leadership and prejudice led to the the downfall of something that was good (at least in principle) into something harmful. There is a chance for things to be done right this time with new leadership and the guidance of the Inquisition.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Yeah, I didn't think you really thought he deserved it, I simply wanted to make clear why someone might have a knee jerk reaction. Thank you for making things clear.
-----

Now, I understand that Mages are simply born different from others, but that didn't directly lead to the challenges they face. The absolutism of how mages were all dangerous led to them being feared by the common people. Much of the hatred and abuse they face is due to the absolute way in which people view them.

The Templar Order is not inherently evil. Corrupt leadership and prejudice led to the the downfall of something that was good (at least in principle) into something harmful. There is a chance for things to be done right this time with new leadership and the guidance of the Inquisition.

The Templar who complains to Cass about mages and the Silver Shield ending kind of implies that the Templars are still a bunch of mage-hating bigots. Plus, Cole's banter outright says that the good Templars are intimidated by the bad templars and they are a minority. The Templar that killed Cole and what happens to Barris in Val Royeaux are pretty much examples of good Templars being forced into submission by bad ones. 

 

Also, Barris is a Knight-Commander, leader of a group of Templars, not Knight-Vigilant. How is Barris being Knight-Commander going to prevent another Meredith or Lambert from appearing in some other nation?

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

The Templar who complains to Cass about mages and the Silver Shield ending kind of implies that the Templars are still a bunch of mage-hating bigots. Plus, Cole's banter outright says that the good Templars are intimidated by the bad templars and they are a minority. The Templar that killed Cole and what happens to Barris in Val Royeaux are pretty much examples of good Templars being forced into submission by bad ones.

Also, Barris is a Knight-Commander, leader of a group of Templars, not Knight-Vigilant. How is Barris being Knight-Commander going to prevent another Meredith or Lambert from appearing in some other nation?

. What's the Silver Shield ending?

[thesuperdarkone2]

. What's the Silver Shield ending?

It's an ending you get if you ally with the Templars, tell Cullen to not take lyrium, have Vivienne as Divine, and disband the Seekers. In that ending, the Templars refuse to serve Vivienne simply because she's a mage and decide to form their own magic hunting organization called the Silver Shield. It pretty much shows that the Templars, once they don't have a leash, are mage-hating bigots and how people like Barris are the minority. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the Templars who joined the Seekers if they are rebuilt do it so they don't have to serve a mage.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

It's an ending you get if you ally with the Templars, tell Cullen to not take lyrium, have Vivienne as Divine, and disband the Seekers. In that ending, the Templars refuse to serve Vivienne simply because she's a mage and decide to form their own magic hunting organization called the Silver Shield. It pretty much shows that the Templars, once they don't have a leash, are mage-hating bigots and how people like Barris are the minority. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the Templars who joined the Seekers if they are rebuilt do it so they don't have to serve a mage.

. Wow, they actually refuse to serve someone simply for being a Mage? Didn't hunk they were that bad.

Also, why aren't Templars like Thrask or Evangeline as popular a Barris? I didn't even know he could survive until reading the forums

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Very well, you have the right to have your opinions, but remember this thread is about Barris and not about the mages vc templars.

When you say things like "Barris is better than that dead Fiona", you have no one to blame but yourself for starting a mt debate

[Lady Elsa]

From what I understand whether or not Cullen stops taking lyrium is important in those endings:

 

If you ally with the Templars, tell Cullen to not take lyrium, have Cas as Divine, and disband the Seekers - They rejoin the Templar Order under the new Divine – on the condition that her leash will not be reattached.

 

 

If you ally with the Templars, Cullen goes back on lyrium, with either Cas or Viv are divine, and disband the Seekers - In the end, many return to the Templar Order when it is reformed by the Divine.

 

I may be wrong but I assumed that the lyrium is also an issue here. Serving a mage divine may go against their faith but I can see Viv refusing to comply with the 'no lyrium leash' the way Cas would. She wants to be the one in control of everything, which would include leashing the templars.

 

Personally I don't like the idea of an independent Templar order because of lack of accountability but nothing in the epilogues indicates they become 'evil mage hunters' in this case either.  The endings seem to be left intentionally vague...

[Boost32]

When you say things like "Barris is better than that dead Fiona", you have no one to blame but yourself for starting a mt debate

Never said anything about dead Fiona, all I said was he would never submit to Corypheus unlikely a certain mage leader

. Wow, they actually refuse to serve someone simply for being a Mage? Didn't hunk they were that bad.
Also, why aren't Templars like Thrask or Evangeline as popular a Barris? I didn't even know he could survive until reading the forums

What is the problem of them not wanting to serve a mage? The mages didnt wanted to go back to the Circles with Vivienne as Divine too.

Evangeline is a traitor, Thrask was a fool, he couldnt tell grace was a blood mage and he kidnapped your sibling/lover.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Never said anything about dead Fiona, all I said was he would never submit to Corypheus unlikely a certain mage leader

What is the problem of them not wanting to serve a mage? The mages didnt wanted to go back to the Circles with Vivienne as Divine too.

Evangeline is a traitor, Thrask was a fool, he couldnt tell grace was a blood mage and he kidnapped your sibling/lover.

. You say Vivienne is he best and she supports circles yet her being a Mage automatically means she is bad? I wouldn't like it if the Templats refused to help the inquisitor if hey were a Mage.

[Steelcan]

The institution is too tainted. It's like trying to preserve certain governmental structures I could but won't name with just a regime change. By destroying the Order, Corypheus and the envy demon did all Thedas a favor; I believe we should uphold it with Leliana as Divine.

wow that's a load of horsesh*t

[Steelcan]

The Templar who complains to Cass about mages and the Silver Shield ending kind of implies that the Templars are still a bunch of mage-hating bigots. Plus, Cole's banter outright says that the good Templars are intimidated by the bad templars and they are a minority. The Templar that killed Cole and what happens to Barris in Val Royeaux are pretty much examples of good Templars being forced into submission by bad ones. 

 

Also, Barris is a Knight-Commander, leader of a group of Templars, not Knight-Vigilant. How is Barris being Knight-Commander going to prevent another Meredith or Lambert from appearing in some other nation?

the mages who b*tch about their quarters are proof mages are still entitled whelps, and their ending where Fiona's crowd drags them back into into war is proof they are all still unconcerned with anyhting besides their own problems and should be thrown back into Circles forcefully.

 

Well since there is no Knight-Divine at the time of his appointment, its not entirely implausible he takes the position later

[Boost32]

. You say Vivienne is he best and she supports circles yet her being a Mage automatically means she is bad? I wouldn't like it if the Templats refused to help the inquisitor if hey were a Mage.

No its not, but I dont see the problem of them not wanting to follow Vivienne, its their choice.
If they start doing bad things I will see this as a problem.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

wow that's a load of horsesh*t

. What's so bad? The Templars haven't exactly inspired confidence so far so I think he has a legitimate opinion?

[AresKeith]

wow that's a load of horsesh*t

 

Except anything less?

[Boost32]

. What's so bad? The Templars haven't exactly inspired confidence so far so I think he has a legitimate opinion?

Xilzhira is a woman.

[TheTurtle]

wow that's a load of horsesh*t

What else is new?