1162 réponses à ce sujet

[NaclynE]

Yet the question for me is since Barris got killed in one of my current playthroughs is would the current templar repalcement fair better than Barris in terms of leading the templars?

[Catche Jagger]

The order was twisted, evil, and beyond fixing. Probably beyond fixing for hundreds of years, but the separation from the Chantry was the final seal of its fate. Sometimes, the most courageous thing is accepting when you know you have to jump ship.

 

 

Wow... That's a rather absolutist mindset to have. I have no true issue with you choosing the mages, but outright evil? Seriously? I assumed that, if there was any underlying theme in this whole mage/templar conflict, it's that thinking in absolutes when presented with a complex situation brings about terrible conflict.

 

He turned a blind eye to Lucius's atrocities for months, following bad order after bad order and knowing full well that what he was doing was illegal in the eyes of the chantry. How is that showing courage (especially compared to templars like Evangeline)?

What atrocities? Unless you're referring to him remaining a templar at all, you're making no sense. He appears to have no knowledge of what Lucius is doing involving Corypheus.

 

Once again, him remaining a member of the Order is an issue of loyalty/sense of duty. He is a member of a military order and just leaving isn't something that is done lightly. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Oh, and as to the topic itself (Ser Barris)...

 

 

[Xilizhra]

Wow... That's a rather absolutist mindset to have. I have no true issue with you choosing the mages, but outright evil? Seriously? I assumed that, if there was any underlying theme in this whole mage/templar conflict, it's that thinking in absolutes when presented with a complex situation brings about terrible conflict.

It's like the light and dark side of the Force. Just like how the dark side is imbalance, and its destruction is what brings balance to the Force, the templars are the absolutist spoiler preventing the question from being answered properly.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Once again, him remaining a member of the Order is an issue of loyalty/sense of duty. He is a member of a military order and just leaving isn't something that is done lightly. 

 

I'm not sure that it's even that. Barris was the one who was feeding information to Cullen after all and he did seem to have his reservations about the direction that the Order was taking. 

 

To me I thought that the reason Barris didn't leave immediately had as much to deal with him wanting to discover what the Lucius was planning as it did his sense of loyalty to the Order. 

[AresKeith]

It's like the light and dark side of the Force. Just like how the dark side is imbalance, and its destruction is what brings balance to the Force, the templars are the absolutist spoiler preventing the question from being answered properly.

 

Bad comparison is bad

[Catche Jagger]

It's like the light and dark side of the Force. Just like how the dark side is imbalance, and its destruction is what brings balance to the Force, the templars are the absolutist spoiler preventing the question from being answered properly.

I take issue with your application of black and white morality into the world of Thedas which does not operate under such principles, but beyond that, your answer to absolutism is to attack it with absolutism? Under your own Star Wars comparison that does not work. When you fight the dark side with the dark side, you become corrupted by the very thing you are fighting.

[Xilizhra]

I take issue with your application of black and white morality into the world of Thedas which does not operate under such principles, but beyond that, your answer to absolutism is to attack it with absolutism? Under your own Star Wars comparison that does not work. When you fight the dark side with the dark side, you become corrupted by the very thing you are fighting.

You never fight it with absolutism in-game, just with the desire to keep a bunch of innocent mages from being slaughtered.

[Catche Jagger]

You never fight it with absolutism in-game, just with the desire to keep a bunch of innocent mages from being slaughtered.

I literally said I had no true issue with choosing to side with the mages. My argument was against you referring to the Templar Order as "evil." You used an absolute term to describe a position in a complicated issue.

And if you would so desire to comtinue on this Star Wars train of thought, what makes an action be attributed to the dark side involves the emotions and intentions involved rather than the raw action.

[Xilizhra]

I literally said I had no true issue with choosing to side with the mages. My argument was against you referring to the Templar Order as "evil." You used an absolute term to describe a position in a complicated issue.

And if you would so desire to comtinue on this Star Wars train of thought, what makes an action be attributed to the dark side involves the emotions and intentions involved rather than the raw action.

I think that the actions and beliefs that one must commit to to be a loyal member of the Templar Order are enough to prevent one from being a good person. One can become good in some cases if one leaves the Order, but not before.

[Catche Jagger]

I think that the actions and beliefs that one must commit to to be a loyal member of the Templar Order are enough to prevent one from being a good person. One can become good in some cases if one leaves the Order, but not before.

And what, to you, would qualify someone as a good person? What about Templars makes them explicitly not good? Is there not a difference between not being an out-and-out good person and being outright evil?

[Xilizhra]

And what, to you, would qualify someone as a good person? What about Templars makes them explicitly not good? Is there not a difference between not being an out-and-out good person and being outright evil?

Well, one thing it would necessitate is not aiding and abetting a system to unjustly imprison people within a magophobic religious institution's iron grip. And the organization's goals, methods, and the things it tolerates are what makes it evil; how evil the individual is depends on how much they do to advance those..

[Steelcan]

I think that the actions and beliefs that one must commit to to be a loyal member of the Templar Order are enough to prevent one from being a good person. One can become good in some cases if one leaves the Order, but not before.

yes, how dare people strive to protect people, including mages, from the dangers of magic and demons

 

those monsters

[Xilizhra]

yes, how dare people strive to protect people, including mages, from the dangers of magic and demons

 

those monsters

Watch the Inquisition do all that without imprisoning them!

[KaiserShep]

Watch the Inquisition do all that without imprisoning them!

 

The Inquisition's relationship with them is a bit different. Once the conflict is resolved, the mages either go off to establish their own thing or they get pulled back into the Chantry's cages.

[Xilizhra]

The Inquisition's relationship with them is a bit different. Once the conflict is resolved, the mages either go off to establish their own thing or they get pulled back into the Chantry's cages.

And that's why the Inquisition is much better.

[KaiserShep]

And that's why the Inquisition is much better.

 

Better or no, the Inquisition is not necessarily a permanent institution either, since its only reason for existing is to serve as a response to an emergency. Of course, the irony is that no matter what, the Inquisition employs Templars. I rather enjoy using Cullen's option to deal with the Tevinter resistance. I wish I could see the look on those Vints' faces when real anti-magic soldiers make the scene.

[Steelcan]

Watch the Inquisition do all that without imprisoning them!

we both know the Inquisition cannot permanently function as their protectors

[Xilizhra]

Better or no, the Inquisition is not necessarily a permanent institution either, since its only reason for existing is to serve as a response to an emergency. Of course, the irony is that no matter what, the Inquisition employs Templars. I rather enjoy using Cullen's option to deal with the Tevinter resistance. I wish I could see the look on those Vints' faces when real anti-magic soldiers make the scene.

Not templars in their previous role, which makes everything different. In any case, there's plenty of dialogue saying that the PC intends to see the Inquisition endure.

[Steelcan]

Not templars in their previous role, which makes everything different. In any case, there's plenty of dialogue saying that the PC intends to see the Inquisition endure.

And that means exactly nothing until we see it lasting

[Xilizhra]

And that means exactly nothing until we see it lasting

Well, there's absolutely no sign that the Inquisition is fading.

[Steelcan]

Well, there's absolutely no sign that the Inquisition is fading.

and there's no guarantee they stick around either

[KaiserShep]

Well, there's absolutely no sign that the Inquisition is fading.

 

The Inquisition may stick around for many years onward, but it's very likely that the Inquisitor will not have a successor, and the organization will be dissolved once its current leader retires from the position or dies.

[Xilizhra]

and there's no guarantee they stick around either

There's also no guarantee that Orlais won't be taken over by Martians.

 

 

The Inquisition may stick around for many years onward, but it's very likely that the Inquisitor will not have a successor, and the organization will be dissolved once its current leader retires from the position or dies.

Why would the game mandate that my Inquisitor is too dumb to designate a successor?

[KaiserShep]

Why would the game mandate that my Inquisitor is too dumb to designate a successor?

 

This assumes that the Inquisition will always be necessary. Even a decade's time after Corypheus' defeat could find the Inquisition having little place in the Thedas it saved.