238 réponses à ce sujet

[Ranadiel Marius]

One thing I liked about making Cole "human" is his post final battle dialogue (might require bringing him with you, not sure). He talks about how the big bad was constantly trying to bind Cole and that binding works by the binder metaphorically yelling what he wants you to be until it is all you can think, but it didn't work on Cole because he knew exactly who he was. (Bad paraphrase.)

[BroBear Berbil]

Cole seemed really happy remaining a spirit once he loses his baggage and finds his purpose again. Plus, his tarot card thing in party selection as a spirit is awesome - my favorite one.

 

I don't think him becoming more human is necessarily a good thing. He's a spirit, and a wonderful one. Too bad about his armor though.

[Gill Kaiser]

Cole seemed really happy remaining a spirit once he loses his baggage and finds his purpose again. Plus, his tarot card thing in party selection as a spirit is awesome - my favorite one.

 

I don't think him becoming more human is necessarily a good thing. He's a spirit, and a wonderful one. Too bad about his armor though.

 

He tarot card for human isn't much different, but I prefer it. Instead of his whole body being white, it's just his head and hair.

[Ennai and 54 others]

Making Cole human like is like dressing your pet.It just looks sad.

 

 

This whole situation reminds me of what legion said during his personal quest,he expressed disapproval at the idea of applying human values and morality to things that are anything but.

 

Assuming that humanity is intrinsically good or trying to change the nature of unique things so that they fit in our little box is just not right.

 

We gain more by observing the world as it is,expanding our minds to fit it,instead of ignorantly altering it to be something less uncomfortable.

 

I'm reminded of an image of a baby struggling with a shape sorter toy.Instead of understanding the world as it is(putting the shapes in their correct holes),they want to warp the world to fit their limited understanding(squeezing the cube into the circular hole).

 

They learn nothing if they succeed.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Making Cole human like is like dressing your pet.It just looks sad.


This whole situation reminds me of what legion said during his personal quest,he expressed disapproval at the idea of applying human values and morality to things that are anything but.

Assuming that humanity is intrinsically good or trying to change the nature of unique things so that they fit in our little box is just not right.

We gain more by observing the world as it is,expanding our minds to fit it,instead of ignorantly shaping it to what makes us comfortable.

I'm reminded of an image of a baby struggling with a shape sorter toy.Instead of understanding the world as it is(putting the shapes in their correct holes),they want to warp the world to fit their limited understanding(squeezing the cube into the circular hole),and they learn nothing if they succeed.

The only thing that is unique about him is that he is a spirit that has gained somewhat a bit of humanity. By taking that away from him you are turning him into just another compassion spirit. Why is denying him a unique path forward that, to our knowledge has never been tried before, intrinsically worse than removing everything that makes him unique from him. By making him more human you are creating something new which expands our understanding of the world and its possibilities.

[Gill Kaiser]

Making Cole human like is like dressing your pet.It just looks sad.

 

 

This whole situation reminds me of what legion said during his personal quest,he expressed disapproval at the idea of applying human values and morality to things that are anything but.

 

Assuming that humanity is intrinsically good or trying to change the nature of unique things so that they fit in our little box is just not right.

 

We gain more by observing the world as it is,expanding our minds to fit it,instead of ignorantly altering it to be something less uncomfortable.

 

I'm reminded of an image of a baby struggling with a shape sorter toy.Instead of understanding the world as it is(putting the shapes in their correct holes),they want to warp the world to fit their limited understanding(squeezing the cube into the circular hole).

 

They learn nothing if they succeed.

 

Except unlike Legion and the Geth, who had no desire to be influenced by the other races and wanted to find their own path, Cole has no opinion on the matter. He was in one state of being, and now he's in another. That's all he knows.

[Meraxes]

I prefer spirit Cole.

 

That's what he is, and there's nothing wrong with it. I felt like making him more 'human' would end up shackling him somehow.

[CronoDragoon]

I chose Spirit Cole. Having him not only forgive the Templar that killed (through neglect) the real Cole but also help him was one of the best moments of the game. It's clear that the entire situation had destroyed that Templar's life. What are Spirits of Compassion if they selectively decide who to help and who not to help? Cole's motto was that the helping was all that mattered, separated from any sense of ego or reward. Mending the Templar represented that.

 

This game has radically changed my views of Spirits and the Fade, as was intended I'm sure. I mostly have Solas's views to thank for that, especially his personal quest.

[movieguyabw]

Yeah, I felt like Cole becoming more human-like was very emotional.  Not that being human is intrinsically "good", or that making him a spirit is somehow "wrong".  It's just Cole was already on the path to becoming human.  He was a spirit who took on a human's identity - in an attempt to fulfill the boy's dying wish of living as a non-mage.

 

The question is whether or not you feel that someone can/should change what they are.  And it's also a question of how close to humanity Cole already is.  I think both outcomes are rather good - but the human ending I find is the more moving of the two, personally.

 

This game has radically changed my views of Spirits and the Fade, as was intended I'm sure. I mostly have Solas's views to thank for that, especially his personal quest.

 

I'm actually so glad that they went this route with the whole mythology behind Spirits/Demons.  I always sort of looked at it similar to Solas - in that demons and spirits should be treated just like people are - and I remember a time where a lot of fans would read my comments on the matter and act if I was some sort of alien for suggesting such things.  XD   Oh, sweet validation.  lol

[Ekliane]

Why is being human automatically a good thing all of a sudden?

 

'Cos I'm a sucker for Pinocchio.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

'Cos I'm a sucker for Pinocchio.

 

 

There are...no strings...on me...

[Gill Kaiser]

A neutered dog in a turtleneck or a defanged cobra in a pink sock is something new that expands our understanding of the world and it's possibilities.But we gain no knowledge other than what we already knew,that we can warp the world into something familiar and comfortable.Unless we take the time to truly understand it we risk making it less than what it could have been had we not interfered.

If the baby forces the cube into the circular hole he only learns that he can force the cube into the circular hole,he does not demonstrate understanding of the relationship between shapes and the holes.

I'm reminded of a story about a tomb robber that found an ancient artifact that was mostly undamaged.Up until then he had only been finding broken pieces that he sold to tourists.This was his limited understanding of the world.Naturally he smashed the item and sold the individual shards to passers by for coins.Intact, the artifact would have been worth thousands.

He was happy with himself over all,he had changed the artifact into something he was more comfortable interacting with.Altering it was sensible from his limited perspective,but so much had been lost.

 

By returning Cole to his previous state, you're effectively making him that tomb robber.

[Ennai and 54 others]

By returning Cole to his previous state, you're effectively making him that tomb robber.

Cole is the artifact.We are the tomb robber,warping something that is more than we know,diminishing it in our attempt to make it fit in our tiny tiny world.

[Gill Kaiser]

Cole is the artifact.We are the tomb robber,warping something that is more than we know,diminishing it in our attempt to make it fit in our tiny tiny world.

 

From one point of view. The other point of view is that Cole started on this path himself, and it's something he's been grasping towards this whole time. It's not like you're ACTUALLY making him human, you're just making him more complex and giving him more comprehension of the material world, emotions and such.

 

All Cole wants to do is help. As a Spirit he can help more directly, but his helping is fleeting and it can't truly get to the core of people's problems, because he lacks the ability to understand them in any kind of detail. While he thinks he's happy, it's the blissful happiness of the uncomprehending.

[BubbleDncr]

I made Cole more of a spirit, because that's what Solas wanted.

[llandwynwyn]

Watching the human version convinced me to never do that to him.  That's the Cole that annoyed me in Asunder.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Cole is the artifact.We are the tomb robber,warping something that is more than we know,diminishing it in our attempt to make it fit in our tiny tiny world.

No you are making him fit within your tiny world view which says that spirits and humans are different and there can be no overlap instead of letting him explore the possibility that they are not mutually exclusive. Just because your world view is "nature-centric" instead of "human-centric" doesn't mean it is any less limited. What if becoming human is a natural occurance for spirits that you are unaware of because it is rare. You are forcing your world view on him just as much as anyone else.

[Kinsz]

Cole is a better version of himself as a hybrid human/Spirit , as he still has the abiity to help people but he understands the people he is helping much more now.

[Ennai and 54 others]

No you are making him fit within your tiny world view which says that spirits and humans are different and there can be no overlap instead of letting him explore the possibility that they are not mutually exclusive. Just because your world view is "nature-centric" instead of "human-centric" doesn't mean it is any less limited. What if becoming human is a natural occurance for spirits that you are unaware of because it is rare. You are forcing your world view on him just as much as anyone else.

Perhaps.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Why is being human automatically a good thing all of a sudden?

 

No one said anything about it being 'automatically a good thing'. His human path simply has pretty cool advantages, so does his spirit path. 

Regarding the topic, I made him human. He needed this change, he needed to feel, to learn, to be a person. He's my favorite companion in the series so far, I've never admired a character so much before. 

[Eelectrica]

I went with spirit.

Next playthrough I'll go with human.

[Patchwork]

I don't think either path is a bad both have their positives and negatives, which one I choose will depend on the Inquisitor I'm running.

[Tootles FTW]

I think Cole is perhaps the advent of something new - a link between Spirit & human, and I think giving him the chance to explore that unique state of being is the best option.  Also, when I turned him towards the Spirit path in my first playthrough I got a very disturbing cutscene later in the game where he made himself forget Cole and robotically states "you may continue to refer to me as Cole if you'd like" in this monotone voice...I don't know if this was because my approval was low with him, but it made me really sad.

[Gill Kaiser]

I think Cole is perhaps the advent of something new - a link between Spirit & human, and I think giving him the chance to explore that unique state of being is the best option.  Also, when I turned him towards the Spirit path in my first playthrough I got a very disturbing cutscene later in the game where he made himself forget Cole and robotically states "you may continue to refer to me as Cole if you'd like" in this monotone voice...I don't know if this was because my approval was low with him, but it made me really sad.

 

I think he made himself forget Rhys, too. Or, at least, stopped caring so much about him, and those memories evaporated.

[Tootles FTW]

I think he made himself forget Rhys, too. Or, at least, stopped caring so much about him, and those memories evaporated.

 

He seems to default back to normal Cole after this scene, bizarrely, so I don't know if in-game it's acknowledged that he's changed in any drastic way (AKA he's basically an amnesiac outside of Inquisition events), but that scene alone struck me as so completely sad that I vowed never to turn him towards the Spirit path again.

 

The real Cole deserves not to be forgotten, it was the entire basis for spirit!Cole becoming what he became.