238 réponses à ce sujet

[Korva]

I heard that Cole refuses to come along for the battle against Corypheus if you don't do his quest ... a sensible decision.

[Pasta]

Well, considering that the previous human Cole was a mage, the only way to ever achieve what he wanted that is [ living as a normal human without magic ] would be getting rid of the magic he was born with and I don't think that's possible. Human Cole isn't truly fully the previous mage!Cole as he still carries out his duty as Compassion and this one line he said after humanized : [ as long as I still remember some of the Fade, it stays ] (sth like that)

 

I do agree that the Compassion IS Compassion himself, and the real Cole is deceased, but if Compassion left the Fade to help the real Cole, then his wish of [ living as a normal human without magic ] would be what Compassion could grant him--as the next best thing... but sadly by losing some of the Compassion himself. 

 

Spirit Cole could go back to the Fade, but thinking long term... he left the Fade as the suffering of the late Cole was very strong, so there might be a chance he could do it again. If he never stops on helping people, I'm cautiously assuming that if he goes back to the Fade, he still helps the beings in the Fade. Problem is.. if he's helping some other types of spirits like Command or perhaps Ambition, or even Justice, there might be a chance of the way he's helping might change what those spirits essentially are. EG; Especially if Ambition's objective is impossible, and Compassion told him to let go. 

 

From worldly perspective... we need more Coles in the physical world as it is always in disorder. He might not be able to change it, but at least he can reduce the suffering of the people. The Fade could shift and possibly follow the preference of whoever is inside (like the Nightmare) and I think... if the memories of the dead people are in the Fade (like the fears which boosts stats in the Nightmare) can be changed to a better one, that is of course to lessen their pain when they were still living.

 

To safely stay in the physical world might be by humanizing him, and you see, the Fear demon feeds to the terror the living experienced. Human Cole can possibly kill that b*tch by starvation (sweet revenge...) if he stayed to make the people's lives better and comfort them [ I'm not like him, I ease their pain, he eats them ] thus making the Fear demon starve. If only we can have 10000 Coles in the physical world....  I'd keep them all in my room

[JoltDealer]

I went with human the first time, but once I did a second playthrough, I went with making him more of a spirit.  As a human, he feels free and unable to help others in the same way he did before.  As as spirit, he is free of pain and is capable of helping so much more.  I think the latter is more beneficial to both him and the world around him.

[Shahadem]

I wanted to choose to kill him. There was simply something about him that I didn't trust.

[TheJediSaint]

Human Cole, because the feels.

[Korva]

Spirit Cole could go back to the Fade, but thinking long term... he left the Fade as the suffering of the late Cole was very strong, so there might be a chance he could do it again. If he never stops on helping people, I'm cautiously assuming that if he goes back to the Fade, he still helps the beings in the Fade.

 

It seems some spirits can also influence people in the real world from the Fade, to a degree? See Solas' story about the matchmaking spirit who watched over a village (and might have been another variant of compassion-spirit).

 

Problem is.. if he's helping some other types of spirits like Command or perhaps Ambition, or even Justice, there might be a chance of the way he's helping might change what those spirits essentially are. EG; Especially if Ambition's objective is impossible, and Compassion told him to let go.

 

Pondering how spirits of different principles/natures/virtues interact with each other is interesting. Purely in the Fade, a spirit probably doesn't encounter much resistance since it can shape its surroundings. Involve the static mortal world where that doesn't work and there's more potential for problems. If another spirit has an impossible goal and gets distressed over it, Compassion's attempt to soothe the distress might cause conflict -- but being left alone with an insurmountable problem could also cause the other spirit to become twisted away from its nature, like "our" Cole was twisted by his grief over not being able to prevent the "real" Cole's death. Hopefully, Compassion's insight into the nature of things could show it some way to help, even in a roundabout way like the "odd things" Cole does in Skyhold.

 

From worldly perspective... we need more Coles in the physical world as it is always in disorder. He might not be able to change it, but at least he can reduce the suffering of the people.

 

He can definitely do a lot of good here, in many ways, regardless of whether he becomes more spirit-like or more human-like. Helping people makes their lives better and gives demons less to "feed" on as a result. I like the idea of "starving" demons, as you said. People who, with Cole's help, find new strength and hope and faith to do great things could also potentially attract the attention of other benign spirits ... or even "create" a new benign spirit, if their emotions are exceptionally strong? Finally, if people know that a spirit is among them and helping them, they might lose some of their ignorance and fear about spirits. Cole is like an "emissary" of the Fade, in a way, and Cassandra is one example of a person who starts to consider entirely new angles and ideas due to interacting with him (and with Solas).

 

My Inquisitor is also heavily influenced by her friendship with Cole, so my headcanon is her actively trying to pass on some of the lessons she learned from and through him and Solas to the rest of her Inquisition.

[Pasta]

It seems some spirits can also influence people in the real world from the Fade, to a degree? See Solas' story about the matchmaking spirit who watched over a village (and might have been another variant of compassion-spirit).

 

 

Aye, the benefit of him going back to the Fade is to protect Mages and people in the Fade, like how he helped the Inky against Envy. I think that is more powerful than his minor help in the physical world as it prevents them from losing their minds also for their safety. 

 

 

 

Pondering how spirits of different principles/natures/virtues interact with each other is interesting. Purely in the Fade, a spirit probably doesn't encounter much resistance since it can shape its surroundings. Involve the static mortal world where that doesn't work and there's more potential for problems. If another spirit has an impossible goal and gets distressed over it, Compassion's attempt to soothe the distress might cause conflict -- but being left alone with an insurmountable problem could also cause the other spirit to become twisted away from its nature, like "our" Cole was twisted by his grief over not being able to prevent the "real" Cole's death. Hopefully, Compassion's insight into the nature of things could show it some way to help, even in a roundabout way like the "odd things" Cole does in Skyhold.

 

Indeed! I think he will most likely succeed in helping other spirits because as a spirit he said [ with the right words ], that means he will most less likely to screw up in helping people. I think he won't have to press the "reset" button aka "forget" as often when helping others. Now, this bit here.. if Compassion experiences the turmoil and hurt over the real Cole's death, I'm confounded as why didn't he turn to a demon when humanized with all those pain cause essentially he's still a spirit. But if I'm wrong, then making him human actually turned him fully human. If that's the case....... say if another type of spirit experience what Compassion did, are they human? If they don't twist and become demons ofc. Hahah, my brain derped.

 

 

 

He can definitely do a lot of good here, in many ways, regardless of whether he becomes more spirit-like or more human-like. Helping people makes their lives better and gives demons less to "feed" on as a result. I like the idea of "starving" demons, as you said.   People who, with Cole's help, find new strength and hope and faith to do great things could also potentially attract the attention of other benign spirits ... or even "create" a new benign spirit, if their emotions are exceptionally strong? Finally, if people know that a spirit is among them and helping them, they might lose some of their ignorance and fear about spirits. Cole is like an "emissary" of the Fade, in a way, and Cassandra is one example of a person who starts to consider entirely new angles and ideas due to interacting with him (and with Solas).

 

YASS!! He would inspire humans and spirits alike to do more good... and if we're aiming for the highest purpose, perhaps end the war in Thedas. The Fear demon can be defeated, if not by combat, by good actions! But I think he makes people forget him after he helps them as a spirit, no? 

[Korva]

Indeed! I think he will most likely succeed in helping other spirits because as a spirit he said [ with the right words ], that means he will most less likely to screw up in helping people.

 

Yes, hearing him say that and seeing his new confidence really made me really happy after watching him struggle with finding the right words and trusting himself for much of the game.

 

Now, this bit here.. if Compassion experiences the turmoil and hurt over the real Cole's death, I'm confounded as why didn't he turn to a demon when humanized with all those pain cause essentially he's still a spirit. But if I'm wrong, then making him human actually turned him fully human.

 

There are a few instances in which he expresses resolve not to become a demon "again", so I suppose you could say he was a (likely despair-related) demon for a while at the White Spire. Or rather a strange demon-human hybrid with a faint echo of his true self, and so confused and lost he had totally forgotten his origins and nature until Lord Seeker Lambert so rudely revealed them.

 

He says was always fully human, physically. What he accomplished is altogether remarkable -- both that he managed to create that fully-human body for himself, and the fact that he managed to claw his way back from demon-like to the still-confused but much closer to his spirit-self state we first encounter him in at Therinfal (or Haven).

 

YASS!! He would inspire humans and spirits alike to do more good... and if we're aiming for the highest purpose, perhaps end the war in Thedas. The Fear demon can be defeated, if not by combat, by good actions! But I think he makes people forget him after he helps them as a spirit, no?

 

The people he helps in passing, yes. Not seeking gratitude or even acknowledgement is part of his entirely selfless nature. But he can choose to reveal himself and let people remember, like with the Inquisitor and the inner circle. My Inquisitor would try to see if she can encourage him to expand that "comfort zone" a bit more, to other hopefully open-minded people at Skyhold. Maybe some of the healers, since he's bound to spend a lot of time around their patients. Maybe Mother Giselle, since a cleric's word carries a lot of weight with the people and she's also a dedicated helper of those in need.

[Lunch Box1912]

Spirit. He seemed happier and less conflicted after vs becoming human.

[Secret Rare]

Spirit, because Humans sometime are a delusion.

[zambingo]

The more I experience Cole the less I am disgusted with him, due to his horrible stabbiness, and the more I just want to put him back the way he was... in the fade as a spirit. Sadly neither option seems along the path of restoration, instead both are making due with the present. Too bad the Mark wasn't a help in this respect, something like boom... let go of your earthly bonds, spirit. Back to the fade with you.

Ugh. But back to the choices; had to go with forgiveness and then hope for the best.

[zambingo]

*Looks at Justice.

The samething can be said about spirits.

You refer to Justice a lot as rationalization for Spirit Cole Bad Choice but Human Cole Good Choice. However isn't Justice's problem being bound to Ander's pain? In Awakening, except for missing the song, Justice acted as he did (at least in that short span we knew him from the fade). It's the merging with Anders that seemingly corrupts both, the staying earth bound instead of dying and moving back to whatever after. Isn't that mirrored in Cole right before we make the choice? When it is shown he is skewed by his tethering to the Templar and Real Cole. Not saying this means one choice is better, but it seems that Cole like Justice is perverting due to being attached to a hurting person's perspective.

In that light both choices free Cole from that, so both choices should offer a chance for better than what was prior to... meaning prior to the choice not necesarily prior to the initial step out of a fade form.

[LostInReverie19]

I prefer him becoming human so much more. It's just so sad if he stays like a spirit. I get that he becomes happier if he stays more like a spirit but at the cost of giving up so much! He purposely forgets the real Cole, and that is just so heartbreaking to me. I've only ever made him more spirit like once, and I don't think I can ever do that again. From now on Cole is always going to become more human in all my play throughs. It may not make him as happy as remaining a spirit, but I think that in the long run it's the better outcome for him. 

[CalyKitsune]

Warning (Spoilers!!!)

 

Human. To be honest, I love Cole, he's adorable, and yes I'm biased, I have a huge crush on his personality. He's not a child, just a spirit with major culture shock and an emotional language barrier, somewhat.

 

For the sake philosophical argument, think of it this way: The whole "he willfully manifested himself as a young man" because he couldn't save the real Cole... well in a way he did. He took the name, the memories, and the shape of Cole. If our Cole had not done what he did, no one would ever have known what had happened, would not have remembered the poor boy, who died of starvation in the dark dungeon of the Spire. And if he turns back into a spirit... He makes himself forget the "real" Cole. Which would eventually turn into everyone forgetting what happened, forgetting Cole entirely. What then, would have been the point of it?

 

Cole would probably always maintain a part of his spirit, Compassion, while becoming more human. Yes, becoming human is painful for him. But in the long run, he would live on literally in the real Cole's name. If he figured that out, wouldn't he think it was worth it? Wouldn't you? Cause I sure would.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Gotta say, it shocks me so many people prefer making him more human, given all the complaints I remember hearing about making the geth individuals in ME3.

[Cha0sEff3ct]

Warning (Spoilers!!!)

 

Human. To be honest, I love Cole, he's adorable, and yes I'm biased, I have a huge crush on his personality. He's not a child, just a spirit with major culture shock and an emotional language barrier, somewhat.

 

For the sake philosophical argument, think of it this way: The whole "he willfully manifested himself as a young man" because he couldn't save the real Cole... well in a way he did. He took the name, the memories, and the shape of Cole. If our Cole had not done what he did, no one would ever have known what had happened, would not have remembered the poor boy, who died of starvation in the dark dungeon of the Spire. And if he turns back into a spirit... He makes himself forget the "real" Cole. Which would eventually turn into everyone forgetting what happened, forgetting Cole entirely. What then, would have been the point of it?

 

Cole would probably always maintain a part of his spirit, Compassion, while becoming more human. Yes, becoming human is painful for him. But in the long run, he would live on literally in the real Cole's name. If he figured that out, wouldn't he think it was worth it? Wouldn't you? Cause I sure would.

I love Cole! He's totally not a child like everyone sees him to be, he's just not as knowledgeable about the world outside the fade so he has a childlike sensibility and curiosity. It's a little bit like EDI in Mass Effect 3. He would've been cute to romance if you could and would've been an interesting romance as well.

 

I agree with making him more human especially because of his being able to willfully manifest himself into the real Cole as much as he could. 

 

Oh and you're in the spoiler section btw so no need to warn. lol   

 

That one mission where you help a spirit of command carry just one command before they return to the fade is very telling and Solas's conversations about spirits embodying one virtue. If you keep him as a spirit, you're confining him to his original nature just being the embodiment of compassion. While not a bad thing, Cole cannot grow. Spirits only know what they're meant to do/be. They become demons when that duty is perverted in some way. In being human, he can understand so much more than he could initially. All he knew was compassion, a good virtue, but too much of something is not always good. He was killing people because of his compassion. His friend Rhys showed him that isn't the only way a well as the inquisitor should you choose certain dialogue options. And not only is he avenging Cole in a sense by letting him live on and becoming him, he is being given this rare opportunity that other spirits don't get to in understanding the other side of the veil. Going back to that spirit of command, she couldn't understand why nothing obeyed her which is all she knows. However, she is content being what she is. I believe Cole wants more than just embodying compassion. 

 

He's kind of like the opposite of Justice in Anders. Anders was driven by Justice to seek "justice". Justice another good virtue in its own right can be taken too far like blowing up Grand Cleric Elthina! Cole although not possessing the actual Cole is driven a little more than compassion, in becoming Cole he also was trying to understand Cole/being human. Anders was pretty much forced by Justice to do a lot of things. Justice didn't want to compromise with the rules of this world and being Anders and submitting to what was meaningful to Anders i.e. when in a romance he comments how Justice disapproves of the romance and sees you as a distraction. I think having Cole completely obsessed with compassion is not a good decision. You'll have another Justice in your hands.

 

Plus, you want to force him to wear some ugly medallion on his shirt for the rest of his life?

 

Looking back I really loved the Anders romance, the struggle between him and trying to overcome Justice. They could've done something similar in romancing Cole. It makes for a good romance, while compassionate on his own, how can he balance the need for showing compassion to everyone and his love for the inquisitor. Something to think about for a future romance... 

[Cha0sEff3ct]

 

 

He reminds me of another character from a game (or maybe anime) I can't remember the name though. An adult with an innocent mind due to lack of worldly knowledge. People mistook him for a kid, but he was very much a man too.

 

I think I know what game or anime it might be but I can't remember it either. Another example though is Anya from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Actually she's almost exactly similar to Cole's situation. In a sense, she embodied Vengeance like Cole embodied compassion. Only she was on the more demony side compared to Cole. She was a vengeance demon turned human. All she knew was Vengeance until she lost her demon powers of giving people the vengeance they wanted and became human. She constantly has to be taught what's appropriate and what isn't it and it makes her weird and quirky in a fun way. One of my favorite Buffy characters!

 

I like how unusual Cole is. It's cute.

 

Inquisitor: I'll speak with you later, Cole.

Cole: How do you know?

 

aww lol

[Cha0sEff3ct]

I hate when I can't remember, yet i know it. Lol At first I thought of Sai in Naruto, but he was just socially awkward and had no emotions, but was older than everyone else, yet acted like a kid. But no, it's someone else.

 

It's too bad we couldn't have helped Justice that way too, but Anders said he was no longer Justice thanks to his hatred. Only Vengeance remained.

 

Lol yeah and my fav part with Cole is when he's scared before the final battle, so my Inquisitor sits with him on the ledge and he thanks her shyly.

 

I still can't think of it. Eventually one of us will remember. lol

 

I totally forgot that Anders said Vengeance remained. Exactly what Solas was talking about when he said when a spirit's purpose becomes perverted. I can't fully blame Anders for blowing up the chantry. Plus, he was my LI. Hell, if you think about it the Inquisitor and the Divine are in a way responsible for blowing up the conclave. lol

 

So many favorite parts with Cole. I love how each of the companions have something to say when Cole and Solas have random banter. Cassandra's like what on in the world are you two talking about? It's cute how Cole left the little ducky for Dorian, I think and found some piece of jewelry that Cassandra thought she lost that was given by her grandmother or something. Totally not remembering them correctly though. Or when he's at the Temple of Mythal and Morrigan goes off after Abelas. "She became a bird?"

[Richiesdisplayname]

What I don't get is how a spirit of compassion can justify the hundreds of people he's killed with me. Yeah, they were baddies, but shouldn't compassion feel even for baddies?

[SwobyJ]

What I don't get is how a spirit of compassion can justify the hundreds of people he's killed with me. Yeah, they were baddies, but shouldn't compassion feel even for baddies?

 

I think he does? It would just interrupt the gameplay too much for him to say things about it each time.

[LostInReverie19]

 Gotta say, it shocks me so many people prefer making him more human, given all the complaints I remember hearing about making the geth individuals in ME3.

 

I'm not one of the people who complained about making the Geth individuals. That's totally what I tried to do every time and pretty much for the same reasons as making Cole more human.