238 réponses à ce sujet

[axlorg89]

Planning: Due to being spoiled, I knew i had to make this decision. I antagonized it in my head but nothing gave me a clear cut answer (Curse you Weekes).

 

Process: When I finally got to the scene, I made sure to hear Varric's and Solas's side before finally resorting to my own. Granted, I was romanced to Solas and had completed his personal mission(Which triggered a banter with Solas and Cole about spirits of virtues), though I changed my perspective. I decided to view this as what's best for Cole. I recognized Cole came here with a wish, not to be human, but to instead help people. He was a spirit of compassion, I felt it was wrong to make him more human rather than stay true to himself. Though I wanted to see the Templar dealed with, I ultimately let Cole forgive the soldier as it was himself. Cole seemed happy enough in Val Royeaux.

 

Aftermath(A.K.A. Last Scene with Cole): Having Cole forget... Well... Cole, gave me the chills. It fit his spirit version so I was still satisfied with it but there was a sneaking twinge of regret. I later checked out his last scene if he was human and that felt much more happier and hit me a bit. Each are a resolution on it's own, just depends on the Cole.

 

Verdict: I kept him Spirit and will stay with my decision. I felt this is the true Cole, AKA a spirit of compassion.

[Mlady]

I always thought human was best until Trespasser. He's needed as a Spirit and has deep insight into things, as well as one of the few who want to help Solas, and he's so happy as a spirit and despite that scene where he forgets Cole, he's very lovable as a Spirit and teases my Inquisitor all the time and laughs too. Never let that one scene change your feelings. If you don't take him to the final fight, he even tries make you laugh at the party. He's not emotionless. That one scene on the ramparts was just done a bit poorly. In Trespasser he talks a lot too.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I always keep him Spirit. Despair is Cole's biggest fear and in my mind he's much more likely to experience that (or becoming it) as a more human Cole. 

[magic713]

Even before Trespasser, I'd still would choose Spirit, because Cole fulfills his role as a spirit of Compassion. He helps people (and apparently more people) without gaining the recognition for his deeds and he is happy simply helping. 

 

Now that I've seen Trespasser, I am glad I made him more Spirit. I see him more as a matchmaker than as a boyfriend. If I got the impression he was a little more happy as Human than Spirit, I would've made him Human. But that was not the case.

 

The only reason I would choose to make him more Human would be if it would determine if he would appear in a future Dragon Age game. But I am all for Spirit Cole over Human Cole.

[Mlady]

Even before Trespasser, I'd still would choose Spirit, because Cole fulfills his role as a spirit of Compassion. He helps people (and apparently more people) without gaining the recognition for his deeds and he is happy simply helping. 

 

Now that I've seen Trespasser, I am glad I made him more Spirit. I see him more as a matchmaker than as a boyfriend. If I got the impression he was a little more happy as Human than Spirit, I would've made him Human. But that was not the case.

 

The only reason I would choose to make him more Human would be if it would determine if he would appear in a future Dragon Age game. But I am all for Spirit Cole over Human Cole.

 

I tested both before Trespasser, but felt Human was what he wanted based on Varric's words, then as a Spirit when he thanks me for not leaving him like Rhys did, knowing the truth, I realized he just wants to be accepted for what he is and not changed into what others think he wants. Doesn't mean being Human is bad or makes him unhappy, but Spirit seems much happier and still human in his own way too.

[stop_him]

I kept him a spirit, especially after learning he hooks up with the minstrel chick if he becomes human. (I mean, really? The girl who is perfectly happy to cut out another girl's tongue? That's not a nice person in my book.)

[Former_Fiend]

I turn him human because it limits his ability to violate other people's minds. 

[Hydwn]

Even before Trespasser, I'd still would choose Spirit, because Cole fulfills his role as a spirit of Compassion. He helps people (and apparently more people) without gaining the recognition for his deeds and he is happy simply helping. 

 

Now that I've seen Trespasser, I am glad I made him more Spirit. I see him more as a matchmaker than as a boyfriend. If I got the impression he was a little more happy as Human than Spirit, I would've made him Human. But that was not the case.

 

The only reason I would choose to make him more Human would be if it would determine if he would appear in a future Dragon Age game. But I am all for Spirit Cole over Human Cole.

 

This, with the added benefit that it got a happily ever after for Krem, one of my favourite characters.  I save my canon playthrough for last - after I've seen all other outcomes - and decided to switch my canon playthrough to "Cole as a Spirit" for Krem and for Cole.

[thats1evildude]

In my mind, the Human vs. Spirit choice is about Cole's personal happiness vs. the benefit of others. As a pure spirit of compassion, he can help more people, but spirits are limited beings incapable of growth. As a human, he will experience pain, but he will be a more complete individual.

So I chose human. Spirits are a dime a dozen, but Cole is unique.

[Wahed89]

When I played my first run through I usually made decisions that felt right to me, that I personally agreed with. So because I trusted Varric more than Solas (I thought the former was friendly and spoke with compassion whereas the latter was stuck up and self-serving), and because I thought Cole "deserved" to be human, I chose to make him human.

 

My two play throughs since then I have made Cole a spirit. I as a human thought it almost "good" or "better" for him to be human, like being a spirit was a negative. But since then, with everything I've read and experienced, I think it's better he stays a spirit. It sends the message that being a spirit is not wrong, and he should be accepted as who he is. It took more understanding of what a spirit is to decide that the only reason I thought being human was the "best" thing for him is because that's what I am. I don't and didn't understand what being a spirit means, so it seems a bit pretentious for me to decide his fate. I also think that being a spirit makes Cole unique and special, his powers would certainly be missed.

 

The biggest thing I hate about the decision though is having to agree with Solas over Varric lol.

[Korva]

Not being a human, he doesn't share the pain of others anymore when accessing them, he can help them without suffering at the same time. The problem is this means he lost his ability to empathize, he can identify the problem and correct it, but all in a very detached way, he is not connecting with others anymore. He becomes complete, happy, but similar to a robot that is controled by one single directive - although with a sense of fulfillment.

 

I don't understand where this impression of Cole (or any self-aware spirit in general) being or a robot, or incapable of "real" emotion, or unable to form "real" bonds comes from. The fact that he is so happy and fulfilled and at peace contradicts that right out of the gate -- he is Compassion, not Joy or Peace or whatever. If he was merely a robot, he would feel no fulfillment when he helps others, nor the despair that is his greatest fear and evil mirror when he can't help. He's also shown to feel relief, gratitude, fondness for certain indiviuals, grief, distress and conflict as well as the ability to psych himself up for dealing with such situations. And that's just from dialogue exclusive to the more-spirit path -- many of Cole's lines remain the same no matter the outcome of his quest. Plus, curiosity if a known trait of spirits, even those who (like Solas' friend Wisdom) do not actually want to cross over into the mortal world. The same is true for the ability to feal fear and pain, and acting on such feelings out of self-preservation. They have also been portrayed as feeling love and care for individuals and whole communities. Even if we ignore Solas' friendsips with spirits because he is a rather special case, there's also Wynne's near-lifelong bond with Faith, or the mutual love between the Augur's apprentice in JoH and the spirit who has joined with her as a combination of teacher and closest friend.

 

Compassion is Cole's dominant emotion, of course, because it is his nature. It colours and drives most everything he says and does to an extent we probably can only begin to imagine, and he lacks the first-hand grasp of certain more complex mortal issues, but that does not mean that either his empathy or his other emotions are somehow unreal.

 

Spirits can learn while still remaining themselves. In one of his banters with Cole, Solas mentions that it's contact with this side of the Veil that develops that ability. Contact, not aping mortals or being here physically.

 

Really hard decision, but I think I will go with the spirit path because I believe judging what is better for him from a human's POV is inherently wrong. We should try to look at it from the perspective of a spirit and I think Solas is the best one to listen on this.

 

This I fully agree with, although Trespasser utterly tanked my opinion of Solas. The fact that spirits (at least the self-aware ones) are individuals and people and worthy of being recognized and respected as such is one lesson I'm grateful he helped me learn, though interacting with Cole did most of the teaching.

[Korva]

Never let that one scene change your feelings. If you don't take him to the final fight, he even tries make you laugh at the party. He's not emotionless. That one scene on the ramparts was just done a bit poorly.

 

Exactly. The ending of that scene is very poorly done, but it doesn't change the overall very positive impression I have of this choice.

 

But since then, with everything I've read and experienced, I think it's better he stays a spirit. It sends the message that being a spirit is not wrong, and he should be accepted as who he is. It took more understanding of what a spirit is to decide that the only reason I thought being human was the "best" thing for him is because that's what I am. I don't and didn't understand what being a spirit means, so it seems a bit pretentious for me to decide his fate. I also think that being a spirit makes Cole unique and special, his powers would certainly be missed.

 

Those are precisely some of my biggest reasons for choosing this, too -- we have the tendency to think "more like me is better" or "not like me is wrong", and that gets ugly fast and frequently. Doing one's best to understand and appreciate a spirit is a challenge, but IMO it's a worthwhile one which was one of the most enjoyable aspects of the mgame by far. Cole has quite a bit to learn, but also to teach.

 

The biggest thing I hate about the decision though is having to agree with Solas over Varric lol.

[EBDerevko]

The first (and only) time I made him more human (because I found him creepy,) I immediately regretted it. He seemed unhappy and kept saying he was hurting. I know, he was probably adjusting, but I didn't like seeing him suffer. It didn't feel natural.

 

So I reloaded a previous save and made him more like a spirit, and while I didn't like it either anyway, he seemed more at peace. More like... that was what he was supposed to be, regardless of my comfort.

 

What if you turn him more human and, it time, maybe that means he eventually distorts his purpose and goes full demon? I didn't want to risk that.

[Jaison1986]

Exactly. The ending of that scene is very poorly done, but it doesn't change the overall very positive impression I have of this choice.

 

 

Those are precisely some of my biggest reasons for choosing this, too -- we have the tendency to think "more like me is better" or "not like me is wrong", and that gets ugly fast and frequently. Doing one's best to understand and appreciate a spirit is a challenge, but IMO it's a worthwhile one which was one of the most enjoyable aspects of the mgame by far. Cole has quite a bit to learn, but also to teach.

 

The biggest thing I hate about the decision though is having to agree with Solas over Varric lol.

 

Now you're putting words in people's mouths. How is it wanting Cole to be more human imply that we do not accept others who are different? I couldn't care less about that. The thing is that Cole, like Varric says, already changed himself when he came here. This is about helping him survive this transition. Give him a chance to learn and to grow. But that's it, as a spirit, he barely does that. Just like any other spirit, he keeps stagnated, but as a human, he have so many opportunities to learn so many things. Why not allow him that? By no means I want to make other spirits like Cole, but he is an special case, and this is a unique chance to help him see the world in a way no other spirit could.

[TK514]

Human.

[actionhero112]

Human. 

 

Cole came to this world due to an overwhelming feeling of compassion. However that feeling of compassion has led him astray many times since he crossed the veil. He's been a serial killer because of an original feeling of compassion. No matter how you want to spin it, Cole's a murderer.  

 

In letting him be human, I feel I've saved him from himself. The way Cole was going, he was toeing the line between demon and spirit quite often. In letting him choose to be human, I've eliminated the possibility of him becoming a demon, which is the entire point of why Cole entrusts you with quest in the first place.  Spirit Cole is nice, but eventually he's going to be confronted with a decision he can only solve by killing someone. And then we're back were we started.

[RenAdaar]

He seemed like he wanted to be more human so thats what I picked 

[Tamyn]

I picked spirit the first time because Cole is special as he is. Why should I take that uniqueness away from him and make him like every other person just to fit in? I am not going to rid him of what he alone can contribute to the world by minimizing his gifts.

[Korva]

Now you're putting words in people's mouths. How is it wanting Cole to be more human imply that we do not accept others who are different?

 

When did I say that you do that? I said that we have a tendency to consider what is more like us to be superior. Of course not everyone who chooses the more-human path thinks of spirit as not-people, but quite a few do -- or at least prioritize the human POV over everything else because we are human.

 

Give him a chance to learn and to grow. But that's it, as a spirit, he barely does that. Just like any other spirit, he keeps stagnated, but as a human, he have so many opportunities to learn so many things. Why not allow him that?

 

I'd rather ask: why allow him that, what makes it superior to preserving an extremely rare spirit's purity? It would be one thing if he wanted it, but he never once expresses that wish, yet he repeatedly identifies as a spirit and expresses the desire to be just that.

 

He's been a serial killer because of an original feeling of compassion.

 

He was a lost, confused and corrupted thing that didn't even know what he was. None of that is an excuse, and he knows that and gets upset if you try to coddle him. But what he was in Asunder was not remotely spirit-like. He pretty much says he was a demon at the time, and is so deeply committed to never becoming like that again that he repeatedly insists you must kill him if he slips.

 

No matter how you want to spin it, Cole's a murderer.

 

So is pretty much everyone else. Mortals are easily and frequently corrupted, or outright choose evil.

 

Spirit Cole is nice, but eventually he's going to be confronted with a decision he can only solve by killing someone. And then we're back were we started.

 

You mean like in every single battle over the course of his time in Inquisition? It's hard on him, but he can kill without hurting himself.

[Mlady]

Maybe I'm seeing things differently, but as a spirit he is just as human. He is funny, jokes, teases, is very caring and filled with life. How is that a bad thing? I found human Cole in Trespasser to be changed, but Spirit Cole felt like the Cole I met at the fortress, but with a weight off his shoulders.

[Ryzaki]

Like I said before Human Cole has enough sense of self to gain enough tact to stop himself when he's speaking about people's private matters (not completely because he's still Cole but he puts his foot in his mouth less than Spirit cole because lo and behold he is capable of understanding more human emotions).

 

And I really really dislike that creepy thing. The fact that Cole's mind reading ability gets stronger is just wrong.

[Mlady]

Like I said before Human Cole has enough sense of self to gain enough tact to stop himself when he's speaking about people's private matters (not completely because he's still Cole but he puts his foot in his mouth less than Spirit cole because lo and behold he is capable of understanding more human emotions).

 

And I really really dislike that creepy thing. The fact that Cole's mind reading ability gets stronger is just wrong.

 

It's not that it gets stronger, he's just more focused and can help anyone who is in need. In Trespasser he's actually a lot of fun and not creepy. Him and Sera just kill me lol but Human Cole was so unhappy to be taken to the Crossroads. He felt uncomfortable and that made me feel bad. He's my go-to Rogue but even though he's found a new life and someone to share it with, it felt like he was losing a part of himself. I don't know. Maybe if it would have been handled differently in Trespasser I wouldn't feel so bad about making him Human.

[Ryzaki]

It's not that it gets stronger, he's just more focused and can help anyone who is in need. In Trespasser he's actually a lot of fun and not creepy. Him and Sera just kill me lol but Human Cole was so unhappy to be taken to the Crossroads. He felt uncomfortable and that made me feel bad. He's my go-to Rogue but even though he's found a new life and someone to share it with, it felt like he was losing a part of himself. I don't know. Maybe if it would have been handled differently in Trespasser I wouldn't feel so bad about making him Human.

 

Thus making it stronger. Reading people's mind and broadcasting it is not going to stop being creepy to me. He's well meaning but yeah it's still not going to stop being creepy. Even when he was all "you're sad Iron Bull." he still needs a few more years as a human to realize instead of saying that to saying something comforting instead.

 

Also I didn't feel he was that unhappy in the fade? I felt that he had mostly the same dialogue as spirit cole (which actually kind of cheesed me off) in the fade. And he didn't say anything other than the Maryden lines (and the random one liners) outside of it.

[Mlady]

Thus making it stronger. Reading people's mind and broadcasting it is not going to stop being creepy to me. He's well meaning but yeah it's still not going to stop being creepy. Even when he was all "you're sad Iron Bull." he still needs a few more years as a human to realize instead of saying that to saying something comforting instead.

 

Also I didn't feel he was that unhappy in the fade? I felt that he had mostly the same dialogue as spirit cole (which actually kind of cheesed me off) in the fade. And he didn't say anything other than the Maryden lines (and the random one liners) outside of it.

 

What he said about a betrayed Bull was creepy though. He felt nothing... wow Bull... I think he was re-educated.

 

He felt uncomfortable at one point in the library where Spirit Cole said he felt he belonged, then told us Solas was close. I was hoping Human Cole would be over his fear of the Fade, but something really scares him and it might not be because he's Human. It seems that whatever happened to it makes his human side's skin crawl in the main game too. I just want the kid happy. Hopefully he will be with Maryden.

[actionhero112]

 

You mean like in every single battle over the course of his time in Inquisition? It's hard on him, but he can kill without hurting himself.

 

Eventually he's going to be confronted with a decision that when he undertakes it, will lead him to become a demon. It's happened before, it will happen again. The world is full of impossible ideals that are in conflict with each other, and that warps a spirit's identity. It happens to the best of them. 

 

Humans, on the other hand, can make those hard decisions and walk away without losing everything that they are. I let Cole be a human so he could never become what he fears. What he asked you to do for him.

 

Obviously not every death Cole causes will warp him. But there will be those that will. I will protect him from that. 

 

Ask yourself what happened to Justice. Do you really want to risk that happening to Cole? When there is an alternative?