9 réponses à ce sujet

[Foune]

Okay so I've got a few questions concerning spirits and demons, I thought I knew everything about them like, a spirit is nice, a demon is bad.

 

I just did some quests in Emprise du Lion, I met this dude called Imshael whom insists that he is a spirit of choice, yet during the dialougue he shows some very demon like tendencies, like striking a deal to save his life by offering me power, wealth or virgins. And if you decide to attack him, he takes another shape and I don't know if my eyes are bad but he certainly looks VERY MUCH like a demon to me, taking forms of desire, rage and pride during the battle aswell as controlling red templars. Yet he insists he's a spirit, why would a demon do that? Don't they hate each other? Why would they pretend to be one another?

 

 

And then we have Solas whom I must congratulate on making a terrific job at confusing me out of my mind, he says that spirits and demons are just spirits, and it is the one who perceives them that decides what they are. As en example, Solas can go to the fade and meet a demon, but because he believes it's a spirit then it becomes a spirit... What the hell, so during the time you are in the Fade struggling against the nightmare demon, I could just have believed him to be a nice spirit and everything would have been all right? 

 

 

And then we have Cole, why do my companions insist that he's a demon? He certainly dosn't look like one, and he helps people out of compassion, that pretty much seem like traits that go against everything about demons...

 

 

Dragon Age has always been so nice because the lore has been so easily explained, but right now I'm confused out of my mind, walking around and thinking ''what is real''?

[Ranadiel Marius]

The distinction between spirits and demons is just one made by man. In truth the two are really just the same "species" just some focus on positive emotions and some focus on negative emotions. Assuming that Imshael is being truthful, he embodies choice which could certainly be said to be a positive aspect of reality (hence why he could be seen as a spirit). However...he certainly has a dark take on choice, so I think most scholars would view him as a demon that embodies the darkest choices that man can make despite his insistence.

I think Solas's stance is more that since spirits/demons are attracted based on the emotions they embody, if you go into the fade with positive emotions you'll attract spirits and not demons. Vice versa for negative emotions. With Nightmare, you landed in his realm, so there was no attracting anything involved.

With Cole some companions (Sera) are just squimish regarding the fade. Others (Viv) are just being overly cautious because spirits entering reality is a event rare enough to almost be unheard of so she assumes it is a demon instead.

[Carmen_Willow]

What is that line in Shakespeare "...but thinking makes is so"?   I think you have the right of it. If you enter the Fade expecting to find demons, you find demons. Think about it: the chantry mage is trained to expect an attack by demons during the Harrowing. You get what you wish for in the Fade, it seems. So positive thinking can give you positive spirits. Of course is someone else is thinking negatively, then their demons might just attack you--so watch out.

 

Spirit, like energy, seems to be immortal and can neither be created nor destroyed, but it can change form. And like quantum physics, the act of observation can determine the form. 

 

Remember when "Enchantment" boy says something to the effect that someday it will all come back and everyone will have magic? Many of us suspect that the veil is an artificial barrier created for some reason by those older immortal beings called "elven gods," for some reason. If the veil is finally destroyed, removed, whatever, all that magic, all those spirits pour into reality, like water.

 

At least I think that's where they're going - who knows?  Just my humble opinion.

[The Ascendant]

If a spirit can become a demon, couldn't a demon become a spirit. I think that Imshael is trying (and failing) to be a spirit of choice, but he is Demon.

Cole on the other hand has always been a spirit of compassion, but he is conflicted whether to focus on his human form of spiritual nature.

In the Fade, the soul/spirit that was (maybe) Divine Justina seemed to genuinely be the Divine. I think that her faith was so strong that she became a spirit of Faith and resolved to help the mortals of Thedas and the Inquisitor. She died in the Fade. Who knows the results of such an event.

Spirits and demons are immortal, 'killing' them only sends them back to the Fade, where they will reform after a time.  

[Foune]

Wow this was actually very helpful, I think I get it now. But Imshael still seems a special case, a spirit inbetween negative and positive, choices can be either right? Not often we see that.

[Bucky]

They can actually change one into the other.  Cole has a banter with Cassandra where he asks her to kill him if he ever becomes a demon.

 

Spoiler

Also, if you do Solas's personal quest in the Exalted Plains, his friend, a spirit of wisdom, has been summoned and bound by mages and made to kill in their defense.  This turned the spirit into a pride demon.  If you choose to release the binding rather than kill the pride demon, it reverts to a spirit of wisdom before it dies.

[GamerJhon]

You could also consider that "good" spirits can make bad choices even if they have good intentions.

Take Justice from Awakening. Sure, everything about him is good and he has noble intentions, but the real world is complex and not always black and white. So in the Fade, maybe the spirits and demons have clear goals, but in the real world, their goals get muddled up.

According to Justice's ideals, everyone must pay for their sins. If a farmer stole wheat from a mean, fat noble, the farmer has to pay for his crime because that's what the law says.

When you think about it deeper, is it really wrong for demons or "bad" spirits to want to be in the real world. Sure most want to stab you to death, but some just want to be in our world.

Even Solas mentions that the demons that came from the Rifts are just normal spirits that were confused and angry and being forced to enter the real world when some didn't really want to be there.

[Dean_the_Young]

Spirits and demons are the same. They're both dangerous. Spirits are treated with caution if interacted with at all while demons are to be avoided all together. The distinction is that a demon is a spirit whose original purpose has been perverted. For example a Spirit of Wisdom gone wrong is a Pride Demon.

 

This makes an implicit assumption that spirits are basically non-malevolent, while demons will aways be harmful. I don't think that would be a good assumption (Choice. Spirit.), nor should we overlook the possibility that a 'demon' could be twisted/perverted/changed into something less malign.

 

Anytime we use the Chantry's distinction of Spirits and Demons, it's better to remember that the classification is more ex post facto, an evaluation once we see the results, than a classification that implies predictability going forward. A demon is a demon because it harms, whether or not it is 'corrupted' or not.

[2_BR4ZIL_2]

Wow this was actually very helpful, I think I get it now. But Imshael still seems a special case, a spirit inbetween negative and positive, choices can be either right? Not often we see that.

 

This may not help you, but i took this line of thought during that quest.

 

Imshael made his choice to ally with the Red Templars and later wanted to bail out, i gave him a chance to surrender which he didint took it, thus he is as much as a enemy as any of the other Red Templars, Freemen of the Dales, etc.

 

I didint judge him on the fact that he was a demon, but i did so because he was on the side of the enemy, if anything, i found rather fair that we fought and i killed him based on grounded allegiances and not on misconceptions of each other.

 

Just because he is a diferent demon doesnt mean he didint made stupid choices, doing dumb $#%¨¨ is what makes everyone look similar