Questa discussione ha avuto 191 risposte

[Blackstork]

Would that work for an archer too? Maybe with added Longshot and some passives...
I am considering re-rolling one on NM soon.

Any rogue. Shadow Strike also gret thing to peel melees from you or just help to team with more disables.  You are playing short range archer. You just need to evade alot and could be awesomly effective being close range kiter (Like Duchess). Be sure to pick longshot (no need for upgrade). It is used for shatterings and ruptures (also pick Lunge for SnB warrior). The key is to CC and combo alot. With MK you auto-crit on any sleeping or panicked enemy including all Act 1 bosses (Champions/Whispers and Haven) who are not immune to panic status so if you stack with bees and keep them till those fights, they will be cakewalk if you have MK.

[Matth85]

Any rogue. Shadow Strike also gret thing to peel melees from you or just help to team with more disables.  You are playing short range archer. You just need to evade alot and could be awesomly effective being close range kiter (Like Duchess). Be sure to pick longshot (no need for upgrade). It is used for shatterings and ruptures (also pick Lunge for SnB warrior). The key is to CC and combo alot. With MK you auto-crit on any sleeping or panicked enemy including all Act 1 bosses (Champions/Whispers and Haven) who are not immune to panic status so if you stack with bees and keep them till those fights, they will be cakewalk if you have MK.

The issue with that, is that Long Shot and Full Draw get modifier for being at range. You also get 25% more damage, via the passive, if you are 2 meters above(elevation) your target. It seem rather counter productive to be a close-quarter-kiter.

[Demiga]

Im on my second playthrough - 1st was Mage - didnt look at any builds wanted to figure it out for myself - 2nd playthrough Im lvl 11 (just) DW Rogue - I love the builds ive seen here and I gotta say i havent truly paid attention to some of the bugged things (I honestly thought that the Deathblow 2nd strike was supposed to cost another 50 stamina!) hah! im an idiot lol.

 

But seriously - this post is about Iron Bulls build (2h Warrior) - Now, I know that AI controlled chars suck pretty bad in this game as far as choosing what to do and when - but Right now I built IB around 2 main abilities and a massive survivability upg - I got mighty blow and upg - and got the other RH AOE - where he spins (cant think of the name) Then I went and got Challenge, Charging bull, and went straight to Unbowed - The reason for this is as a 2H warrior, I always send him with Cassandra into the middle, She casts warcry and challenge, and IB can pull another in with his challenge - at 5 enemies he has max guard every 32 seconds

 

I figured, yeah, i am sacrificing alot of stuns, and damage abilities to do this, but on nightmare I find the AI taking ALOT of damage when left unattended for any period of time- and i dont like spending every second in tactical camera for EVERY fight, even same level trash  

 

Id like to know what some others' thoughts are on a build like this - has anyone ever incorporated this into their Inquisitor's 2H build?

[Blackstork]

The issue with that, is that Long Shot and Full Draw get modifier for being at range. You also get 25% more damage, via the passive, if you are 2 meters above(elevation) your target. It seem rather counter productive to be a close-quarter-kiter.

You can cc and control rangers. you are much more vulnerable at range in most cases, and all mobs before Skyhold are not immune to sleep effects, except spellbinders. You are less archer more rogue thios way, and you cover that lack of FD with your crit and cc ability. There alot of people who wqill agree with me that on nightmare FF on CC and combos are much more important than heavy hitting alpha-strike abilties. You are more sustained, instead on LR burst. If your burst is not enough, you just going down. you cant cc, you can increase range agaion, but that part you from team members, and if things hairy, make harder for them to revive you. Kiting in close range with evade and scoring ruptures, shatterings and allowing to yerself to crit, while being able to disable certain enemies is much more useful, at least as i see it.

You say that FD will do awesome damage. Ok i have another idea for you, you come in stealth, position yourself to land KP in good cone so it covers at least 2 targets. You have Solas set to prefer Dispell or just mm it to place Dispell in tact, targets get massive spirit damage and panicked, you do SS from stealth and it is automatically critical strike and knock down target, decreasing all your CD for 4 seconds, and being increased for damage due being from stealth. You make back evade flip and proceed shooting those panic targets with auto-crit while moving. your Mage do Winter Grasp and you shatter it with LS. Check the example with Terror fighting sequence  below.

In very hairy situations tho you have 2 ccs , which are lifesavers and you can do things with them, you can not do normally just having  archery tree things, especially in storyline encounters. Even leaving some targets sleeping and un-attended may save some lives of  your team or your life.

 

As i said, you need to try it. Its just certain style, and some people used to it. I also remind that upgraded SS and massive damage it does reduce cd on your stealth greatly. It does good damage too and is CC which is very useful vs mobs like terrors. Being normal archer you suck vs Terrors, they just land on you and you are toast. With such kind of archer you combo, you put him sleep, detonate, then strike with SS for knockdown, then freeze it, then LS which will shatter. In 2 seconds you do 1 major critical hit from stealth, 2 massive damage detonation hits one spirit damage one physical and cold damage, and it ends up lying on the ground. You stun-detonation lock it till its dead.

as archer sitting to aim FD > terror jump on you, and you are down. It closes gap so your LS wont do good damage anyways if not used as detonator.

with such approach there 2 key words which change flow of the battle: CC and Combos. You simply optimize CC and Combo rotations so you lock target with cc chain and massive combo damage, while enjoing free auto-crits on it if it sleeping or panicking.

If you go for FD you can not allow such thing (to have SS and MK). Full Subtrefuge tree is very powerful start.

[Matth85]

You can cc and control rangers. you are much more vulnerable at range in most cases, and all mobs before Skyhold are not immune to sleep effects, except spellbinders. You are less archer more rogue thios way, and you cover that lack of FD with your crit and cc ability. There alot of people who wqill agree with me that on nightmare FF on CC and combos are much more important than heavy hitting dps abilties. If your burst is not enough, you just going off. Kiting in close range with evade and scoring ruptures, shatterings and allowing to yerself cto crit, while being able to disable certain enemies is much more useful, at least as i see it.

Which is fine -- but that would still be far from optimal in any setting as an archer. So the answer to the other poster: Don't do it as an archer. It's better for DW, as an archer you do what you do and, you do it from afar. It simply serves no purpose in being a close-ranged-kiting-archer. Other classes is better for that job, and dw could integrate that sort of playstyle with solid damage as well. 

 

there alot of people who wqill agree with me that on nightmare FF 

 

There is also a lot of people saying Rogues are the worst class in DA: I. A lot of people are also ignorant and often stupid, with a hint of shortsighted and entitlement. 

CC would be more valuable if we had a nightmare + difficulty. Oh, and a dead enemy = best CC of them all. It's simply counterproductive to play a ranger and not utilize one of your strongest passive (25% more damage) and 2 of your core abilities. 

[Blackstork]

Which is fine -- but that would still be far from optimal in any setting as an archer. So the answer to the other poster: Don't do it as an archer. It's better for DW, as an archer you do what you do and, you do it from afar. It simply serves no purpose in being a close-ranged-kiting-archer. Other classes is better for that job, and dw could integrate that sort of playstyle with solid damage as well. 

 

There is also a lot of people saying Rogues are the worst class in DA: I. A lot of people are also ignorant and often stupid, with a hint of shortsighted and entitlement. 

CC would be more valuable if we had a nightmare + difficulty. Oh, and a dead enemy = best CC of them all. It's simply counterproductive to play a ranger and not utilize one of your strongest passive (25% more damage) and 2 of your core abilities. 

Please read my excplanation, i re-edited post . you quoted very short part of it i made before i did additions. there is good example with Terror fighting sequence. If you sit on range you endanger yourself more and your team and gimp your damage, actually. Party combos is better damage resource. And CC is much much better with saving your and your team ass. Since you cant apply CC , your team will need withstand much highter damage from start, and especially with aoe teleport-disable mobs like Terrors , you will eat some dust by just sitting and firing arrows from afar. And you can deal with such Teror if it teleports to you if you have CC, if he does, actually you do iuncredible damage to him, and disable him, allowing to your team to focus fire and finish him.

 

Btw you said you will try. I have offer to you. Play Heaven fight once with your archer build, and one re-allocate your skills for such Full subtrefuge and try to play with CC and combos. 

Combos is thing that do much more damage than some start-game FD. Ah, and if you get 3 ranged shots during your FD aiming, you are toast.

You do more damage, do more crits and make your  team and self safer with subtrefuge. 

 

Also about DW - the problem of de that he need to go and dive. You do not need to dive. you shorten distance into range of your skills (which are  longer than melee range), CC, enjoy combo damage, flip back and proceed shotting several or constant auto-crits . Auto-cits. Versus normal AA. This is big difference, mate. 

 

And again, its just different style, which have own pros. It is better if you fighting teleporting, hightly mobile, or assasin mobs which  are outleveling you or just simply tough nad hard hitting. 

Just go back and read my terror (Fallow Mire , SC, Hinterlands) fighting sequence, and compare output.

[Matth85]

I get the playstyle; I just don't get why an archer would use it. It seem a DW rogue could to it more efficiently, and still do optimal dps. At that point being an archer is a weird choice. Given they are the same class, and you can change back and forth between archer and DW, I see no reason for an archer to lose damage for CC, when he can go DW and lose minimal dps for CC. It's a rather oneside trade, in my opinion.

 

But if you check through my builds, you see I do focus a lot on CC. Well, I get enough CC. The only time i do not focus on CC is for a DW rogue. That is because my build is built around a pseudo-assassin playstyle. I will, however, give your build a try and see how a DW feels with it.

[Blackstork]

I get the playstyle; I just don't get why an archer would use it. It seem a DW rogue could to it more efficiently, and still do optimal dps. At that point being an archer is a weird choice. Given they are the same class, and you can change back and forth between archer and DW, I see no reason for an archer to lose damage for CC, when he can go DW and lose minimal dps for CC. It's a rather oneside trade, in my opinion.

 

But if you check through my builds, you see I do focus a lot on CC. Well, I get enough CC. The only time i do not focus on CC is for a DW rogue. That is because my build is built around a pseudo-assassin playstyle. I will, however, give your build a try and see how a DW feels with it.

If i'd go solo, i would go with such build. I do it now with 1 party member only nightmare ff. (instead of 4 man party i have 2 man)

Archer is better because you do need to dive in order to deal auto-attacks. As  long you can combo stuff and crit with Mercy Killing, you are set. Range is safety. You can not do damage propely by DW if you evading. And yes, i changing sometimes. Thats the point, it gives flexibility. I, for example , switch to daggers for certain ecnounters, and ranged for some. I just have Long shot in case i need ranged detonator. If you got for Champions of the Just its better to CC DD even in majority of encounters, in order to get faster those archers, and cc are just invaluable there, while for envy demonm you grab bow , throw bees and autocrit him from long range while evading his ****.

[Matth85]

Added my static cage mage dps build which I used for killing Ferelden Frostback at level 11.

If you hate fire, it works fine! Not my faovurite build -- but I do enjoy me some fire above lightning

 

Will try the combo-subterfuge rogue build tomorrow, and do a playthrough pre-skyhold on a 2h warrior again. I want to try tanking with it, and see how viable that can be.

Also, if anybody got a particular build, or anything else they want tested, I go could go ahead and do that as well! 

 

Yey for finishing my exams, and having holiday!

[lastpawn]

Gathering Storm - this is for the cool down reduction. You point out that I don't have much in the way of Mana Regen, and you're right. However, whe I do have the mana, this ensures that something is off of cool down for me to fire off, instead of having to wait until the Cooldowns are up.

 

Wait... are you saying that Gathering Storm actually works for you?

[Gaz83]

Speaking of which, they need to nerf defenestrating shot.  (Warning: language)

 

That's amazing. 

[swk3000]

Wait... are you saying that Gathering Storm actually works for you?

I'm assuming it does. Since it's only 0.5 second reduction per basic attack, my assumption is that I'm not seeing a noticeable effect because the skill is recharging normally at the same time. Some testing would have to be done to determine whether it's actually working. The thing is, this is the first I've heard that it might not work. Also, I'm not quite sure how I would go about testing this, given that a lot of skills don't actually trigger a cooldown unless you're in battle.

Anyway, I figure I'll post my Mage build as it ended up upon reaching Skyhold. I didn't level up during the In Your Heart Shall Burn quest, so this is the build I ended up with pre-Skyhold.

Storm
---------

Chain Lighting +
Stormbringer
Gathering Storm
Energy Barrage +

Inferno
----------
Immolate +
Flashpoint
Clean Burn

Winter
---------
Winter's Grasp +
Mana Surge
Winter Stillness

I used this to do everything pre-Skyhold, including beating the Fereldan Frostback. For that, I was level 11, and my party (Cassandra, Varric, and Solas, all using builds from the OP) was level 10 (I'd just hit Level 11, so my party was still a little behind). Fight took about 10-15 minutes, and the only person to die was Varric, and that was right at the end, so I left him down and finished the fight. Catch? I'm playing on Normal. I'm pretty sure that people are going to say that invalidates my results, but I got too the Frostback, so the game wouldn't let me save, even near the middle of the area. I even found a Dragonling, killed it, then waited for my party to sheath their weapons, but the game said I was still under attack. If I had been able to save just before the fight, I would have run the fight again on Nightmare to see how the build went.

Also, I added both Winter Stillness and Mana Surge to the build. Winter Stillness is about the only source of Mana Regen, as the OP pointed out. It's not reliable, but it's better than nothing, and I had an extra point. As for Mana Surge, it turns out that it triggers when your Barrier expires, as well, not just when enemies destroy it. That means that after combat, you can have your support Mage cast Barrier on you, then let it expire to trigger this. This means that your first spell in any fight costs no mana, allowing you to open up with, say, two Energy Barrages on the toughest target. That's 1584% Weapon Damage to a single target.

Anyway, I do want to point out that I'm not trying to say the builds in the OP are bad; they're not. They just aren't for everyone. My build isn't pushing out massive amounts of damage, but the damage is reliable, and you have the ability to hit multiple targets with everything except Energy Barrage, which is just about single-target damage. I'm presenting it partly as an alternative, and partly to try to spark some discussion about the Mage class's skills and options pre-Skyhold. If I come across as rude, then I apologize, as that's not my intent.

[Matth85]

I'm assuming it does. Since it's only 0.5 second reduction per basic attack, my assumption is that I'm not seeing a noticeable effect because the skill is recharging normally at the same time. Some testing would have to be done to determine whether it's actually working. The thing is, this is the first I've heard that it might not work. Also, I'm not quite sure how I would go about testing this, given that a lot of skills don't actually trigger a cooldown unless you're in battle.

Anyway, I figure I'll post my Mage build as it ended up upon reaching Skyhold. I didn't level up during the In Your Heart Shall Burn quest, so this is the build I ended up with pre-Skyhold.

Storm
---------

Chain Lighting +
Stormbringer
Gathering Storm
Energy Barrage +

Inferno
----------
Immolate +
Flashpoint
Clean Burn

Winter
---------
Winter's Grasp +
Mana Surge
Winter Stillness

I used this to do everything pre-Skyhold, including beating the Fereldan Frostback. For that, I was level 11, and my party (Cassandra, Varric, and Solas, all using builds from the OP) was level 10 (I'd just hit Level 11, so my party was still a little behind). Fight took about 10-15 minutes, and the only person to die was Varric, and that was right at the end, so I left him down and finished the fight. Catch? I'm playing on Normal. I'm pretty sure that people are going to say that invalidates my results, but I got too the Frostback, so the game wouldn't let me save, even near the middle of the area. I even found a Dragonling, killed it, then waited for my party to sheath their weapons, but the game said I was still under attack. If I had been able to save just before the fight, I would have run the fight again on Nightmare to see how the build went.

Also, I added both Winter Stillness and Mana Surge to the build. Winter Stillness is about the only source of Mana Regen, as the OP pointed out. It's not reliable, but it's better than nothing, and I had an extra point. As for Mana Surge, it turns out that it triggers when your Barrier expires, as well, not just when enemies destroy it. That means that after combat, you can have your support Mage cast Barrier on you, then let it expire to trigger this. This means that your first spell in any fight costs no mana, allowing you to open up with, say, two Energy Barrages on the toughest target. That's 1584% Weapon Damage to a single target.

Anyway, I do want to point out that I'm not trying to say the builds in the OP are bad; they're not. They just aren't for everyone. My build isn't pushing out massive amounts of damage, but the damage is reliable, and you have the ability to hit multiple targets with everything except Energy Barrage, which is just about single-target damage. I'm presenting it partly as an alternative, and partly to try to spark some discussion about the Mage class's skills and options pre-Skyhold. If I come across as rude, then I apologize, as that's not my intent.

Don't worry about it! My builds aren't the be-all builds around. However, they are all tested on nightmare, which is why I post them. A build that works on normal might not work on Nightmare, but a build that works on nightmare works on normal  

They are all tested by me and have gotten me flawlessly through multiple paythrough. My only concern with your build is that you don't get fire mine or Static Cage! Both are very good. Static Cage + upgrade can so some inhuman damage if done right, and Fire mine just hits like a truck.

[Matth85]

New to do list:

Having recorded a mage pre-skyhold playthrough, I figured I'll do one for each build excluding the tank one(given my tank always uses it). That way I can get some videos of how I play with the builds, and that it actually works!

I'll most likely have all the footage done rather quick. How long editing takes is another question altogether. We'll see!

 

Currently doing a DW rogue. Holy **** it's smooth compared to my Mage one. Being able to do 200-400 damage at level 1? Hell yeah! 

I'll test out if some of the bugs were patched as well. I am especially looking at the Deathblow one! 

[SpaceV3gan]

Matth85, do you have tips for levelling up and getting better equipment?
I am currently playing a level 6 Archer, I've just got Cullen's extra potions and luckily I've found a Spike Bow T2 schematic in a chest. Full Draw crits nearing 2k, so I guess I am on the right track.
But still, I feel like I am lightyears away from beating the Fereldan Frostback. All equipment that I can have access to is underwhelming.
I've been considering buying the perk Rogue schematics, I imagine they are at least Tier 2, but they probably get obsolete mid to late game, something which is holding me back. Besides I think there aren't reliable sources of Tier 2 Material before Skyhold. There are the Bears, but they are still somewhat random.

[Matth85]

I am currently playing a level 6 Archer, I've just got Cullen's extra potions and luckily I've found a Spike Bow T2 schematic in a chest. Full Draw crits nearing 2k, so I guess I am on the right track.

 

Between  level 6 and 9 I had a dry strike too. My tip is to keep playing, and get the bow at the astrarium puzzle in Storm Coast. It gives a very solid bow. It's the bow I used for Ferelden Frostback!

 

 

Besides I think there aren't reliable sources of Tier 2 Material before Skyhold. There are the Bears, but they are still somewhat random. 

 

Afaik: Paragon Luster is tier 2 metal in Forbidden Oasis. And bear got Tier 2 leather. Some enemies drop tier 2 cloth, I am unsure which.

So you can get some solid stuff right off the bat!

[Matth85]

Ferelden Frostback for the mages done. Playthrough will be editted after I got a Ferelden Frostback kill for all the dps builds!

DW rogue up next, followed by 2h warrior and ending in Archer rogue!  

 

Edit: Thread updated as well. Giving it some color 'n stuff!

[Anelyn77]

If you don't do it as a dwarf 2h Champion to romance Varric and break up with him later to go after THE BULL, it won't count! (female dwarf allowed, coz maybe you wanna play straight characters!)

[Adeph]

This is a good thread, I'm using these builds for my play through and so far to level 8 it's working great.

[Blackstork]

Hey mate, did you tried Full stealth build?

I want to modify it for solo/semi-solo   (2 man party) Nightmare  - add upgraded flank attack to full stealth tree. Mercy killing, Deep slumber , upgraded SS are must. Full Subtrefuge + Flank attack with Skirmisher. Skirmisher is must have thing quite early. (you better off starting Skirmisher > KP > MK > DS .)

[Matth85]

Not yet. Though on my playthrough now I have gotten increasingly annoyed with the Deathblow bug. It's making the playstyle feel a bit clunky!

I might give it a go for the remaining part(Oasis and mire)!

How was the build again? Something like:

 

2 points - Level  3:  Flank Attack + Upgrade [Double Dagger, Left side]

4 points - Level  8:  Easy to Miss --> Knockout Powder + upgrade --> Mercy Killing [Subterfuge Right side]

2 points - Level 10:  Evasion --> Evade [Subterfuge, Left Side]

2 points  - level 12:  Shadow Strike + upgrade [Subterfuge, Center]

[SpaceV3gan]

Regarding killing the Fereldan Frostback pre-Skyhold on Nightmare...

I am about to go to the Templars/Mage quest, currently at level 10 and a half, which is by far the highest I've ever got to be pre-Skyhold. Normally I arrive at Skyhold at level 9, sometimes a little before hitting 9.
I've farmed a lot of Tier 2 Material and bought many Tier 2 Schematics. My crafted equipment are about level 13.
So I got sick of grinding more levels and decided to face the Fereldan Frostback.
I've tried for about 1 hour, 4 or 5 attempts. The closest I've got to be I took down at least 95% of the Dragon's health, but my whole party ended up dead except for my Archer who had barely no health and zero potions left. I tried 'hit and run' tactics on top of that hill for a few minutes, even took myself a few seconds to relax in between. I was able to land some Long Shots and Full Draw shots, but at the end the Dragon finally landed a fireball on me, so that was it.

I imagine that I will give up fighting it until I advance into the game. It is just too stressful and I waste many attempts. Maybe I've got used to walk over Dragons like they were nothing late game, it doesn't feel right having to struggle against this Dragon this way.

[Matth85]

Check out my video of the Ferelden Frostback! It shows my tactic for defeating it serverlyt undergeared. My longest kill by far: 25 minutes! My shortest was recently, post-patch, at 9 minutes on an archer. That might be because of the purple Tier 2 bow that can be found in the Astrarium puzzle at Storm Coast, hehe!

 

I am working on getting my DW rogue and 2h warrior to this point, so I can get a video of all 4 builds defeating it. I am level 8 on my rogue, using 2 level 1 daggers (That sucks big times!) but got bored. Starting my 2h warrior now. 

 

It's fun, I have mapped out how long it takes me to do everything pre-skyhold! That means I have done this waaay too many times!

 

4 houres Hinterlands

1 hour Storm Coast

45 minutes Oasis

45 minutes Fellow mire

1 hour Hinterland(with dragon kill).

 

Bloody Hinterlands, you are way too big! 

[xaragon]

Check out my video of the Ferelden Frostback! It shows my tactic for defeating it serverlyt undergeared. My longest kill by far: 25 minutes! My shortest was recently, post-patch, at 9 minutes on an archer. That might be because of the purple Tier 2 bow that can be found in the Astrarium puzzle at Storm Coast, hehe!

 

I am working on getting my DW rogue and 2h warrior to this point, so I can get a video of all 4 builds defeating it. I am level 8 on my rogue, using 2 level 1 daggers (That sucks big times!) but got bored. Starting my 2h warrior now. 

 

It's fun, I have mapped out how long it takes me to do everything pre-skyhold! That means I have done this waaay too many times!

 

4 houres Hinterlands

1 hour Storm Coast

45 minutes Oasis

45 minutes Fellow mire

1 hour Hinterland(with dragon kill).

 

Bloody Hinterlands, you are way too big! 

You should try the duo challenge

[Gel214th]

Check out my video of the Ferelden Frostback! It shows my tactic for defeating it serverlyt undergeared. My longest kill by far: 25 minutes! My shortest was recently, post-patch, at 9 minutes on an archer. That might be because of the purple Tier 2 bow that can be found in the Astrarium puzzle at Storm Coast, hehe!

 

I am working on getting my DW rogue and 2h warrior to this point, so I can get a video of all 4 builds defeating it. I am level 8 on my rogue, using 2 level 1 daggers (That sucks big times!) but got bored. Starting my 2h warrior now. 

 

It's fun, I have mapped out how long it takes me to do everything pre-skyhold! That means I have done this waaay too many times!

 

4 houres Hinterlands

1 hour Storm Coast

45 minutes Oasis

45 minutes Fellow mire

1 hour Hinterland(with dragon kill).

 

Bloody Hinterlands, you are way too big! 

 

I'm confused.

 

If you are just doing this for Youtube videos, why don't you just use the trainer to advance your characters, then fight the dragon directly instead of wasting hours of time? You could probably do every combination in a few hours, and upload everything.