That didn't meant I haven't used his builds before, I was answering your questing about seeing the first post in the topic.
I don't know what's causing this disagreement, so I'll just apologize if I had a misunderstanding. I don't want to get into an argument with you.
. I apologize for being a jerk on it as well.
Not your fault I'm irritable.
Okay cool. Basically I agree it's worth putting up an alternate build path for it on the first post.
Probably should go without saying, but if you have Trespasser downloaded, there are toggles for each skill which can have major impact on leveling builds. A couple thoughts come to mind.
SnS: Maybe ignore Vanguard completely and upgrade payback strike for taunt. Just an idea, because you really need warcry AND the upgrade to be better than an upgraded payback strike.
2H warrior: Livid is godly, but so is the new toggle for combat roll. It's a tough call whether to dig into vanguard or battlemaster.
Rogue: Oh heck I don't even know where to start. The poison leech sounds really nice. Leaping shot having a stealth is nice for ranged. Shadow strike being a nice alternative for stamina regen when you have low crit (and don't want to waste a point in caltrop). Lots and lots of options here to change. Too many.
Mage: Again, lots of choices. Easily get a 1000% frost skill right off the bat. That's no 1600%+200%/s firemine, but it only takes 2 points compared to 5 for the latter. Also Mana Surge is a godsend for the group, as it works for everyone. Everyone would get a free skill use and it freezes someone who breaks it. Basically I make sure my support mage picks up mana surge and regenerative barrier (because both work for the whole group now).
Battlemaster is lovely now, horn of valor with the right toggle can safeguard your entire party. I personally am not too fond of livid.
Battlemaster is lovely now, horn of valor with the right toggle can safeguard your entire party. I personally am not too fond of livid.
I'm seeing this now too. I'm thinking the SnS tree should dip down to get Horn of Valor with +guard upgrade and skip all but Warcry in Vanguard. Hell maybe not even warcry. Payback strike taunts and you have grappling chain to get single targets to you.
I'm seeing this now too. I'm thinking the SnS tree should dip down to get Horn of Valor with +guard upgrade and skip all but Warcry in Vanguard. Hell maybe not even warcry. Payback strike taunts and you have grappling chain to get single targets to you.
Felt the same as well. I make all my AI controlled warriors SnS as i find AI to be pretty terrible as 2 handed. I also prefer lunge over charging bull for AI control. Regarding taunts payback strike does the job alright as far as im concerned.
Horn of Valour though is essential as it is one of the best guard generators.
A question, is it worth it to upgrade shield wall and shield bash? As i honestly do not see any value in those skills upgrades/toggles and find them at base just fine.
Felt the same as well. I make all my AI controlled warriors SnS as i find AI to be pretty terrible as 2 handed. I also prefer lunge over charging bull for AI control. Regarding taunts payback strike does the job alright as far as im concerned.
Horn of Valour though is essential as it is one of the best guard generators.
A question, is it worth it to upgrade shield wall and shield bash? As i honestly do not see any value in those skills upgrades/toggles and find them at base just fine.
I have never upgraded shield wall. If you are playing with Walk Softly trial on, then shield bash upgrade is a must. You end up fighting too many promoted enemies with a ridiculous amount of guard.
I have never upgraded shield wall. If you are playing with Walk Softly trial on, then shield bash upgrade is a must. You end up fighting too many promoted enemies with a ridiculous amount of guard.
Guard is not a issue as i tend to play a 2 handed reaver with war horn. Im trying to make AI do 2 handed well but it just flat out sucks at using it, problem being 2 handed tree this time is about control and AI has always sucked at that.
I love the walk softly trials, as for me it adds the thing that was missing from the game, Better quality of enemies.
Guard is not a issue as i tend to play a 2 handed reaver with war horn. Im trying to make AI do 2 handed well but it just flat out sucks at using it, problem being 2 handed tree this time is about control and AI has always sucked at that.
I love the walk softly trials, as for me it adds the thing that was missing from the game, Better quality of enemies.
This is a pre-skyhold thread. Tell me...how did you get Reaver so early?
On top of that, War Horn upgrade is a pretty steep investment. I was running into heavily guarded enemies at level 3. It's trivial for a SnS tank to dip down to Shield Bash upgrade. But if you invest in Battlemaster during pre-skyhold too quickly you lose out on a lot of utility and damage.
Shield Bash upgrade is a cheap easy way to get a solid investment if playing with Walk Softly trials on. That's my opinion.
AH crap forgot it was pre skyhold i just started talking about general warrior stuff. My bad.
AH crap forgot it was pre skyhold i just started talking about general warrior stuff. My bad.
But it does highlight an interesting point. There are some upgrades that are extremely valuable before Skyhold, and just not worth it after. Being able to figure out which is which really can help players transition once they reach Skyhold.
Well no matter pre of post skyhold it is now advisable to run a warrior in the party with horn of valor+fortifying blast.
Have you guys got any more ideas for a pre-skyhold dw rogue? Based on Matth's build, I am trying to go along the following route:
A DW rogue starts off with points in Twin Fangs and Stealth. Both are much needed, so no need to do anything there. 2 points yet again.
Have you guys got any more ideas for a pre-skyhold dw rogue? Based on Matth's build, I am trying to go along the following route:
A DW rogue starts off with points in Twin Fangs and Stealth. Both are much needed, so no need to do anything there. 2 points yet again.
2 points - Level 3: Flank Attack + Skirmisher Upgrade [Double Dagger, Left side]2 points - Level 5: Poison + Leeching Upgrade [Sabotage, Left side]3 points - Level 8: Easy to Miss --> Knockout Powder --> Shadow Strike [Subterfuge, Right side]or3 points - Level 8: Dance of Death --> Sneak Attack --> Deathblow* [Double Daggers, Left side]I am very torn about the final four skills until Level 12. Most likely candidates would be Mercy Killing and Knockout Powder Deep Sleep upgrade for those crits, Twin Fangs upgrade, stealth upgrade (have to experiment if clinging shadows is any good) and shadow strik upgrade.Any ideas?
I really don't see a need to change the DW recommendation given by Matt on page 1. The new toggles aren't that great for DW IMHO (at least low level DW). Starts with Twin Fangs and Stealth.
2 points - Level 3: Flank Attack + Upgrade [Double Dagger, Left side]3 points - Level 6: Dance of Death --> Sneak Attack --> Deathblow* [Double Daggers, Left side]2 points - Level 8: Evasion --> Evade [Subterfuge, Left Side]1 points - level 9: Upgrade Twin Fangs [Dual Daggers, Right side]3 points - level 12: Caltropes --> It looked like it hurts --> Cheap Shot [Sabotage, Right Side]
- I do not like Poison Weapons (even with Leeching upgrades) on Dual Wield characters. When they get hurt, it's generally too slow of a heal to matter and may not even be available. It's great on AI-controlled archers though.
- Shadow Strike's c/d is painful, but until you get Sneak Attack (which I would have been a lot sooner than when shown here) it is the only reasonable source of stamina in a fight.
- Evade is ridiculously important for low level DW rogues. If I were going to pick up Shadow Strike I'd get it via Evade.
- Knockout Powder...not a fan of it really. I prefer detonating combos than setting them up. I let the AI set things up and then I like to knock 'em down.
I really don't see a need to change the DW recommendation given by Matt on page 1. The new toggles aren't that great for DW IMHO (at least low level DW). Starts with Twin Fangs and Stealth.
You'll see above that you have good crit and stamina on kill by level 6. Deathblow is really good now that it doesn't double drain your stamina. If you really want Knockout Powder I'd pick it up instead of Cheap Shot. Or instead of upgrading Twin Fangs.Really starting to wonder if archer wouldn't be better with upgraded Full Draw for the sleep if you really want to setup asleep combos.
Thanks for your thoughts - I would have liked to use the toggles, but I don't have a lot of experience with dw rogues in DAI. I'm at level six now, so that gives me deathblow, and it's good to hear that it's fixed. I may try and squeeze in Poison and Leech after level nine, because I found they did save me a good deal of health potions ...
Thanks for your thoughts - I would have liked to use the toggles, but I don't have a lot of experience with dw rogues in DAI. I'm at level six now, so that gives me deathblow, and it's good to hear that it's fixed. I may try and squeeze in Poison and Leech after level nine, because I found they did save me a good deal of health potions ...
You may want to try to craft something with "heal on kill" because DW rogues are beasts. I just didn't like standing still to pop poisoned weapons. And when I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time (bear rearing up, 2H maul guy smashing me to bits) I don't have the luxury to stand around while leeching poison heals me up.
As for toggles, a lot of my bias comes from playstyle. I like to flank and attack from the rear. I like to stealth. The new toggles allow for an alternative playstyle where they attack from the front or do more damage initially but not later. The Shadow Strike new toggle sounded awesome for archers but the range is poor and the spell animation is really boring. Stealth toggle is great though. I know a lot of people hate the new stealth toggle for abilities like skirmisher, but I believe they work great together. 3 seconds of stealth 50% extra damage is great and the perma stealth from skirmisher upgrade was silly. You could try the new toxic cloud toggle to see if you are hard to see/hit using it.
You may want to try to craft something with "heal on kill" because DW rogues are beasts. I just didn't like standing still to pop poisoned weapons. And when I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time (bear rearing up, 2H maul guy smashing me to bits) I don't have the luxury to stand around while leeching poison heals me up.
You have to admit, though, that leeching poison is great for DW AI controlled rogues (for the most part, anyways).
You have to admit, though, that leeching poison is great for DW AI controlled rogues (for the most part, anyways).
DW ... AI controlled.... does not exist in my game.
All AI rogues go archer or go home. I just don't have time to baby sit them or farm guard on hit. The new horn of valor probably helps but I just...I don't have faith in the AI enough to trust DW ai-controlled rogues with nightmare + trials enabled. I'd have to farm gear for them. Bleh!
Stealth toggle is great though. I know a lot of people hate the new stealth toggle for abilities like skirmisher, but I believe they work great together. 3 seconds of stealth 50% extra damage is great and the perma stealth from skirmisher upgrade was silly. You could try the new toxic cloud toggle to see if you are hard to see/hit using it.
So are you still using the Stealth upgrade for skirmisher? How exactly does is interact with clinging shadow, does it just limit it's duration to "nornal" stealth? Sounds like this is more of a bug fix than breaking the skirmisher upgrade.
So are you still using the Stealth upgrade for skirmisher? How exactly does is interact with clinging shadow, does it just limit it's duration to "nornal" stealth? Sounds like this is more of a bug fix than breaking the skirmisher upgrade.
Flank Attack with Skirmisher gives you a stealth that does not expire. It will disappear when you attack though. But if you end a fight with this attack, you can run around the country side invisible. Comparatively stealth will de-stealth you after 30 seconds or so.
With the new stealth toggle (can't remember the name but the one that lets stealth persist for 3 seconds) now after you use flank attack with skirmisher you stay in stealth only 3 seconds. But during those 3 seconds you can keep attacking and getting the stealth bonuses (whatever they may be). Some say that is game-breaking. Personally I think it's 3 seconds of extra damage you didn't get before.
Or... you can do this...
Rush Skyhold by Level 5.
Epic Victory. Achievement Get. 
And get your Specializations. There's very few quests you need to do before getting to Skyhold (as in, very little that you can't do after). No point farting around before it unless, you like how painful the combat is prior... which, I can't help you if that's the case man.
- Evade is ridiculously important for low level DW rogues. If I were going to pick up Shadow Strike I'd get it via Evade.
This must be obvious, but how do I use evade to the fullest of its potential? Is is just for getting out of harms way when I see a bear stand up on its hind legs or a two-handed warrior about to strike? Do you also use it for positioning? I think I'm not seeing the full picture..
Or... you can do this...
Rush Skyhold by Level 5.
Epic Victory. Achievement Get.
And get your Specializations. There's very few quests you need to do before getting to Skyhold (as in, very little that you can't do after). No point farting around before it unless, you like how painful the combat is prior... which, I can't help you if that's the case man.
Nooo, I'm playing with Take it Slow and seeing how much of the Hinterlands, the Storm Coast, the Fallow Mire and the Forbidden Oasis I can clear before being overleveld for In Your Heart Shall burn. Take it Slow is a completionist's dream.
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