23 réponses à ce sujet

[Quingy]

If Kieran was created to be a vessel for an Old God soul, did he have his own soul as well? So when Flemeth took the Old God soul from him, did that make him soulless? Or was he created to be like what Flemeth apparently is, a human who had an Old God passenger? I'm just unclear on if Flemeth made him normal, or made him into a soulless little boy.

[Red of Rivia]

Says the boy that he feels '' lonely '' after Flemeth take the soul of the old god,but I believe he has his own soul,as Flemeth and Anders.

[Quingy]

Says the boy that he feels '' lonely '' after Flemeth take the soul of the old god,but I believe he has his own soul,as Flemeth and Anders.

The "I feel lonely" line is really all there is to go off of, but couldn't that imply both a soul lacking the interaction with the old God soul, or just... Emptiness?

Now I'm making my head hurt with this lol.

[Kantr]

He has his own soul, but he also had the old god soul too. Which is probably how he can sense magic.

[Red of Rivia]

Well, now he 's just a kid , nothing more about the ' ' age ' ' the Morrigan said,really,very disappointing Bioware.

[Quingy]

So no suspicion over the whole "he was a vessel created through blood magic"? You don't think maybe that made him...a vessel....which was empty, before the old God soul? I honestly don't know either way. I just find the situation suspicious. What if he's being set up to be a villain in future? A soulless, incredibly powerful blood mage, taught rare magic by Morrigan?

[Hex44]

My take:

The kid DID have the old gods soul (Urthemeil). Morrigan DID have a plan and a use for her son.  However, in time she saw him as a boy and started to love him, this love overtook her initial ideas, whatever they were, and she decided to just raise him as a boy.  Flemith took the old gods soul, and one can assume they boy is either soulless now, or he still has his own soul, whichever makes you sleep better because now it doesn't really matter.  He's just a kid now, albeit a kid from the warden and Morrigan but still, just a kid.  Whatever arc that whole "Morrigan is pregnant with a god's soul" was going is now dead.

[Sith Grey Warden]

It all comes down to the ritual itself. Did it conceive a child without a soul, an empty vessel to be filled by Urthemiel? Or did it create a child capable of bearing two souls?

 

I would argue that the latter is more likely. The only animated beings we know of that definitively lack souls are the darkspawn, and Kieran has nothing in common with them to suggest a connection. On the other side, though, we have Flemeth, who already carries at least two souls. She created the ritual by which Kieran was conceived, and would've done so knowing how a body could be made to carry multiple souls. It would make more sense that she put that knowledge to use in creating the ritual than that she had additional knowledge about how to create a soulless vessel.

 

Alternatively, you could say that the soul doesn't inhabit a fetus at conception, and Kieran gained no human soul since the body was filled with one prematurely, but that would require the body to become capable of carrying a soul before it actually gets one. Furthermore, I'd rather not go into that discussion as it leads to one of the most sensitive issues in modern politics.

[Casuist]

No son of Morrigan and Warden/Alistair/Loghain is likely to be "just a kid" - wouldn't be shocked if Kieran continues to have a somewhat interesting destiny. If he were left soulless, I expect Morrigan would have been a lot more broken up about the matter than she ended up being. 

[Aren]

He have is soul and this is disappointing because he is not the reincarnation of the Old god but just a conteiner for him.

The Bioware have choose to take this path i think because Kieran is too Optional, i mean he can be just a normal kid (but eventually he will always become a normal kid), his father can be Loghain/AListair/6 differnt wardens, or his presence can be denied and negated by an Ultimate sacrifice, in the end they have decided to destroy the dark ritual effect completly because is to difficult to implement properly for obvious reasons.

The Beta question is HOW FLEMETH was able to do this absorb a SOUL is incredible, only her and SOLAS have this power. LIKE  SHAO KHAn the soul eater

[Aren]

It all comes down to the ritual itself. Did it conceive a child without a soul, an empty vessel to be filled by Urthemiel? Or did it create a child capable of bearing two souls?

 

I would argue that the latter is more likely. The only animated beings we know of that definitively lack souls are the darkspawn, and Kieran has nothing in common with them to suggest a connection. On the other side, though, we have Flemeth, who already carries at least two souls. She created the ritual by which Kieran was conceived, and would've done so knowing how a body could be made to carry multiple souls. It would make more sense that she put that knowledge to use in creating the ritual than that she had additional knowledge about how to create a soulless vessel.

 

Alternatively, you could say that the soul doesn't inhabit a fetus at conception, and Kieran gained no human soul since the body was filled with one prematurely, but that would require the body to become capable of carrying a soul before it actually gets one. Furthermore, I'd rather not go into that discussion as it leads to one of the most sensitive issues in modern politics.

NO THE DARKSPAWN ARE NOT SOULESS, they have a weak will, they can be Awakened and become disciples with the new joining ritual.

[Frybread76]

Keiran's fate - losing Urthemiel's soul - was the result of too many variables to carry forward into future games.  I doubt we'll see him again since he is either just a normal boy or doesn't exist, depending on past decisions.

[ashwind]

Keiran's fate - losing Urthemiel's soul - was the result of too many variables to carry forward into future games.  I doubt we'll see him again since he is either just a normal boy or doesn't exist, depending on past decisions.

 

^ This. Because Urthemiel's soul may or may not exists. It will not play a huge role in future story. The post credit scene just shows how Bioware is trying to tie up all these variables and move on.

[Samahl na Revas]

Him, Corypheus, etc depending on who drinks from the well hear whispers. I think I'm starting to understand what these whispers are by looking at other times whispers are used in DA universe.

 

Oh, the question at hand, almost forgot. Yes, I think he does have his own soul otherwise he would of died. I like that idea you introduced old god passenger, it seems fitting.

 

 

The same song...

[Quingy]

I did not consider the fact the original ritual was Flemeth's, and since she always intended to take the old God soul from the child, one would hope she allowed for him to also have his own. Although, I cannot honestly say I understand Flemeth's motives. Perhaps leaving a child soulless would not bother her. Who can say?

[Han Shot First]

Kieran was basically something like Flemeth. He has both himself (a human soul) and Urthemiel, just as Flemeth is a combination of the soul of Mythal and the original mage who called out for aid. Morrigan also implies as much in DA:I if you explore all the dialogue options on the OGB.

 

I don't think he's soulless after interacting with Flemeth. He just reverts to being a mundane human, or at least as mundane as any son of a Witch of the Wilds can be.

[Red of Rivia]

We can be discussing and creating several theories, but in the end will not do any good, if him has its own soul or not, does not change the fact that this character is gone, never will have some decent role in a game, as I said here,I do not know why we were given the option... to accept the ritual in the end, it will only be used as fan service, bullshit, they could at least have put a final in which there are no options to survive, put this option to survive through the ritual was the worst thing they did, all come from the Warden from now on just fan service, incidentally, is already fanservice.

[Aren]

^ This. Because Urthemiel's soul may or may not exists. It will not play a huge role in future story. The post credit scene just shows how Bioware is trying to tie up all these variables and move on.

yes, they want to make Morrigan some sort of new icon, maybe the role of her mother? Or maybe her mother is still alive thanks to Yavana's body.........

but yes the illusion of a choice....

We can be discussing and creating several theories, but in the end will not do any good, if him has its own soul or not, does not change the fact that this character is gone, never will have some decent role in a game, as I said here,I do not know why we were given the option... to accept the ritual in the end, it will only be used as fan service, bullshit, they could at least have put a final in which there are no options to survive, put this option to survive through the ritual was the worst thing they did, all come from the Warden from now on just fan service, incidentally, is already fanservice.

And this is way i have always said since the 2009 that the US have some sense  (no variables)  while the DR have none.

The mere possibility of the US in Origins have destroyed every plot- effect of the DR,  even the soul of the Archedemon alone will not be present in future games.

[TheLastArchivist]

What still bugs me is how the hell was Morrigan even able to conceive a child, considering the taint renders a person infertile.

 

She must've used some unkown kind of magic. But if that's the case, couldn't this magic render one immune to the taint at all?

 

And if that's the case, then why have Wardens die after 30 yrs? Why doesn't she and her mother save every Warden by cleansing their blood? Or letting the mages know somehow about this secret magic?

[Taleroth]

Taint does not render on infertile. It just makes it harder. It makes it especially harder the longer they've been tainted, which is probably one of the reasons they wanted a fresh Warden and Riordan didn't qualify.

[blahblahblah]

yes, they want to make Morrigan some sort of new icon, maybe the role of her mother? Or maybe her mother is still alive thanks to Yavana's body.........

but yes the illusion of a choice....

And this is way i have always said since the 2009 that the US have some sense  (no variables)  while the DR have none.

The mere possibility of the US in Origins have destroyed every plot- effect of the DR,  even the soul of the Archedemon alone will not be present in future games.

The US doesn't have any impact either, you are dead but is there any statue dedicated for you? None.

[Quingy]

The US doesn't have any impact either, you are dead but is there any statue dedicated for you? None.

I found myself very disappointed by how little impact The HoF seemed to have on people. Apparently the length of the blight directly affects the length of time the warden defeating it gets remembered.

[Red of Rivia]

I dream of a game that will really change the story and not just an illusion,dragon age keep was the biggest disappointment for me too, all I did turned fan service, even the Hawke citing his companions, not served to nothing in the end all, can say goodbye to the Hawke also the grave of it has already been made. It has a people more hopeful in forum, which think at the end of the Inquisition Solas was where the Warden is(will have DLC or something), but face it ... I believe that it has something to do with the other, so I say , if the Waren could have only one end , should be what he dies soon , since Bioware wants to finally put it and not the other end to give us false hope , if to delete the character of dragon age world , to kill him once.