Part of the problem is that, in order to make everything cinematic, it is written much more like a screenplay relative to the simple text lines written for DAO's Warden.
The actual spoken lines are too long to fit in the allowed screen real estate - and sometimes include gestures or facial expressions.
The very sad thing is that way back when they showed the Crestwood demo with Broquisitor, if you hovered over the paraphrase, the entire line would pop up and you could decide what you wanted to say from the true lines if you wanted to! That, along with so much else obviously got chopped out of the actual game. Unfortunate, all the great stuff that got the axe.
What I didn't like is that many middle-level options are oftentimes needlessly sarcastic or "witty" (riiiight) without this being suggested in the abbreviated description. Guess they felt like the legacy of smart-ass Hawke had to live on.
I don't know why they didn't put icons but I was pretty quick to figure out that the top option is the most diplomatic, the middle is clever (but sometimes just neutral) and the bottom is direct, no nonsense. It seems a lot of people are just going by the paraphrase and then being surprised by the tone.
Agreed. I have never been a dialogue wheel hater. However some of the line summaries in this game suck. I click the option just to have my Inquisitor say something completely different.
It is realllly annoying and immersion breaking.
I don't know why they didn't put icons but I was pretty quick to figure out that the top option is the most diplomatic, the middle is clever (but sometimes just neutral) and the bottom is direct, no nonsense. It seems a lot of people are just going by the paraphrase and then being surprised by the tone.
There are some points though that tone is still surprising.
In Val Royeaux the summary "Let us talk peacefully" when spoken turned into "We came here to talk peacefully, and this is what you do?!" I was not expecting her to yell, I was expecting a question and diplomacy.
I don't mind the abbreviated dialogue, I just want the dialogue to be an accurate reflection of the summary. It doesn't even need to sound like dialogue, but darn it, summarize properly!
sometimes I think this is a great thing
Part of the problem is that, in order to make everything cinematic, it is written much more like a screenplay relative to the simple text lines written for DAO's Warden.
The actual spoken lines are too long to fit in the allowed screen real estate - and sometimes include gestures or facial expressions.
Exactly...for example...anyone who has done the Cassandra Romance plotline...is there any possible way they could make the dialogue abbreviations accurately reflect what you do in the cutscene? I think to Bioware that's part of the surprise. For some people it removes the immersion from them, but for others (like me) I was pleasantly surprised by how the scene played out despite not really having any real options.
Part of the problem is that, in order to make everything cinematic, it is written much more like a screenplay relative to the simple text lines written for DAO's Warden.
The actual spoken lines are too long to fit in the allowed screen real estate - and sometimes include gestures or facial expressions.
If it were in a scrollable text box, it would all fit.
And we should have control over that non-verbal content.
Adding cinematics has added nothing valuable to these games.
I'm with you, OP.
Paraphrasing has improved significantly - I recall only two instances where the spoken lines I got were things I didn't want to say - and the options aren't as extreme anymore so that I feel I have a real choice. However, they're still so different content-wise from the spoken lines that rather often, I can't make an informed decision beyond "This is vaguely appreciative", "This is vaguely clever in a way I can't foresee" etc.. This is bad. I've found you can trust the icons but not the paraphrase, so if there is no icon and the distinction between options lies in the actual content rather than expressed emotion, things often have unexpected outcomes. I feel like an Alzheimer patient, always asking myself if I have forgotten something, not knowing my own mind.
I can work with the system, but I still think the switch to paraphrased dialogue is the worst design decision ever made for roleplaying games played on electronic media since they exist. And if you're discussing complex topics like....say, faith, one of DAI's main themes after all, paraphrasing means I have to second-guess the writers about their intention before I choose an option. This is very bad.
Exactly...for example...anyone who has done the Cassandra Romance plotline...is there any possible way they could make the dialogue abbreviations accurately reflect what you do in the cutscene? I think to Bioware that's part of the surprise. For some people it removes the immersion from them, but for others (like me) I was pleasantly surprised by how the scene played out despite not really having any real options.
Well... that's just it.
Some people seem to enjoy seeing the characters play things out on-screen in much the same way that they enjoy unexpected content in other video entertainment.
For anyone who is seriously trying to role-play the PC - meaning the player knows the character's mind, motives, emotional state, thought processes, etc. - it is extremely frustrating and creates a huge disconnect when the character does something unexpected, something that may even be out-of-character based on the player's concept of who that character is.
Well... that's just it.
Some people seem to enjoy seeing the characters play things out on-screen in much the same way that they enjoy unexpected content in other video entertainment.
For anyone who is seriously trying to role-play the PC - meaning the player knows the character's mind, motives, emotional state, thought processes, etc. - it is extremely frustrating and creates a huge disconnect when the character does something unexpected, something that may even be out-of-character based on the player's concept of who that character is.
It's totally immersion breaking for me. I get really deep into my roleplaying, and when they do something out of character it makes me pull back in frustration.
It's totally immersion breaking for me. I get really deep into my roleplaying, and when they do something out of character it makes me pull back in frustration.
Honestly - I've pretty much given up trying to role-play in Bioware games since DAO. It just isn't possible, at least not for me.
I've only very recently started the ME series after getting a decent deal on the Trilogy. I knew going in that Shepard was going to be Shepard, and had no expectations of being able to role-play the character. I choose something on the wheel, she does whatever she does, sometimes gets some paragon or renegade points, and I move on. In that way, it has been an enjoyable action-adventure romp, an interactive fiction of sorts, but is in no way a role-playing experience for me. From that perspective, I'm starting to understand why people don't want to deal with inventories, stats, etc. - mechanics that have long served as abstractions in role-playing - because what you are ultimately doing is driving a character through some grand adventure, and a lot of the elements that have traditionally been part and parcel of role-playing might not serve this other form of entertainment media.
That said, Shepard is a whole lot more straightforward and easy to understand than Hawke ever was. Shepard has a background, specific roles as an Alliance Officer, CO of the Normandy, Spectre, and clearly defined objectives. Hawke is a civilian going through the motions - anytime I ever tried to define any sort of goals, agenda, or motives for the character, the game (or the character herself) would do something to contradict them - lol.
I wonder if part of the problem is that the Inquisitor exists in some space between being as defined as Shepard and as loosely defined as Hawke? The Inquisitor does have a background and ultimate goal set by the game, but leaves a lot of characteristics, personal motives, etc. open to player definition while the tools provided for the player to express the character are confounding?
I'm bummed that Bioware is no longer making games that I can use as role-playing platforms. There are certainly other developers who are, but none of them have the depth of NPC characterizations, personal relationship building, romance, etc., that Bioware offers up on a silver platter.
In any case, I hope you can find a way to ease the frustration and enjoy the game. 
For anyone who is seriously trying to role-play the PC - meaning the player knows the character's mind, motives, emotional state, thought processes, etc. - it is extremely frustrating and creates a huge disconnect when the character does something unexpected, something that may even be out-of-character based on the player's concept of who that character is.
Oh yes -that was really annoying if you had concept for your character. Sometimes it seemed as if Bioware had this need to take our character away from us because "they know better how Inquisitor should behave".
Honestly - I've pretty much given up trying to role-play in Bioware games since DAO. It just isn't possible, at least not for me.
I've only very recently started the ME series after getting a decent deal on the Trilogy. I knew going in that Shepard was going to be Shepard, and had no expectations of being able to role-play the character. I choose something on the wheel, she does whatever she does, sometimes gets some paragon or renegade points, and I move on. In that way, it has been an enjoyable action-adventure romp, an interactive fiction of sorts, but is in no way a role-playing experience for me. From that perspective, I'm starting to understand why people don't want to deal with inventories, stats, etc. - mechanics that have long served as abstractions in role-playing - because what you are ultimately doing is driving a character through some grand adventure, and a lot of the elements that have traditionally been part and parcel of role-playing might not serve this other form of entertainment media.
That said, Shepard is a whole lot more straightforward and easy to understand than Hawke ever was. Shepard has a background, specific roles as an Alliance Officer, CO of the Normandy, Spectre, and clearly defined objectives. Hawke is a civilian going through the motions - anytime I ever tried to define any sort of goals, agenda, or motives for the character, the game (or the character herself) would do something to contradict them - lol.
I wonder if part of the problem is that the Inquisitor exists in some space between being as defined as Shepard and as loosely defined as Hawke? The Inquisitor does have a background and ultimate goal set by the game, but leaves a lot of characteristics, personal motives, etc. open to player definition while the tools provided for the player to express the character are confounding?
I'm bummed that Bioware is no longer making games that I can use as role-playing platforms. There are certainly other developers who are, but none of them have the depth of NPC characterizations, personal relationship building, romance, etc., that Bioware offers up on a silver platter.
In any case, I hope you can find a way to ease the frustration and enjoy the game.
Other than a few moments where I stared blankly at the screen and reloaded a save, I found I was pretty well able to roleplay my Inquisitor Eavan, but there were definitely some moments where I had to re-envision her motives or personality.
For the most part they're alright but there's the occasional and annoying f up. Like in a conversation with Cole where the option read "This is disconcerting.". The situation was disconcerting and quite serious, so I thought it would be a genuine comment about that. Instead my character starts joking about dying people.
Quite the WTF moment.
Other than a few moments where I stared blankly at the screen and reloaded a save, I found I was pretty well able to roleplay Eavan, but there were definitely some moments where I had to re-envision her motives or personality.
Changing the character to fit what the game gives you seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of current game design. I tried that several times for Hawke, but eventually gave up and blamed her erratic behavior on Varric embellishing the story he told.
Anyway - I'm glad you've found a way to make it work for you.
Changing the character to fit what the game gives you seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of current game design. I tried that several times for Hawke, but eventually gave up and blamed her erratic behavior on Varric embellishing the story he told.
Anyway - I'm glad you've found a way to make it work for you.
Oh dear god, DA2 was awful. Felicity Hawke was... a pretty awful person and I am bloody happy to
How bad is a game when I don't think my own damn character had any redeemable qualities?
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