127 réponses à ce sujet

[Realyn]

I found Tempest pretty boring.

 

I felt the same. While yes, the damage it can do even without exploiting the focus bug is amazing, I felt like an addict from constantly spamming flask over and over and over again. As an assassin I actually feel like a rogue. As tempest I feel like an alcoholic alchemist, wielding kitchen knives.

 

Having 3 flasks on my already extremely limited 8-slot ability bar was a real downer for me. Tempest would've been a lot more fun without the limited amount of abilties you can slot (bigger action bar please!). It's not like you can use 'm all due to limited stamina, but at least you'd have options instead of being a one-trick pony. Which is what it felt like to me. Others may ofcourse disagree, but that's how I felt while playing as Tempest.

[Blackstork]

See, Selea,

people just said that you are clueless and that i telling truth , while you tried to make laugh from my words.

You have some more clueless arguments in your pocket you want to share?

 

@Khevar

7 are always on the board:

Stealth

Knock Powder

Shadow Strike

Fire 

Frost

Lightning

Thousand Cuts (with ring, obcourse)

8th is about preference

I swap and change builds sometimes to fit particular encounter if really needed. There 3 options

1. Evade

2. TF

3. PW

 

the benefits of each obbious. I start game with Evade. then take TF if i feel i do not need serious evasion and kiting on plot/run so TF could be used. TF is detonator. Once you can deal with surviliability and get tempest stuff - you better get TF, in many cases Evade will be overkill if you respec to full tempest in skyhold. It , as i said  , depends on encounter / plot line and enemy you fight, and your party composition. PW is great with FoL. It bets on FoL instead of frostie. If you have for example Sera in party, perhaps she should detonate your frosties with Fire LS spam, and you just save slot to enchance your FoL time. 

 

Btw i really advice trying DW Tempest with Archer Tempest.

One freezes, Sera detonates each single one! Need some micromanaging, but results are terrible, for foes, big time

 

@lastpawn

5 sec base and +3 sec from Ride passive as being not first flask in the chain.

I often start with fire actually. Stunlock pesky foe, freeze rest, and thn do auto-attack lighting fest

[SpaceV3gan]

I found Tempest pretty boring.

The Tempest top tier ability is basically a window of auto-attacking. Though I love Flask of Lightning, it can be arguably boring, I don't deny it. If you do not get regular weapon upgrades it feels even worse.
Nevertheless, it works wonders as far as damage output is concerned.
I only wish the Artificier were part of this comparison. It looks like the coolest of the 3, but also the weakest.
 

[lastpawn]

@lastpawn

5 sec base and +3 sec from Ride passive as being not first flask in the chain.

I often start with fire actually. Stunlock pesky foe, freeze rest, and thn do auto-attack lighting fest

 

That's the length of the flask effect, but what I'm wondering about is, how long do the enemies stay frozen? Tooltip says 1 second, which seems like not enough time to pull of detonations.

[Blackstork]

No, as long as you stand near them they are frozen till flask expires + 1 second. If you leave their vicinity, they un-freeze.

But that does not stop you and your party members detonating poor dudes in repetitive fashion sevral times.

 

And regarding FoL - As i said, because of 3 sec of "he is not awaken yet" upgrade of KP and Mercy Killing, this means you can grant yourself full crit FoL autoattack time all the time you FoL by either opening with KP your FoL or place KP bit early and detonate for Nightmare by other party member and target will be panicked. This also affect mini-bosses elites, and some bosses who are not immune to panic. Jar of Bees time means you going to crit it by default, without any special effort, stealthing tricking, You just come and hit it with 100% time full crits in the face. 

I've put atttention that if you too much damage with chained abilties btw panic status ends prematurely bit earlier. thats why my Cole have both KP and KB on the bar.

[Selea]

Flask of Lightning + auto attack is the most absurd and ridiculous damage spike there is, even more than Flask of Fire + Focus glitch. I won't even comment what is having both in one character.
 

 

It is a DPS spike (and not even so good in the majority of the occasions since relying mostly on normal attacks) only on Sera (or a not controlled PC), elsewhere FoL DOESN'T increase DPS at all.

As for criticals on normal attacks, again, they are a total waste. We are talking about nightmare here, not normal difficulty.

 

Using Longbow of the Griffon, I took the Hissing Wastes Dragon down in one cast of Flask of Lightning, and most other Dragons in 3 casts. Playing on Nightmare. You guys can try it yourselves.
There is no way an Assassin or any other specialization can out damage a Tempest. They could be somewhat more appealing, but not out damage.

 

 

Yes, yes, we all know about Longbow of Griffon against Dragons on Sera. The fact is: that strategy is really as powerful as it is only on a non controlled char and with a very large enemy (as a Dragon), it is NOT a strategy that works in a reliable way.

People seem to have a problem understanding what's RELIABLE damage and what's POTENTIAL damage. Two completely different things. The former works in every situation, the latter doesn't.

[Blackstork]

You have problem with understanding tempest mechanics and how it synergies with team work and status effects. And you have problem understanding that Tempest covers his gap in dps while assasin on CDs. Tempest is about bring ticking full time, critting and detonating (or provide detonations) full time . Its about CC and its invaluable in many places on NM. Your Assasin burst once and then your are pretty worthless ( for little example with 2h guarded enemies who do aoe damage) as assasin till next burst dps wise and you will probably finish being dead with most encounters where CC comes on you or you aggroed by mage or high mobility stuff like Despair Demon or Greater Terror (which is not your current target). Tempest generate combos, burst dps and much more durable. You have not clue, and the most funny things you are still argueing, when alot of people just said that you understimate auto-crit auto-attack with FoL. You just making youself more dumber than you already made yourself/are.

[Selea]

 

See, Selea,

people just said that you are clueless and that i telling truth , while you tried to make laugh from my words.

You have some more clueless arguments in your pocket you want to share?

See, Selea,

people just said that you are clueless and that i telling truth , while you tried to make laugh from my words.

You have some more clueless arguments in your pocket you want to share?

 

Apart that nobody is backing what you said up (there's nobody that's talking about how outstanding KP is on a Tempest build) and that the only person that said Tempest is more powerful than Assassin is just talking of a situational occurrence with a non controlled party member - even if it was as you said it would have just meant that they are wrong as you are.

Even Hitler had a lot of backup in his lifetime and yet that didn't made what he said even a shred more relevant than it was.

Sorry but for now all you have said I've proven wrong with facts and I have not seen you provide even a single evidence that what you say has some merit. Actually half of your arguments are purely theorycrafting with no way of working whatsoever in practical play (for example nobody uses all three flasks on a DW Tempest build since everyone and their dog knows that doing so leaves you with no burst damage skill whatsoever outside of FoF).

[Selea]

You have problem with understanding tempest mechanics and how it synergies with team work and status effects. And you have problem understanding that Tempest covers his gap in dps while assasin on CDs. You burst once and then your are pretty worthless as assasin till next burst dps wise. Tempest generate combos, burst dps and much more durable. You have not clue, and the most funny things you arestill argueing, when alot of people just said that you understimate auto-crit auto-attack with FoL. You just making youself more dumber than you already made yourself/are.

 

I have no problems at all. Differently from you I can understand perfectly the difference on potential damage done and average damage done, and the difference between theorycrafting and practice.

There's nothing of what you have said that works reliably in practice, nor it does the astounding things you say it does in a reliable way. It is all situational, picking only the occurrences you like to point out and discarding all the rest. Sadly for you this is not the way to calculate DPS of a class as it matters nothing if you can do x5 more DPS with build A than build B in a situation that happens only 1 time out of 10 in gameplay when in the other 9 cases the damage done is x2 less. In average the damage done by the build B will be more than build A no matter the specific damage potential in certain situations.

[Anelyn77]

I don't know, tempest is strong sure, but as archery Assassin I have no problem doing huge damage on my own. Mark + Leaping Shot point blank from stealth on a dragon will most likely proc several HB, and you can instantly follow up with your own HB into a Full Draw, all this before mark triggers. That's a ton of damage with huge critical damage on 95% armor ignored target. Add Mark of Rift if you want more damage or Cloak for full criticals on everything.

 

Am not saying one is better than the other, and you can't either compare them out of context, but am positive of one thing: Assassin will always hit harder, it's easiest class to get close to 100% armor pen, guaranteed criticals and huge critical damage.

 

And let's not forget that MoD is Assassin's damage, despite it collects damage from all sources. The more damage someone else does to marked target, the more damage the Assassin will do when he / she triggers the mark or when it expires. So if you double focus Thousand Cuts, that will boost my Assassin mark damage which will end up doing more than what you did in a way hehe

[Blackstork]

@Selea

Reading your posts i have real conclusion that you are clueless and very stubborn. We will finish it here. You just do not understand/realize/gave ego/whaterver crap you have and you make yourself dumb.

 

I wont make some maths and play for you if you are not able too. Proofs? You want me to post pictures, doing maths and make videos? You go and check and try it propely. Play tempest. Learn. Proofs are other people who say that you are wrong.

I wont teach you about what is shatter damage, and what is aoe nightmare damage, and what happens if they are being chained non-stop.

I wont teach you to use Mercy Killing that you not only crit from stealth but crit ALL the time with proper action.

I wont make you undesrtand that CC = more damage in many cases because, actually of ability to apply it, compared by "Potential" damage which you have but can not apply or apply and die as assasin.

I wont make precise calculations to showcase how much damage FoL autotattacks with auto-crit do. They do alot, you understimate it, to very least. With simple random gear, i wont even mention +crit damage hoarding gear builds.

I wont explain that being able to restealth frequently during boss/elites fight without killing anyone is better, being able to tank , pull aggro and freeze targets is better , and being able to flank and evade even swinging 2h toughtie is better - they are better because you are unhindered to apply the damage.

I wont explain that you do not do damage when assasin 100% of time. You flank, wait for cd, AA and what not between your bursts. Tempest % working time is much more , and he does soemthing/dps when Assasin does not. He offers sustained CC/dps/detonations , and he do something beyond flanking or autoattacking when Assasin scratch balls with all abilties on CD.

I wont make pics for my party chainging shatterings/nightmares/ruptures, keeping CCs on enemy and my main tempest do almost all time crits with boosted crit damage and dex hoard.

I wont explain to one like you (seems pointless) that making someone suddenly able to do insane damage is equal to dealing that damage in team play. In solo you wont just survive NM solo as DW assasin without CC.

I wont explain that taking such course of conversation you took is just making poo of your credibility.

You will need to figure those things yourself.

 

I remind that i didnt said that Tempest > Assasin. I said that they are equal but different. And i wont point on that, as well. 

I do point on one thing - you are really dumb, Selea, and your posts are serious proof for that.

[prosthetic soul]

Is Artificer worth it at all if I'm rolling an archer?  Tempest is too boring and Assassins is so passe. 

[Blackstork]

Is Artificer worth it at all if I'm rolling an archer?  Tempest is too boring and Assassins is so passe. 

If you like the style yes, at least for Archer Arty have decent pay-offs. You pair with Sera or Cole for more efficiency, you will really benefit from having them in your party.  I say even Sera bit more, since you will need to micromanage her less, and he will do her work well if you will provide CC and effects you both will enjoy and have crits. Any sleeping or panicking target and Sera having her machine gun mode  = almost 0 cd for all abilities for you, so when she FoL with Mercy Killing, you should have almost no CD on yer stuff.

[Matth85]

Is Artificer worth it at all if I'm rolling an archer?  Tempest is too boring and Assassins is so passe. 

Totally worth it. As I see it:

 

With high enough crit, you got enough CD reduction to have a passive Flask of Fire on you. Sort of. That means your dps is on par with tempest.

The only thing you don't get from Assassin is Mark of Death -- which is why you bring Cole.

The passives stack, so you can have Varric with you and get 5% more crit and 10% more damage. Yay for passives!

[Blackstork]

Totally worth it. As I see it:

 

With high enough crit, you got enough CD reduction to have a passive Flask of Fire on you. Sort of. That means your dps is on par with tempest.

The only thing you don't get from Assassin is Mark of Death -- which is why you bring Cole.

The passives stack, so you can have Varric with you and get 5% more crit and 10% more damage. Yay for passives!

i'd say Sera is much better pick. 1341414 crits per second in machine gun mode (yes, i exagerating, slightly).

Btw you will need 10 stamina on crit  passive in order to keep ability to use your short-cd abilties.

[Matth85]

10 stamina on crit is given. The synergy between 10 stamina on crit and 0.5 cd on crit is pretty solid. Add the 50 stamina on kill, and you are a machine gun.

[Blackstork]

10 stamina on crit is given. The synergy between 10 stamina on crit and 0.5 cd on crit is pretty solid. Add the 50 stamina on kill, and you are a machine gun.

Is it enough stamina fro your use while running with both Cole and Sera? Did you tried 3 rogue party with Mercy Killing ? I am yet to try 3 rogue  + Solas or 3 rogue + Cassandra party. Cassy have eldritch detonator which is dispell, 1 dw tempest (sera in your case), 2 ranged rogues.

So far it means fight with massive crits for everyone, spam abiltities, crit, detonate, trigger MoD, win.

I simply dislike Varric (as much as i like ginger dusters, Luka, Sigrun and others alike). (also because i dislike Hawke (he is very awkward hero, which actually linked to load of bad things happened in Thedas) and i always certainly pick Alistair/Loghain over him)

So i didnt tried it yet and his crappy weapon had chance to work only at game's start in all my games. 

[Season]

I don't know, tempest is strong sure, but as archery Assassin I have no problem doing huge damage on my own. Mark + Leaping Shot point blank from stealth on a dragon will most likely proc several HB, and you can instantly follow up with your own HB into a Full Draw, all this before mark triggers. That's a ton of damage with huge critical damage on 95% armor ignored target. Add Mark of Rift if you want more damage or Cloak for full criticals on everything.

 

Am not saying one is better than the other, and you can't either compare them out of context, but am positive of one thing: Assassin will always hit harder, it's easiest class to get close to 100% armor pen, guaranteed criticals and huge critical damage.

 

And let's not forget that MoD is Assassin's damage, despite it collects damage from all sources. The more damage someone else does to marked target, the more damage the Assassin will do when he / she triggers the mark or when it expires. So if you double focus Thousand Cuts, that will boost my Assassin mark damage which will end up doing more than what you did in a way hehe

 

That just sounds amazing. I'd take that over slow-mo FoL anyday (which is too bad because I would've preferred machine gun FoL). 

[FoamingForias]

Totally worth it. As I see it:

 

With high enough crit, you got enough CD reduction to have a passive Flask of Fire on you. Sort of. That means your dps is on par with tempest.

The only thing you don't get from Assassin is Mark of Death -- which is why you bring Cole.

The passives stack, so you can have Varric with you and get 5% more crit and 10% more damage. Yay for passives!

 

Is the critical stack with Varric confirmed? That's awesome news. I didn't think it would be.

 

The 10% damage is only on "status effects" according to description, so I assume it only works on poison weapons and things like Dorian's walking omb/spirit mark. Is that right?

 

On another note, does anyone know how much micromanagement Cole requires as an archer assassin. Will he cloak and fire off abilities fairly regularly?

[Mr.House]

Calling it cheese is an understatement. IMO obvious exploits and game bugs should not be considered a factor. People who use flask of fire + TC exploit are no different from people using the console command to enable god-mode. This is a game-breaking bug which makes the game trivial even if playing solo NM.
 

Not really, until Bioware fixes it, it's still a viable thing to do, just because it's cheese really changes nothing. It's in the game that anyone can access without cheating or anything.

[szemyq]

Is it enough stamina fro your use while running with both Cole and Sera? Did you tried 3 rogue party with Mercy Killing ? I am yet to try 3 rogue + Solas or 3 rogue + Cassandra party. Cassy have eldritch detonator which is dispell, 1 dw tempest (sera in your case), 2 ranged rogues.
So far it means fight with massive crits for everyone, spam abiltities, crit, detonate, trigger MoD, win.
I simply dislike Varric (as much as i like ginger dusters, Luka, Sigrun and others alike). (also because i dislike Hawke (he is very awkward hero, which actually linked to load of bad things happened in Thedas) and i always certainly pick Alistair/Loghain over him)
So i didnt tried it yet and his crappy weapon had chance to work only at game's start in all my games.

I am currently running a lvl 15 triple rogue/riftmage setup in EdL. It kicks ass, but i will go for a rogue only setup when i am at home. 2 dw tempest, dw assassin and archer artificer. All 4 with deep sleep and merciless killing. Synergies are insane. Things did melt with the rift mage but if i replace him with an artificier it will be godlike.

Edit: this is on nightmare ff. And i should mention that this is how i wanted this game to be. High risk/high reward. Tactical combat for infinite fun.

[Blackstork]

I am currently running a lvl 15 triple rogue/riftmage setup in EdL. It kicks ass, but i will go for a rogue only setup when i am at home. 2 dw tempest, dw assassin and archer artificer. All 4 with deep sleep and merciless killing. Synergies are insane. Things did melt with the rift mage but if i replace him with an artificier it will be godlike.

Edit: this is on nightmare ff. And i should mention that this is how i wanted this game to be. High risk/high reward. Tactical combat for infinite fun.

you are my bro then. I feel the same. hi5

Here is one person who can second my excitement because he experienced it. 

You do not need 4 rogues. May be its good but its overkill. Its even too much risk vs reward with emphasis on "hi risk". 3 is enough. Rift mage is insanely powerful synergy. Combo fest. Do not understimate abilties of rift mage to save asses. sure, such insane damage is best defence , but CCs, combos ,weaknesses and barriers and revives. They are too good to pass.

 

ah, and i bolded some important part in your post for some clueless posters here.

Cheers

[Khevar]

You do not need 4 rogues. May be its good but its overkill. Its even too much risk vs reward with emphasis on "hi risk". 3 is enough. Rift mage is insanely powerful synergy.

 

Plus, with 3 rogues + Rift mage, you can not only open locks, but energize and bash doors (stonefist) with the Rift mage.

 

I really enjoyed combat with 4 rogues, but it was frustrating to miss out on exploration options.

[actionhero112]

https://www.youtube....h?v=EeOsVLOULg8

 

I feel like every discussion about assassin's needs this video. It's insane how fast Xarius solos this dragon without resorting to a glitch. 

[szemyq]

you are my bro then. I feel the same. hi5

Here is one person who can second my excitement because he experienced it. 
You do not need 4 rogues. May be its good but its overkill. Its even too much risk vs reward with emphasis on "hi risk". 3 is enough. Rift mage is insanely powerful synergy. Combo fest. Do not understimate abilties of rift mage to save asses. sure, such insane damage is best defence , but CCs, combos ,weaknesses and barriers and revives. They are too good to pass.
 
ah, and i bolded some important part in your post for some clueless posters here.
Cheers

I just found that the rift mage is not necessary and more often than not i just dont know what to do with him. Dispel is maybe the spell i would miss the most. I dont need the weakness, and while static cage is a very good spell in this setup, i can imagine an artificier synergizes even better. The rogues dont die and IF i cast a barrier out of pure boredom it just fades out. A 4th rogue to stealth in to set up those KP, a 4th KP, a longshot machine to shatter those FoF proccs seems to be more valuable. FoF, FoL, 3 guard on hit, 3 sec walking fortress on hit, tons of CC and these mindblowing amounts of damage are all i need to survive. But i havent tried it yet and will report back if it fails.