52 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

She was in a meditative state for a year, in seclusion. She knew that going in. She just didn't know that she would also be made Tranquil at the same time.

 

So from her perspective, she zoned out through prayer and meditation and managed to avoid going insane, and then once she emerged from her isolation she felt renewed and gained the powers of a Seeker.

... if so, it might be that this same mindset would prevent a mage from going insane when they get cured. Though actually knowing that they're Tranquil while they're Tranquil would interfere.

[Br3admax]

... if so, it might be that this same mindset would prevent a mage from going insane when they get cured. Though actually knowing that they're Tranquil while they're Tranquil would interfere.

I doubt the Seekers haven't tried in over a thousand years. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I doubt the Seekers haven't tried in over a thousand years. 

Fair point.

[The Baconer]

Maybe the rite is different when used on non-magic users? Cassandra isn't a mage, so I would presume that the Tranquil Rite would affect her link to the fade differently than a full fledged mage. Plus they're made tranquil for a month or so while mages are severed from the fade for a very long period of time, plus they need to be touched by a specific type of spirit? There are no mage seekers because they come from Templars and  I don't think there are any mage Templars so tranquility HAS to affect them differently than on a mage.

 

From what I understand, they need to free themselves of emotions before the rite and then they are touched. Mage Tranquil people were stuffed solid full of emotions before they were made tranquil so maybe that's where the difference lays? The Harrowing is all about being seduced / tempted by the demons, who are named after emotions. Severing their link to the fade is "saving" them from emotional temptation that attracts the demons, correct? Reconnecting them to the fade. to emotions that are magically charged would probably overwhelm them.

 

What is magic in Thedas anyways? It's all related to emotions.

 

Templars have to do a year long vigil before they are initiated and Seekers are pulled from the Templar ranks and then go through another rite of vigilism and it's all very hush even when explained. We'd have to know more on what they do to Templars and Seekers during the Vigils and the Tranquility Rite they go through.

 

The current info that we have does not add up. The only two individuals we know who were rendered immune to possession in a similar fashion were both permanently merged with Fade entities. Coincidentally, they also received new powers. Pharamond was cured of his Tranquility by being possessed, and in this case the entity was removed from his body. He did not appear to gain any new abilities through this experience, and apparently he was even more vulnerable to possession in the aftermath. Again, apparently. The only case we've seen firsthand of a Tranquil being touched by a spirit was Karl, and even then arguments can be made as to whether he was "touched" by it, or rather, was "bathed" in its energy which made his recovery temporary. 

 

At this point I'd guess that the Seekers went beyond just "touching" spirits in their vigil. Either that or the Rite of Tranquility that they use differs from the one we are familiar with. We'd obviously know more if they hadn't held this area of knowledge back for centuries.

[azarhal]

Cassandra isn't a mage, so I would presume that the Tranquil Rite would affect her link to the fade differently than a full fledged mage. 

 

According to some Cass/Sera banter, Cassandra started to train to become a Seeker at age 6*, that's before most people discover they are mages (World of Thedas says it usually happen at puberty). Considering that Cassandra's uncle is a mage, she could have been gifted too, just never realized that potential before going through the Seeker's rituals.

 

Who knows, maybe only mage who haven't taped their potentials can become Seekers. That would explain their very low numbers and the failure rate of the Seeker Vigil.

 

* that banter is kind of contradicted by an exchange you can have with her where she says that she was older than the order recruits and was only allowed to join because of her "noble birth". I doubt that Templar Elites are identified at age 4...

[Kevs]

I'm thinking that the mental preparation (aka the Vigil) leading up to the Seeker's ritual (aka Tranquility) is what helps them stay emotionally stable after they are cured. Being Tranquilized unwillingly is probably akin to bottling up all your emotions until it all just gushes out the moment you're cured.

 

On another note, I'm curious about Wynne, since she was touched by a Spirit of Faith and all. Even though she was never made Tranquil, I wonder if the spirit being with her protects her from demonic possession. I guess we'll never know since she is canon dead - Cole references Rhys' mother dying while saving a templar.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

On another note, I'm curious about Wynne, since she was touched by a Spirit of Faith and all. Even though she was never made Tranquil, I wonder if the spirit being with her protects her from demonic possession. I guess we'll never know since she is canon dead - Cole references Rhys' mother dying while saving a templar.

She certainly seems to believe so, judging by her dialogue if you have her converse with Connor's demon before blasting it to hell. (Exact words to the best of my memory: "You cannot have me, spirit. I already have a... passenger.)

[errantknight]

They used the rite for a reason. In a perfect world, it was used only when a mage was incapable of resisting demonic possession and was likely considered more humane than killing them. That's debatable, of course, and it's not a perfect world, but they weren't necessarily evil for thinking tranquility was a good idea. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

They used the rite for a reason. In a perfect world, it was used only when a mage was incapable of resisting demonic possession and was likely considered more humane than killing them. That's debatable, of course, and it's not a perfect world, but they weren't necessarily evil for thinking tranquility was a good idea. 

How does that apply to the idea that there's a ritual involving Tranquility and the curing thereof that handles possession?

[Br3admax]

* that banter is kind of contradicted by an exchange you can have with her where she says that she was older than the order recruits and was only allowed to join because of her "noble birth". I doubt that Templar Elites are identified at age 4...

It's not really contradictory. Theoretically one could begin being taught to accept Seeker life fairly young. 

[azarhal]

It's not really contradictory. Theoretically one could begin being taught to accept Seeker life fairly young. 

 

For both dialogues line to work together along with the previous lore on the Seekers membership, Templar Elites needs to be, in a majority, 5 years old or under...

[errantknight]

How does that apply to the idea that there's a ritual involving Tranquility and the curing thereof that handles possession?

It doesn't. It applies to the idea that the lord seekers were evil. If you like, I can expand to include other aspects of the conversation and whether that is evil also, but I'm as work. How does questioning the validity of other people's comments further the conversation, Pot? Ah well, nm. I don't have to converse here, after all.

[Br3admax]

For both dialogues line to work together along with the previous lore on the Seekers membership, Templar Elites needs to be, in a majority, 5 years old or under...

They don't always recruit from Templar elites. Problem solved. Considering in DA:I it makes it clear that Templar can't join the Seekers until they quit taking lyrium, it's not really that much of a stretch. We also knew next to nothing about the Seekers before. Most people actually just thought they were Templars. In Thedas they still do. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It doesn't. It applies to the idea that the lord seekers were evil. If you like, I can expand to include other aspects of the conversation and whether that is evil also, but I'm as work. How does questioning the validity of other people's comments further the conversation, Pot? Ah well, nm. I don't have to converse here, after all.

The problem is that the justification you gave for how the Seekers aren't evil falls apart in the context of the thing I mentioned, which I first heard of in the opening post of this thread and which therefore you either saw or ought to have seen. I would have agreed with your argument before I read this thread, but your central premise either no longer applies or is an oversimplification (we don't know which) with the addition of the information OP gave us. Therefore you really are going to have to expand your argument if you want it to be of any use here.

[errantknight]

Holy crap. I'll be taking my useless self off to another thread, oh great arbiter of worth.

[Renmiri1]

Well Cassandra did say that reversing tranquility isn't as easy as it sounds. The effect could leave the user in an unpredictable and more dangerous state than before.

Ya in Asunder that mage got crazy!

 

I decided to let Cassandra end the seekers. They sounded way too morally compromised for my taste. But damn those uniforms are cool!

[Renmiri1]

Holy crap. I'll be taking my useless self off to another thread, oh great arbiter of worth.

If you didn't know about the ritual of tranquility then you are not really adding anything to this.. sorry but I used to love the Seekers too, until I learned about their ritual.

[Br3admax]

Their ritual is no reason to get rid of the Seekers. The only reason is that they failed in their objective and became corrupt. If you think getting rid of them because of Tranquility is valid, well you're wasting your time. The Templars form a mirror group called the Silver Shield anyway. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Holy crap. I'll be taking my useless self off to another thread, oh great arbiter of worth.

I'm not telling you to do that, I'm telling you that I'm not sure this argument still works without adding extra detail to account for the extra stuff we now know that seems to belie this argument. I'm not telling you this argument needs to be scrapped, I'm telling you that it needs to be at least adjusted.

[TK514]

Ya in Asunder that mage got crazy!

 

I decided to let Cassandra end the seekers. They sounded way too morally compromised for my taste. But damn those uniforms are cool!

 

What Seekers?  It's possible that there's only one left by the end of the game, and she can hardly be called morally compromised.

[errantknight]

If you didn't know about the ritual of tranquility then you are not really adding anything to this.. sorry but I used to love the Seekers too, until I learned about their ritual.

I do know about the right of tranquility. OMG, it was a casual aside. I had no Idea this part of the forum was policed so harshly in terms of whether one was adding sufficiently. Like I said, don't worry about it, I'm getting the hell out of the damn thread.

[Pierce Miller]

Of course they're evil, Anyone in cahoots with the chantry is pretty much a mustache twirling villain.

[The Baconer]

What Seekers?  It's possible that there's only one left by the end of the game, and she can hardly be called morally compromised.

 

I'll consider reforming them when Cassandra can give me a straight answer as to how she plans to do so.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I do know about the right of tranquility. OMG, it was a casual aside. I had no Idea this part of the forum was policed so harshly in terms of whether one was adding sufficiently. Like I said, don't worry about it, I'm getting the hell out of the damn thread.

Again: not really what I was asking you to do.

[Br3admax]

I'll consider reforming them when Cassandra can give me a straight answer as to how she plans to do so.

Except she did. Like where you ask, "How would you reform the Seekers," I'm not sure what you expected from her.