145 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

Did you even play ye olde RPGs ''back then''? Both Baldur's Gate games were riddled with bugs (so much fans put up a tool to circumvent them), so were both Fallouts as well as Planescape:Torment. Even today with fan patches these games aren't bug free. But I'm sure it all started when they sold out to EA, right? It can't be that bugs are a reality of developping complex games like RPGs, surely.

 

Hell, BG2 even had an exclusive pre-order bonus, and it's expansion was a poorly balanced mess with less than a third of the main game's content at half the price. Those were the days indeed. Sometimes I wonder if some people with rose-tinted glasses were even present during the times they glorify.

 

Don't you know, RPG's were perfected in video games in the year 2000. Everything else has been downhill from there. 

 

Of course, that kind of attitude gets in the way of actual analysis. People need to realize that games from the past had the same problems as games in the present, the difference is you now have the internet to track these things and a narrative that is being told to you by opinion leaders. 

[Farangbaa]

Every game is rushed. That's the nature of software development. There's never time to add everything you want.

 

This and

 

Software Developers... if it were up to us, it will never be done. Always a new feature, always some optimization...

 

This and

 

No, it wasn't rushed. Bioware has never taken as long on a game as they have taken on this one. I don't know how you can call that rushed.

Talk to any developer, and they'll tell you there's always cut content. There's always ideas they had that they couldn't get done for whatever reason (time being the most common). That's just how the industry is. If they implemented every good idea they had, the game would never be finished.

 

This.

 

Why is this thread still going? All from page 1.

[katokires]

This and

 

 

This and

 

 

This.

 

Why is this thread still going? All from page 1.

Diablo 3 wasn't rushed. Blizzard takes her time to do things right... well it didn't work, at least for me, but the point is Diablo 3 is a good exemple of what is REALLY to take your time to make a good game.

 

Also the thread kept going because it is true, "Bioware" said. But feel free to argue against the fact.

[robertthebard]

Diablo 3 wasn't rushed. Blizzard takes her time to do things right... well it didn't work, at least for me, but the point is Diablo 3 is a good exemple of what is REALLY to take your time to make a good game.
 
Also the thread kept going because it is true, "Bioware" said. But feel free to argue against the fact.

Why, thank you for your consent, I appreciate it, and I'm sure that, without it, I just wouldn't be able to continue to post. However, as I said in my first post here, people are reading way more into it than it says. That's cool and all, I understand, this is the BSN, and if you're not here to bash BioWare, you're doing it wrong, and frankly, I do hope it continues, because I need some comedy in my life.

[Kohaku]

I doubt this game was rushed at all. The massive amount of content included in the base game (boring or not) is astounding. I'm actually shocked it took them such a short about of time to make a game of this scale. Like others said things just have to get cut. Eventually they have to know which battles they can tackle and which ones they can't. If that means having to hold back on some content to release it at a later time then so be it.

 

Really now, who would want to wait another two years for this game to see the light of day?

[katokires]

Why, thank you for your consent, I appreciate it, and I'm sure that, without it, I just wouldn't be able to continue to post. However, as I said in my first post here, people are reading way more into it than it says. That's cool and all, I understand, this is the BSN, and if you're not here to bash BioWare, you're doing it wrong, and frankly, I do hope it continues, because I need some comedy in my life.

Yeah right, there are SO many possible meanings on what they said LOL

[Giantdeathrobot]

Don't you know, RPG's were perfected in video games in the year 2000. Everything else has been downhill from there. 

 

Of course, that kind of attitude gets in the way of actual analysis. People need to realize that games from the past had the same problems as games in the present, the difference is you now have the internet to track these things and a narrative that is being told to you by opinion leaders. 

 

Exactly. This whole concept that there ever was a perfect age for gaming is nostalgia at best, fiction at worst. Sure, the modern era has its fair share of bad elements (intrusive DRM, overpriced DLC, dishonest marketing, endless Activision and Ubisoft-like iterative sequels) but this idea that RPGs released complete and bug free in the past because evil EA wasn't there is completely ridiculous and doesn't hold up to even a cursory examination of actual facts. Hell, if people think EA is bad, Interplay basically jettisoned the Fallout franchise back in the day because they wanted to turn an isometric RPG into third person shoot 'em ups and stupid stuff like that, while actually canning a proper Fallout 3. Whatever you think of Inquisition, it's nowhere near as bad as that.

 

I have no problem with someone prefering a certain style of isometric RPGs over games like Inquisition, and I love Fallout and Baldur's Gate as much as the next person, but it seems some people need to put those titles on a pedestal that they never reached, which is puzzling to me. These games stand on their own quite well, no need no shroud thm in some sort of mythical perfection and pretend they are things they never were.

[ashwind]

Diablo 3 wasn't rushed. Blizzard takes her time to do things right... well it didn't work, at least for me, but the point is Diablo 3 is a good exemple of what is REALLY to take your time to make a good game.

 

Also the thread kept going because it is true, "Bioware" said. But feel free to argue against the fact.

 

To me, Diablo 3 is the perfect example of: Give Blizzard all the time in the world and yet they came up with that piece of @$#$@#^%$#^%$#%. You really think they spent all that time "Developing Diablo 3" LOL

 

After Diabolic 3, I will never pay Blizzard a dime

[seraphymon]

IMO DAI was too ambitious for its own good. Soo many things, yet it lacks a lot of depth, especially for the main story. What is there is good,but the rest is lackluster and clearly some aspects of DAi were rushed, but no where near the extent of DA2.

[Little Princess Peach]

im sure we will see most of it in dlc so whats the problem?

you are reading way to much into this making a moutain out of moel hills

[Equalitas]

DA:I is a good game and loved the exploration storytelling and the little main plot we got. But nowhere near as polished as Origins was. We will never get a game as polished as Origins again from Bioware as long as "business is  business" is a motto. Time will never be given to Bioware. DLC will give us the full experience i guess.

[Joxer]

To Quote David Gaider from the DA off the record podcast: "We did cut a ton of content."

 

I wish they didn't cut what they cut but cut grinding instead.

 

Whatever they cut they probably added twice as much anyway. Maybe more dialogues to make up for it. Just guessing here.

 

Twice as much? More. Much more. Grinding. Added.

[helpthisguyplease]

 Actually the only single player game that I know that has not problem with being rushed to finish something is a browser game but I can tell you something those devs do not have to worry about deadlines. It gives a good feeling to know that when a feature is promised at some point is gonna be made and integrated in the game, and until then I can enjoy the ton of content that game has and that is update with new quest and features every week.

 But the problem with well games that are made for windows and you need to install is that devs have to just take some of their ideas and discard them.

 Of course they took actual features from the game after they spent resources to create them and after they promoted them and teased us with them without telling us the real reason because "time constraint" does not work as a excuse when you actually made and had the features a year before release.

 Nobody forces a company to be honest and transparent but they should they really should.

[Vilegrim]

no more than every single game ever has been 'rushed' as can be seen with the huge amount of content mods for Baldurs Gate series that restore missing sections/flesh out sketchy ones.

[Chaos17]

 Actually the only single player game that I know that has not problem with being rushed to finish something is a browser game but I can tell you something those devs do not have to worry about deadlines. It gives a good feeling to know that when a feature is promised at some point is gonna be made and integrated in the game, and until then I can enjoy the ton of content that game has and that is update with new quest and features every week.

 But the problem with well games that are made for windows and you need to install is that devs have to just take some of their ideas and discard them.

 Of course they took actual features from the game after they spent resources to create them and after they promoted them and teased us with them without telling us the real reason because "time constraint" does not work as a excuse when you actually made and had the features a year before release.

 Nobody forces a company to be honest and transparent but they should they really should

 

I will have to disagree.

I'm sorry for you if you didn't played a lot of variety of different kind/origin of videos games.

 

 

To me, Diablo 3 is the perfect example of: Give Blizzard all the time in the world and yet they came up with that piece of @$#$@#^%$#^%$#%. You really think they spent all that time "Developing Diablo 3" LOL

 

After Diabolic 3, I will never pay Blizzard a dime

 

HAHhahahaaaaaaaaaaa

First, Diablo 3 didn't messed up with the PC controls.

Second, they got better with each patches and they didn't broke their games with them.

 

Blizzard is able to bow their head and admit their errors by doing majors changes like withdrowing the Auction House while it certainly brough a lot of money for them. But it was hurting the players so they withdrawing it and said sorry that won't happen anymore.

 

Who the hell will withdraw from their games a major income and will put players first ?!

So please, don't sprout nonesense about them.

[Dragoonlordz]

Everything you basically said here.

 

-snip-

 

Well, that's a bit unfair. Yes there will be paid DLC, and chances are some cut content will make it into it, but the DLC will not be all cut content. My point is they had DLC planned already, the cut content is extra stuff thrown in if they have the time to implement it. Thinking otherwise, such as what your post suggests, makes you sound ignorant of the production side of things. Admittingly I don't know much either, most of my own assertions are based on patterns and business practices ive seen/heard over the years. But yeah, from the outside looking in, your initial assertion is incorrect.

 

And that is not how BioWare works these days. How companies work in game development is based on three principles, copied from another thread I talked about this. For the most part, this is the norm for AAA companies. 

 

Production and Development Costs: Including separate tiers of money going to developer salaries, voice actors and foley artists, music and orchestral work, licensing for the product, and in-game development split into the base game, multiplayer modes, and DLC. Now a days, all three get separate budgets. 

 

Marketing Costs: Including promotion,launch parties, events and trailer adverts.

 

Manufacturing Costs: Making disks for sale, and online distribution, that money is allocated too in initial budgeting.

 

My initial comment was not incorrect in the slightest. With regard to your reply I bolded and underlined the parts that I will respond too as only those relate to what I said. Not only are you trying to put words in my mouth and try to move the goal posts by arguing about something I never said in the original comment...but also then trying to justify your reply by using what I said as evidence despite the fact it did not back up what you claimed. You actually agreed with my first comment in two out of three parts, both in will be paid for DLC and will contain cut content (I did not say "all" aka only cut content within the DLC's).

 

The only part you did not actually agree with was that it is how Bioware works these days but that is hypocrisy since it is how Bioware works currently, you said you agree without realizing you did so by stating it is the 'norm' these days 'for the most part' in your reply. The reality is that is what they do currently do and by proxy my first comment was not wrong despite you and the other person claiming otherwise. Your claim I do not know about how business works is not backed up by your replies, you agreed with my initial comment in almost all regards and then started ranting on about something I never said so had no relevance and no basis for claiming what you did.

[DetcelferVisionary]

It's a business.  Why are people crying about this?  This is life.  Cold hard truth.  Be grateful you got the game you did.  Bitching about it after giving them your money is absolutely ridiculous.  Especially because you had DA2 and ME3 to give you warning along with a ton of reviews out there that came out before the game did.  

 

This game is a huge step in the right direction.  NOTHING will EVER be perfect when it comes to games.  They could always be better.

[Dragoonlordz]

It's a business.  Why are people crying about this?  This is life.  Cold hard truth.  Be grateful you got the game you did.  Bitching about it after giving them your money is absolutely ridiculous.  Especially because you had DA2 and ME3 to give you warning along with a ton of reviews out there that came out before the game did.  

 

This game is a huge step in the right direction.  NOTHING will EVER be perfect when it comes to games.  They could always be better.

 

Getting something for free would be something no-one really should be ungrateful for because it cost them nothing, but when your paying for something you are entitled to be disappointed and unhappy if does not live up to expectations especially when those expectations are based on content shown but later cut from the game. Complaining about something after paid for it is exactly how the world works and it's called feedback and criticism, something that generally improves products over time making them better and better.

 

The developers are not required to take action on that feedback but you very much are entitled to express criticism and leave that feedback especially if you bought the product. So firstly I do not agree with your comment people should be grateful that a product they paid for if never lived up to either the promotional trailers etc or even to a degree their expectations and secondly criticizing, leaving a review or leaving feedback is not in any way, shape or form ridiculous after buying a product.

[Precursor Meta]

There's still so much game though.

[LinksOcarina]

My initial comment was not incorrect in the slightest. With regard to your reply I bolded and underlined the parts that I will respond too as only those relate to what I said. Not only are you trying to put words in my mouth and try to move the goal posts by arguing about something I never said in the original comment...but also then trying to justify your reply by using what I said as evidence despite the fact it did not back up what you claimed. You actually agreed with my first comment in two out of three parts, both in will be paid for DLC and will contain cut content (I did not say "all" aka only cut content within the DLC's).

 

The only part you did not actually agree with was that it is how Bioware works these days but that is hypocrisy since it is how Bioware works currently, you said you agree without realizing you did so by stating it is the 'norm' these days 'for the most part' in your reply. The reality is that is what they do currently do and by proxy my first comment was not wrong despite you and the other person claiming otherwise. Your claim I do not know about how business works is not backed up by your replies, you agreed with my initial comment in almost all regards and then started ranting on about something I never said so had no relevance and no basis for claiming what you did.

 

I honestly don't care about your wounded pride at this point. 

 

I appreciate the more tactful approach at least. If I jumped the gun i'm sorry, but I still stand by what I said regarding the practices of BioWare, and how budgeting works, because it kinda of is how its broken down in the end. 

[Viidicus]

The games not rushed it just lacks focus, wasted money on things that shouldnt exist.

 

Vast worlds that most people wont bother exploring as theres nothing there but boring fetch quests, paying a second voice actor to read the same script just to have two voices to choose from when they could have one set voice and the money spent on the second voice actor could pay the first one for more dialogue options and paths.

 

Why is this game even open world? lol 

[Dragoonlordz]

I honestly don't care about your wounded pride at this point. 

 

I appreciate the more tactful approach at least. If I jumped the gun i'm sorry, but I still stand by what I said regarding the practices of BioWare, and how budgeting works, because it kinda of is how its broken down in the end. 

 

It has nothing to do with pride, my point is if your going to jump into an argument between two other people then don't claim I said something which I did not, do not claim you have evidence when you do not and don't be hypocritical in your stance of which my last post pointed out that hypocrisy when you claimed I do not know how business works while at same time agreeing with everything I said in my initial post even if you did not realize was doing so or want to admit it.

[Rip504]

Perhaps they could become more efficient.

[keyip]

My initial comment was not incorrect in the slightest. 

 

Yes it was. You originally stated "It will all be paid for DLC and a lot of it will contain content they cut," you then changed this statement to agree with Links that any DLC featuring cut content will mostly be as an afterthought. It is you that is moving the goalposts, your original statement was dead wrong.

[Vexed Forest]

This happens to all games. Nothing new.