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How could you have got it so wrong... again?


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#101
Dandynermite

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Different strokes I guess. I personally found the direction in Fallout 3 very jarring until towards the end. It started off with a particular story and then just forgot about it. It lacked direction for me which is what made it feel meandering, there never felt like there were high stakes like I was at risk until The Enclave turned up.

 

Anyway, no, I'm not saying it's too big of a task for BW. What I'm saying is it's too big a task to do on your first attempt, for any developer in fact not just for BW. Especially the case when you offer more than those other games in other areas. Like I said, I have never felt engaged with my character or the NPCs in a Bethesda world. They are fun games, great to lose yourself in but that's all. Dragon Age games make me care, pull me in, make me experience emotions and make me sit there for 10-15 minutes solid unable to make a decision sometimes (Iron Bull quest). Do I ever experience that in a Bethesda game? No.

 

So yes, I agree, I think they made the scope of the game too large compared to how much they could fill it with. And to compensate for that, they added alot of fetch/generic content. I do think they should've downsized their scope somewhat. However, it feels like you're being very blind-sided in your view. You're keen to pinpoint on the aspects that Inquisition lacks without giving any credence to things it does that Fallout 3, NV, Skyrim etc. have never done and likely will never do. Inquisiton is NOT a sandbox game, you need to take that into consideration.

People slated Watch Dogs because it wasn't as good at sandbox as GTA5 - I didn't because I never expected it to be, it was Ubisoft's first attempt at such a game vs. Rockstar who could make such games in their sleep these days (and GTA5 was an exceptional game even for them). It did, however, offer cool new ideas and concepts that GTA never did. Again, all those seem to be ignored and people treated it like it was just a sandbox game like GTA: it wasn't.

Process of improvement. Try, fail, learn, retry, succeed. That's how you grow and improve, and I fully expect the next instalment (or even Inquisition through content additions) to catch up. I also suspect TW3 will suffer from similar issues, all I can't guess is whether they'll be better or worse than Inquisition.

 

What does Inquisition offer that Fallout doesn't... bar cutscenes, there is very little I can find...

 

Watch Dog is a decent game, it can stand up to GTA on points. Watch Dog has the excuse of being new because it is new, Dragon Age isn't, its a sequel. Sequel's are pre-ordered placed on the previous games. Changing it completely & screwing it up, isn't right.
 

There are also far far together choices in Fallout than in Inquisition, the world isn't anywhere near dark enough considering what's at stake, but that's a completely different point I'll stay away from.



#102
Sjofn

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3) Why do choices have absolutely no consequences? I sided with and freed the templars, doesn't affect the Red Templars being the main enemy for the entire game basically, if I side with the mages, templars still the enemy... These big plot decisions have absolutely no impact other than you saying "Oh, I saved the templars". I thought this was learnt after ME3 when your choices in dialogue resulted in the same outcome no matter what you chose. This is so far from DA:O, even DA2! it's unreal.

 

This is flat out wrong.

 

Spoiler


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#103
Dandynermite

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This is flat out wrong.

 

Spoiler

 

 

No it isn't. Keep playing the game, at the Well, the enemies will be Red Templars, at most of the Keeps, Red Templars, you will not see any rebel mages, Venatori are the enemy in some zones, Red Templars in the other. Haven is the only time it changes.



#104
StrangeStrategy

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1. Because people like open-world games and it makes the whole world seem more "real" when we get to go out and explore it. It helps, in its own way.

 

2. Because it takes time to do stuff. It encourages you to go out into the world while waiting for the next war-room decision. Gotta do both, not just one.

 

3. Siding and freeing the Templars means mages/Venatori become the main enemy. Either you encountered a huge bug, or you weren't paying attention. What consequences are you expecting? Your choices determine which is wiped out (Rebels/Templars), the new emperor/empress of Orlais, the fate of the Grey Wardens, who drinks from the well... blah blah blah. choices. The Consequences of such are reflected in dialogue with companions, war room missions, approval, the next game hopefully... Same as the other DA games really.

 

4. Yeah

 

5. Is it only three slides? Its narrated by Morrigan, which makes it better already. And it tells us the consequences of our gameplay. Good enough I guess.

 

6. Uh, advance the story? Or maybe you're thinking about those towers: I haven't completed those requisitions, maybe completing them upgrades the place. I don't know, do you?

 

Glad to see you go. You're difficult to please and whiny, and its people like you who stretch companies out, trying to please everyone. The game has its flaws, mostly bugs and shallow side-quests, but I certainly had no issue with the story, the choices, the companions, or the world. It was a great game in my book. You yourself said "Oh, I didn't go to exalted plains"... I loved the Exalted Plains. You meet some Dalish, you reclaim some forts for the Civil War (and see them get re-populated) explore some Elven Ruins and find glyphs, fight a dragon... Seriously, try it out. Its one of the better zones actually.

 

Bad review, bad you.



#105
Sjofn

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No it isn't. Keep playing the game, at the Well, the enemies will be Red Templars, at most of the Keeps, Red Templars, you will not see any rebel mages, Venatori are the enemy in some zones, Red Templars in the other. Haven is the only time it changes.

 

This is wrong. Sorry! You're just ... you're just wrong. The only zone I can think of where this won't be the case, probably, is Emprise du Lion. The keeps I've taken were either Venatori held or held by non-Corypheus forces to begin with. But the scattered wandering Corypheus dudes in, say, Hinterlands? Red Templars in one playthrough, Venatori in the other.



#106
Dandynermite

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This is wrong. Sorry! You're just ... you're just wrong. The only zone I can think of where this won't be the case, probably, is Emprise du Lion. The keeps I've taken were either Venatori held or held by non-Corypheus forces to begin with. But the scattered wandering Corypheus dudes in, say, Hinterlands? Red Templars in one playthrough, Venatori in the other.

 

There are red templars everywhere in mine, I hardly see an Venatori bar in the Desert, everything else is Templars, and yes I did side with and save the Templar order. 



#107
MooseheadMcMoose

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They gave GOTY to a game that is not even done.

 

Well, at least DA:I is "officially" (for what value that has) released. Rust isn't done - the developers don't even claim it's done (and I agree, it isn't). Yet Edge had Rust on the short list for an award.

 

It kind of delegitimizes the whole award thing. If you can get an award for a game that isn't finished and isn't released, then what's the value of an award for one that is? It seems to me that the whole GOTY award was a handshake deal by Edge and had little to do with the merits of DA:I



#108
SkyKing

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I am 100% with OP.  Everyone who disagrees either A. Never played DAO or B. Is and idiot. 

 

EVERY little quest and detail in DAO had an outcome and a slide at the end game.  (even little things like if you help a little dwarf girl become a mage or stay w/ her parents, decisions for minor characters, EVERY zone had options and alternatives from who if anybody you helped become dwarf king to helping werewolves/elves/vsboth, etc.etc.etc.  

 

In DAI - The other zones all have the same outcome, they don't have their own individual stories and different outcomes, and zero mention in the end game slides. The whole game is filled with generic grab, find, and close rift quests. 

 

The DEMO was a lie to everybody.  They made it appear like in Crestwood you could build up keeps in each zone and have fights/decisions,etc, a really in depth story.  I suspect that in the hinterlands that outlaw fort was originally going to have a greater purpose then killing a generic boss and not even able to claim for the Inquisition. 

 

The KEEP is a joke.  I was really dissappointed then I got renewed hope after Haven was destroyed.  I thought I'd be able to build up Haven for the first fight, then when Skyhold was revealed I thought, finally, the game starts for real, NOW surely will come all the customizations, etc.   

 

I did my first upgrade to skyhold, picking a chantry vs a garden.  I didn't notice a change at all.  I reloaded and did a garden.   Both looked the same, the garden had 4 potable plants, the chantry had 2 and chantry had more priestesses there.  Both upgrades identical.  

 

Then the stupid tower upgrade.  I was thinking it would build or be something impressive and important.  This tiny tower in the back corner, both identical, one will have generic mages the other generic templars inside.  Don't make a difference, never a fight, etc.  You watch as your keep is automatically fixed up to an extent.  From the beginning for banners and flags you have every option and the others you must collect. 

 

I am 1/2 through a replay with a completely different backstory and making completely different choices, and everything is the same!!! A few MINOR changes but 98% of everything is identical!!! 

 

DAO I played on every character and every possible opening story and so many different changes and options it was like playing a new game every time.  

 

I also will not be buying a bioware game again!!!! I hope a class action lawsuit is brought up on the false advertising, etc for this game.  Especially from the demo.  

 

Romances are crap, must have all been done by gay guys.  Gay guys have like 4 options,  straight guys have 2 options (ugly girls), and 1 lez option.  The straight guys option is mediocre, one of the girls he can't even get 2nd base with.  

 

If they made EACH ZONE like DAO with choices and unique endings for EACH ZONE, if instead of all the stupid fetch papers and read papers quests they were with NPCS with real choices and different outcomes ALL showing results at the end game,  if Skyhold was customizable, many of the main structures you choose what to do,  who to employ, build it up, and have atleast a big battle before the end battle, more and better romance options, and UNIQUE openings like in DAO that made the game so great to replay, that should have been the bare minimum! 

 

All the fools who think this is a great game can go back to playing WOW. 


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#109
Teshayel

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Short answer: because Skyrim sold by truckload.

 

If only DA:I could be modded as readily as Skyrim...

 

As for OP: I wish they would have invested the money they spent on the MP component elsewhere. Like an alternative to the pajamas my Quizzy has to wear in Skyhold, more hair styles, appropriate/accurate female animations. I haven't tried MP in ME3 to this day, and am as unlikely to try it in DA:I.


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#110
TristynTrine

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Short answer: because Skyrim sold by truckload.

Given the number of people who appear to enjoy this aspect of DAI a lot on forums other than BW's it seems this decision worked out well for them. You'll probably see more of that in the future.

But Skyrim has tons of mods, After playing modded skyrim, I can't play unmodded. It's too boring lol.  And this engine isn't very mod friendly it seems...


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#111
amranthe

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Let me put it this way. This game is not for you. If you had payed attention when they were marketing the game you'd know that. They made it clear this was going to be something different. And in fact, I find the game to be quite excellent minus the bugs. I think the issue is that you wanted another DA:O. But it was clearly never going to be that. The game is just not for you. And that's ok, But bitching because the game went a different direction is getting old. I've seen it 500 times at this point.

 

Sigh.

 

Look Ceoldoren, I'm not picking on you but this is the one I chose to quote. I see this argument so often. "This game isn't for you" "If you don't like it, don't play" etc ad nauseam.

 

Stop. 

 

I get that everyone has different tastes, duh. But you can't tell someone they're not allowed to be upset when something they loved is now crap (in their eyes). Your point would be entirely valid if this was a new IP. If this was just some random RPG made brand new that decided to be an open world sprawling thing then yes, saying "This isn't the game for you" makes sense.

 

The POINT however, is not that this particular game sucks -- it's that they ruined what they once had. There are tons and tons of other open world games to play (and yes, I get that EA went with this model because it $ell$), the reason many of us fans get upset is because they took something that was great, that was unique, and ruined all the qualities that made it unique in the first place.

 

Linear storytelling/gameplay is not a bad thing when the story is well done. DAO and DA2 proved that. Also, the loss of the combat tactics and actual tactical gameplay is what I miss the most. Creating your own AI is pretty much my most favorite thing ever, so I'm really sad to see that it is one thing they dropped.

 

The open world in this game isn't so bad, honestly. It's just that it completely ruins the pacing of the story since I spend 1 hour doing a "story" quest and 10+ hours gathering shards or tiles. Choices do not feel as weighty as they did in DAO and DA2. I have played through the game 2.5 times and I can say easily that my choices really don't make a difference except in the most minor sense. And no, having a different blurb on the war table does NOT count as "having impact". When I say impact, I mean game altering world shattering storytelling changes.

 

My biggest gripe as far as impact goes?

 

Spoiler


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#112
phaonica

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I didn't read this whole thread, but look, OP, there are plenty of us in the boards that agree with you, but you've gotta say it nicer or you're asking for a fight instead of understanding.


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#113
Chaeote

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1) Why was it an open-world attempt? It feels like I am playing a bad version of WoW when I have to get on a mount and go for ages to get from one side to the other. When people said Dragon Age 2 was too small, they meant too small on content, not time the maps by ten, add random mobs but don't actually increase the story/cutscenes etc.

 

2) Why on a single player game do I have times to advance to the story. It feels like I am playing a freemium mobile game? Lelliana is gone for 22 hours, I am just waiting for the "Spend 10 coins to finish instantly, buy coins for $x".... Really? Who even thought that would be a good idea?

 

3) Why do choices have absolutely no consequences? I sided with and freed the templars, doesn't affect the Red Templars being the main enemy for the entire game basically, if I side with the mages, templars still the enemy... These big plot decisions have absolutely no impact other than you saying "Oh, I saved the templars". I thought this was learnt after ME3 when your choices in dialogue resulted in the same outcome no matter what you chose. This is so far from DA:O, even DA2! it's unreal.

 

4) Why can't I click to move without going to tactical mode? That's plain stupid, the only way to go forward on PC is to hold W in 2014...

 

5) Why are there 3 slides at the end and that's it? Dragon Age Origins explained everything you did and the consequences, its a simple simple job that ends the story so well, yet it just doesn't happen...

 

6) Why is Skyhold never repaired? Holes in the walls, cobwebs, empty trashed rooms are never looked at yet I have the whole Inquisition there? VERY, VERY LAZY work.

 

1. Cause it's the next logical step up from Dragon Age: Origins that they should have done in DA2.

2. There's a workaround if you REALLY don't want to wait, but it's -kinda- cheating. (The timers go off your system clock...just start the operation, change it to tomorrow, boom, instant completion)

 

3. ...what are you talking about? I saved the Templar, and I've been fighting nothing but Venetori the entire game. They showed up when Haven was destroyed, Corypheus' right-hand is Ventori, the Ventori attacked at the Empress's ball...

 

4. Click to move is older than WASD movement...so don't pretdn it's some new invention. I actually find it highly annoying outside of a top-down view.

5. *shrug* haven't gotten there yet

6. Did you do the side quests toi repair the garden and the coutryard and stuff?



#114
Fullmetall21

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Bioware makes a linear game placed in a city (DA2) "Great we are stuck in a city good job Bioware"

Bioware makes vast open world areas some of which are stunning (emerald graves) "Why do you make such big areas"

 

Seriously there is no pleasing you guys. I loved Origins but lets say Bioware did make a game exactly like Origins as a sequel what would people say then you ask? of course not well done this is a great game (even if it was) they would just say great a paid x amount of dollars to get Origins ver.2 , Bioware failed and so on you know the drill.

 

Fact is that people will ALWAYS find something to complain about and this is obviously not feedback in any kind it's more like a rage quit  only good at provoking others. If you don't like the game either make a suggestion on how to improve it if you think you're so good at it or leave the game be, and those who actually enjoy it for that it is, and move on. Pointless moaning helps no one and this is exactly the kind of thread Bioware would never look at.


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#115
Malevolent_King

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I agree in everyway..... I still feel that Dragon Age Origins is a much MUCH stronger game.  Origins had confined maps but with the interactions, story, and side quests, I felt like that game was much larger in scope, plot, and scale than this game.  Each battle could be planned, even seemingly impossible battles could be won with enough preplanning of setting up traps, character placement, and strategy.  Did they fire the Lead game designer of Origins or something?



#116
Malevolent_King

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Every action felt like it had consequence, this game, I talk to party members, go 40hrs on side missions putting markers around and return to haven and find they have nothing new to talk about.  Have to continue the main story for the code to trigger them with new conversation trees.  This game is extremely dull.  Roaming the wilderness, reading books, occasionally fighting a creature, pick up useless items, go back to Haven to sell items, have a inventory of 50/60 items after selling them because no thought was given to separating out requisition items from junk items, rinse, and repeat..... Before someone says they are separated by color markers, Spider Ichor and Ferelden Medallions which are used in recquisitions are BLUE, not gold/yellow... so, no, there isn't any real way to tell



#117
Chaeote

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Bioware makes a linear game placed in a city (DA2) "Great we are stuck in a city good job Bioware"

Bioware makes vast open world areas some of which are stunning (emerald graves) "Why do you make such big areas"

 

I think part of the issue might be the fast travel.

 

You HAVE to fast travel, even from the begining. so it creates a more zoned feeling, in DA:O and even in DA:2 you had to travel at least part way to get to a new zone.

 

Even in Skyrim you have to get to a place first before you fast travel later.

 

It makes the areas feel less connected.

 

It's jsut an illusionary disconnection, but it's there.

 

It doesn't even bother me, cause Bioware game have always used Modular worlds, it works great at allowing them to create huge worlds, without some of the issues that full open world games can have, and let's be honest Skyrim has a LOT of those.

 

It's a trade off, better individual areas + disconnected, or full connectivity + weird world issues.



#118
Suhiira

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Yeah I loved DA:O as well but can see where EA is pushing Bioware to go so won't bother with DA:4 since it'll probably be even more action game/MMO then DA:I is.



#119
gotthammer

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To OP:
 

I finished my playthrough after ~125 hours. Started a new one, ~30 hours in.

1.) I understand your issue w/ the "open world" approach, but I liked it (for the most part). The MMO-ish feel (from the pacing/layout of the regions) could be improved on, but I thought it was pretty good.
Also, Bioware: PLEASE MAKE MOUNTS GO FASTER. :P
(for reference, check out that recent Legend of Zelda video highlighting their new horse mechanic :D )

2.) The War Room missions were quite annoying, I'd have to agree. I do wish they could make it that you could pay, with Power you accumulate in-game, to either shorten or remove the wait.
Along w/ the MMO-like approach to other aspects of the game, the War Room missions did feel like just more time padding (more noticeable since you had to wait in real-time).

3.) Doesn't feel that way. I also think it's unrealistic to expect too drastic a change in terms of choices. Still better, overall, than the Red-Blue-Green ME3 endings.

4.) Heh. Yeah. Sometimes I keep thinking that it's an MMO, and I do try to click-to-move. Would be a nice option, but I don't mind it as it is.

5.) I was hoping for a longer, more detailed Epilogue, too. What's there works, tho'. And the post credits scene was a nice touch.

6.) Yeah...the portions that remained damaged throughout the game did bug me (one of the walls, the hallway leading to the War Room, some of the interiors of towers). The cosmetic tweaks to the stronghold didn't seem to repair all the damaged parts
Example: the courtyard cosmetic option either repairs that building next to the building w/ the Requisitions guy OR adds something in the courtyard.
I am changing some of my options in the current playthrough, so maybe that will be a tad different, but I'm not sure.
That and repair for a good chunk don't seem dependent on the stuff you pay for via Requisitions, and seems to be tied to progressing through a part in the game (the Winter Palace segment).
After that, no further repairs seem to happen. It would be nice, tho', if they added more options to tweak/fix the stronghold (more so if it's beyond cosmetic). Being able to pay for all 6 options (instead of just picking 3 of the 6 options) would also be nice (esp. since you could be drowning in resources by game's end).

Overall, I'm pleased with the game. I'd agree w/ those that think that DA Inquisition is a "return to form" for Bioware (as I count myself among those disappointed w/ DA2 and ME3...SWTOR, too, I guess)

Is it perfect? Of course not.
Heck, the only reason I'm posting on this forum is 'cause I'm worried about patching my copy of the game after all the negative reports I've been seeing. :P
Hopefully they can polish it, and I am looking forward to what content they'll add to it later on.



#120
Melca36

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Sigh.

 

Look Ceoldoren, I'm not picking on you but this is the one I chose to quote. I see this argument so often. "This game isn't for you" "If you don't like it, don't play" etc ad nauseam.

 

Stop. 

 

I get that everyone has different tastes, duh. But you can't tell someone they're not allowed to be upset when something they loved is now crap (in their eyes). Your point would be entirely valid if this was a new IP. If this was just some random RPG made brand new that decided to be an open world sprawling thing then yes, saying "This isn't the game for you" makes sense.

 

The POINT however, is not that this particular game sucks -- it's that they ruined what they once had. There are tons and tons of other open world games to play (and yes, I get that EA went with this model because it $ell$), the reason many of us fans get upset is because they took something that was great, that was unique, and ruined all the qualities that made it unique in the first place.

 

Linear storytelling/gameplay is not a bad thing when the story is well done. DAO and DA2 proved that. Also, the loss of the combat tactics and actual tactical gameplay is what I miss the most. Creating your own AI is pretty much my most favorite thing ever, so I'm really sad to see that it is one thing they dropped.

 

The open world in this game isn't so bad, honestly. It's just that it completely ruins the pacing of the story since I spend 1 hour doing a "story" quest and 10+ hours gathering shards or tiles. Choices do not feel as weighty as they did in DAO and DA2. I have played through the game 2.5 times and I can say easily that my choices really don't make a difference except in the most minor sense. And no, having a different blurb on the war table does NOT count as "having impact". When I say impact, I mean game altering world shattering storytelling changes.

 

My biggest gripe as far as impact goes?

 

Spoiler

 

 

DA2 had enemies materializing from the ceiling. It was a $60 game that was only worth about $30. The only redeeming value of the game was the characters.   
 

Some of us want our moneys worth when it comes to a game. Sounds like you just want instant gratification and have everything handed to you



#121
Noelemahc

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Bioware makes a linear game placed in a city (DA2) "Great we are stuck in a city good job Bioware"

Bioware makes vast open world areas some of which are stunning (emerald graves) "Why do you make such big areas"

 

Seriously there is no pleasing you guys. 

Please note: both were first-try attempts at such a focus. Both kinda fell short, because a city where you have to fast travel all over the place and which has no practical design like a real city should have (if you want an extreme example, look at the layout of Taris from KotOR - it feels like you're in a tiny village, not a district of a megalopolis) isn't a well-designed city (especially when the layout of the city is actually important to the plot), and the open-worldness of DAI, while beautiful to look at, is also chock full of padding with typical "20 bear asses" side-quests to the point where the devs themselves had to step in and shout at people to leave the starting area because they didn't devise any way to force that behaviour on the player through the game.

 

You know, "show, don't tell", the usual bane of BioWare game design?



#122
ShadowC82

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Don't know where you got your information brah but witcher 3 is still set for release in feb not may..lol

 

No.

 

http://www.ign.com/a...e-delayed-again



#123
Ceoldoren

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You played the game? Western Approach? Emperis du Po (or whatever its called), do this quest, wait several hours, "NEW ZONE UNLOCKED"! do some more quests, send operative on mission waiting several hours again "NEW ZONE UNLOCKED"!

None of the missions to unlock new zones are timed. So this is complete bullshit, nice try though. 


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#124
Ceoldoren

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Sigh.

 

Look Ceoldoren, I'm not picking on you but this is the one I chose to quote. I see this argument so often. "This game isn't for you" "If you don't like it, don't play" etc ad nauseam.

 

Stop. 

 

I get that everyone has different tastes, duh. But you can't tell someone they're not allowed to be upset when something they loved is now crap (in their eyes). Your point would be entirely valid if this was a new IP. If this was just some random RPG made brand new that decided to be an open world sprawling thing then yes, saying "This isn't the game for you" makes sense.

 

The POINT however, is not that this particular game sucks -- it's that they ruined what they once had. There are tons and tons of other open world games to play (and yes, I get that EA went with this model because it $ell$), the reason many of us fans get upset is because they took something that was great, that was unique, and ruined all the qualities that made it unique in the first place.

 

Linear storytelling/gameplay is not a bad thing when the story is well done. DAO and DA2 proved that. Also, the loss of the combat tactics and actual tactical gameplay is what I miss the most. Creating your own AI is pretty much my most favorite thing ever, so I'm really sad to see that it is one thing they dropped.

 

The open world in this game isn't so bad, honestly. It's just that it completely ruins the pacing of the story since I spend 1 hour doing a "story" quest and 10+ hours gathering shards or tiles. Choices do not feel as weighty as they did in DAO and DA2. I have played through the game 2.5 times and I can say easily that my choices really don't make a difference except in the most minor sense. And no, having a different blurb on the war table does NOT count as "having impact". When I say impact, I mean game altering world shattering storytelling changes.

 

My biggest gripe as far as impact goes?

 

Spoiler

No, it's completely valid. IP's go in new directions all the time. Liking one part of the series does not mean you'll like the next one.

 

And no, you're entitled to be upset if you don't like the game. But expressing it by acting like a five year old throwing a fit is stupid. 


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#125
Dandynermite

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None of the missions to unlock new zones are timed. So this is complete bullshit, nice try though. 

 

Clearly you haven't found the gas in the Western Approach, or the bridge that needs repairing.

But then you've made it obvious from post one you're the biggest Bioware fanboy going so wouldn't expect that anyway