47 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I wasn't in a romance with him but he told me about coming off the lyrium, which I understood first happened back in Kirkwall so he was probably over the worst part.   Still he was aware it could compromise his ability to command and Cassandra was meant to be monitoring him.

 

Strangely enough, first run through he told me this immediately after the task I'd set him to sort out Wycombe and my clan had been killed, so it was almost like he was apologising for what happened and trying to explain it - though I realise of course that it was just timing.

 

I guess he was just strong willed enough to cope.

[Luckyanna]

On Cullen's "easy-peasy" lyrium withdrawal:

 

[snip]

 

That's arguable. I'd say he had a pretty bad PTSD and he really loathed mages. He's hardly fair-minded in DA2. When Hawke meets him for the first time he even mentions that all mages are dangerous murderous lunatics and can't be trusted (it kills me when he says that to a mage!Hawke ) He mentions in Inquisition that Meredith was good at fueling his hatred of mages, meaning there was something to fuel. He starts questioning her only during act 3 and after witnessing her decent into madness it's no wonder he stands by mage!Hawke. Although I think his concern in the situation is less about helping Hawke and more about stopping Meredith. Also, if you romance him as a mage he mentions that a few years ago he wouldn't have cared for her, because mages =/= people.

 

How he managed to go from that to what we get in DAI is beyond me. Perhaps if he's capable of such grows, I shouldn't be surprised he's one of the few to survive lyrium withdrawal.

[thesuperdarkone2]

That's arguable. I'd say he had a pretty bad PTSD and he really loathed mages. He's hardly fair-minded in DA2. When Hawke meets him for the first time he even mentions that all mages are dangerous murderous lunatics and can't be trusted (it kills me when he says that to a mage!Hawke ) He mentions in Inquisition that Meredith was good at fueling his hatred of mages, meaning there was something to fuel. He starts questioning her only during act 3 and after witnessing her decent into madness it's no wonder he stands by mage!Hawke. Although I think his concern in the situation is less about helping Hawke and more about stopping Meredith. Also, if you romance him as a mage he mentions that a few years ago he wouldn't have cared for her, because mages =/= people.

 

How he managed to go from that to what we get in DAI is beyond me. Perhaps if he's capable of such grows, I shouldn't be surprised he's one of the few to survive lyrium withdrawal.

I blame that on the Cullenites. Get enough fan following and any lunatic can suddenly become nice.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's arguable. I'd say he had a pretty bad PTSD and he really loathed mages. He's hardly fair-minded in DA2. When Hawke meets him for the first time he even mentions that all mages are dangerous murderous lunatics and can't be trusted

Uh he doesn't say that.

o.o

[nightscrawl]

Hm.. That's disappointing. 
Isn't it supposed to be a very painful process to stop taking lyrium?
That he dies or goes mad would probably be a bit too far.. But just nothing? That's really lame

 
Well he's not exactly having a fun time... Not only did his templar and military training instill discipline, but he has a strong will on his own. This is a man that was tortured by mages and still retained his sanity. The mere fact of his decision to stop taking lyrium in the first place sets him apart from someone more weak-willed, like Samson.
 
Aside from the above, there is a more game-related reason for not having his lyrium addiction issues presented as even more severe: his necessary role in the game. He is one of your three advisors, and although we learn of his agreement with Cassandra to remove him from command if he becomes unable to function, the developers can't really have that happen to a core member of the Inquisition, however that might differ from similar real life circumstances. So, he either goes back on lyrium and becomes more stable because his addiction is satisfied again, or continues to not take it and stabilizes on his own (with a pep talk and encouragement from his boss, bro, gal-pal, or lover.)

 

I told him to keep taking it until the war was over.

During the final cutscene with Cullen before the final battle, he mentions the fact that he's still taking lyrium and how he feels like he's broken his promise to himself. And after the final battle, when you talk to him at the party in Skyhold, you can pick the option "I made you a promise" to bring up helping him quit. That was actually pretty sweet, because the Inquisitor said "It's a good time for a fresh start."

Hm, while it might be interesting to see that, I don't think I could make the final choice to pick that in the game. To an addict, falling off the wagon is a huge setback and he would have to start over from the beginning, but this time he already knows the horrendous suffering withdrawal will bring.

 

 

Writing that, I've just realized that part of his torture in Ferelden probably involved being denied lyrium. This seems the most logical. Why would they give a templar lyrium? The mages will want it for themselves, and they certainly didn't care enough about him to go find his philter in the barracks and allow him to use it. As it was, they probably gave him the barest amount of food to survive. This actually would have been an interesting line to throw out during one of the conversations!

[Vita Brevis]

Uh he doesn't say that.

o.o

Well he does say "they're not people like you and me" (which is funny as f if pc is a mage, but oh well) along the lines and also how they're just weapons.

 

Though I do not agree about how it's "so" unrealistic for him. He saw the worst of both sides, he even yells at the Inq for siding with the templars (not only mages). Although yes, he does of course support the idea for comming after the templars but that's understandable I guess. If I were a mage I'd come to mages though I would've despise them but I would've despise templars even more.

And it's not like he turned around and trusts every mage and wants them to be absolutely free like Leliana, everyone who beat the game knows that he still has an issue with magic. But now it's about magic and not mages.

[frylock23]

Yes, let's completely blame the guy who was captured by and tortured by mages and the demons they summoned up for possibly days to weeks while the HoF was busy doing whatever all else the HoF was doing. Depending on how you played the game, the HoF could have settled both Orzammar and the Brecelian Forest before ever getting to the Circle Tower and the mages where he was imprisoned. You're talking about having to hold out against that kind of mental rape for upwards of a year or more potentially.

 

I think you can excuse a person for having a harsh perspective on mages for a while after that. Most women who get raped just once go through a period where they more or less tend to view almost all men as the enemy and logic has little to do with it. It's a visceral response. You have to learn to trust again.

[SpiritMuse]

I blame that on the Cullenites. Get enough fan following and any lunatic can suddenly become nice.

 

Yeah because the Cullenites totally held the dev team hostage until they caved to their every demand

[Cerulione]

In all honesty, I guess that there is a lot of things going on that is not shown on-screen. Cullen's withdrawal might happen a lot, but not on screen. Or maybe he simply doesn't want to show it to anyone for various reasons, and keep everything to himself. When I romanced him I got the impression that this man puts on a lot of emotional barrier around everything, and it really takes time to get that down. He's quite introverted, especially about his feelings & struggles. Does anyone sincerely think that he'll go tell everyone that he's having a bad withdrawal? Personally I don't think so.

 

The thing is, we don't know what actually happen off screen too. Does he tell the Inquisitor off-screen? Does he keep every struggle for himself? Is there anything that can help soften the withdrawal effect? We don't know.

 

DA:I happens in a few month period, at maximum a year. He might be dead later on, or gone mad, or whatever, we don't know. Talking with Cole about Templars & Lyrium, I got the impression that Lyrium is not like any RL drugs that can be kicked out. My bet is that he'll have to live through the effect for the rest of his life. Let's find out in DA:4.

[CuriousArtemis]

Hm.. That's disappointing. 
Isn't it supposed to be a very painful process to stop taking lyrium?
That he dies or goes mad would probably be a bit too far.. But just nothing? That's really lame

Unfortunately that's just kind of how this game works. I found myself constantly waiting for reactions to decisions I made and ultimately seeing... nothing.

[Luckyanna]

Uh he doesn't say that.

o.o

 

I was paraphrasing for dramatic effect He was very nasty towards the mages though.

 

Yes, let's completely blame the guy who was captured by and tortured by mages and the demons they summoned up for possibly days to weeks while the HoF was busy doing whatever all else the HoF was doing. Depending on how you played the game, the HoF could have settled both Orzammar and the Brecelian Forest before ever getting to the Circle Tower and the mages where he was imprisoned. You're talking about having to hold out against that kind of mental rape for upwards of a year or more potentially.

 

I don't think it was that long. It's not like they were giving him any food or water. And I might be misremembering things, but it's not stated that Uldred's uprising started right after Ostagar, it was just some time (a few days, a week maybe) prior to HoF arrival to the tower. Besides, I really doubt Gregoir would've waited for a year to clear out the tower.

[Arlee]

Some of the later scenes, especially the prayer one, get downright depressing if Cullen is on Lyrium and even more depressing if he's on Lyrium and not romanced. But that's about all the difference there is.

[ThreeF]

If you parallel Templars taking lyrium to drug addiction (and basically through the game it's often paralleled to it ) then I don't see how there could be ever a bad outcome from him stopping it.

If anything i think it meant to show his strength in character, what you see is his moment of weakness and you have a choice, help him through it or not.

[Arlee]

If anything i think it meant to show his strength in character, what you see is his moment of weakness and you have a choice, help him through it or not.

 

I also tend to look at it as a choice between letting what he wants be the important thing vs the "safer" route of having him keep taking it for the "good of the cause".

[ThreeF]

I blame that on the Cullenites. Get enough fan following and any lunatic can suddenly become nice.

Was that really the case? When I first encountered the character in DAO, I thought, what a jerk and I was very surprised to see him in DA2.

 

Whatever the case I think he is one of very few characters in  all three games that you actually get to see evolve through the span of years and that's never a bad thing.

And Cullen is very well written in DAI:

A soldier, but you see his vulnerable side too (that is sooo freaking rare to see in any fictional male military character) serious and dutiful, but also with very wry sense of humour, decent person but not against torture.  Don't know about others, but I've been waiting to see such character since maybe Valen. He made me wish I could interact more with companions and I don't mean in sexual/ romance way.

[ThreeF]

I also tend to look at it as a choice between letting what he wants be the important thing vs the "safer" route of having him keep taking it for the "good of the cause".

 

Yes, definitely, that too.

[Todrazok]

In my second playthrough the Epilogue mentioned many of the templars followed Cullen's example, and went on to join the seekers of truth. This was a really nice detail in my opinion, and another plus to picking templars over mages

 

Coming up with a set canon in my world state is gonna be tricky however... 

[SnakeCode]

Nothing. Like most major characters he has ridiculously thick plot armour. Bioware really should stop writing this kind of stuff in if it never makes an appearance outside of the codex and other media.

[Siha]

Was this retconned from DA:O? Alistair didn't take Lyrium, nor did the Warden if he taught her the Templar specialization.

I think Alistair stopped taking Lyrium early. He had not been a Templar for long anyway, so probably his addiction had not been as bad as Cullen's must have been.

[Parkimus]

He suffers from delyrium.

[Ryzaki]

I actually like what happens so *shrug* Oh well. May you get your drama elsewhere.

[Cerulione]

I think Alistair stopped taking Lyrium early. He had not been a Templar for long anyway, so probably his addiction had not been as bad as Cullen's must have been.

 

Alistair said that he never took Lyrium right? I remember he said that in-game. And he never took his Templar Vow.

Since Cullen also said that you only get your first phial when taking the vow, it's normal that Alistair had never actually taken it in DA:O

 

 

 

I actually like what happens so *shrug* Oh well. May you get your drama elsewhere.

 

Weirdly, Perseverance is drama enough already for me