265 réponses à ce sujet

[Vanth]

If one removes common sense, one can define anything they want as rape.

 

I think the definition of sex without explicit consent is clear enough, don't you? If you are not obtaining consent before have sex, you are a rapist. Quite simple really. 

[Angry_Elcor]

I think the definition of sex without explicit consent is clear enough, don't you? If you are not obtaining consent before have sex, you are a rapist. Quite simple really. 

 

You're claiming that a video game raped you because it didn't depict a scene in which your character overtly consents to sex. You can repeat a simplified definition of rape as often as you like. What happened to you was not rape. It was not sex. It was a video game. I would imagine people who have actually been raped would probably feel deeply offended at your trivialization of it. I don't get offended, but even I find it pretty annoying.

[HuldraDancer]

 

Well lurking mode switched off and abandoning thread once more it seems.

though it is nice to get to use this gif again.

[ThreeF]

 

Extra text bubble? No - I can't recall the wording, but it was something along the lines of "Can we talk in private?" Cassandra asks "How private?" and you (automatically) respond that there is a clearing nearby where we should meet. This goes to a cutscene where they read poetry to each other and have sex, but no control is given after the "Can we talk in private?" line. 

 

I am sure some of the other relationships will be the same.

 

I mean did you ever got something like this:

 

Spoiler

 

and this:

 

Spoiler

[Vanth]

You're claiming that a video game raped you because it didn't depict a scene in which your character overtly consents to sex. You can repeat a simplified definition of rape as often as you like. What happened to you was not rape. It was not sex. It was a video game. I would imagine people who have actually been raped would probably feel deeply offended at your trivialization of it. I don't get offended, but even I find it pretty annoying.

 

You keep saying "it is only a video game". Clearly that is obviously true and the things that are done to my character in the game are not the same as thing being done to me. But don't you think it is important to portray healthy relationships between consenting adults in our games? Especially when both the characters involved are supposed to be the good guys.

[AresKeith]

You keep saying "it is only a video game". Clearly that is obviously true and the things that are done to my character in the game are not the same as thing being done to me. But don't you think it is important to portray healthy relationships between consenting adults in our games? Especially when both the characters involved are supposed to be the good guys.

 

Umm obviously the Inquisitor consented to it, you just wanna refuse to acknowledge it

[Vanth]

I mean did you ever got something like this:

 

Spoiler

 

and this:

 

Spoiler

 

Yes, of course. It is implicit that you are having a romance and have the opportunity to stop it or break it off. And in order to initiate it you need to use the red heart choices. But that is not the same thing as consenting to sex. 

 

All they would need would be an extra conversation choice after the poetry reading where you obtain explicit consent for sex. 

[AresKeith]

Yes, of course. It is implicit that you are having a romance and have the opportunity to stop it or break it off. And in order to initiate it you need to use the red heart choices. But that is not the same thing as consenting to sex. 

 

All they would need would be an extra conversation choice after the poetry reading where you obtain explicit consent for sex. 

 

The Mass Effect games didn't that either, would you say the same thing about those romances?

[Vanth]

Umm obviously the Inquisitor consented to it, you just wanna refuse to acknowledge it

 

Where? Where was the consent? I am not seeing it. There was no mention of sex when I asked for a private conversation, and I don't think it is reasonable to expect all private conversations to lead to sex. 

[Vanth]

The Mass Effect games didn't that either, would you say the same thing about those romances?

 

I never followed any romances in ME, but if they didn't get consent, yes, it was rape. 

 

Look, I am not saying that this is something special to DA:I. In fact it is endemic in our society and even part of accepted literature. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't aspire to change it. We should be trying to empower people, not objectify them. 

[Angry_Elcor]

You keep saying "it is only a video game". Clearly that is obviously true and the things that are done to my character in the game are not the same as thing being done to me. But don't you think it is important to portray healthy relationships between consenting adults in our games? Especially when both the characters involved are supposed to be the good guys.

 

I don't think accusing people of rape is a healthy response to what is obviously a love story being told both on and off screen. Since there's no consent from either character depicted, who even raped who? Are you accusing Cassandra of rape? Are you accusing your own character? You accused me of being a rapist a few posts ago for pointing out that a game simulation doesn't count as rape, so I honestly don't think I really want to know the answer to these questions, anyway.

 

Maybe you should stop using the word "rape" frivolously. In any case, listening to you accuse fictional characters and myself of rape isn't actually all that funny, so I'm going to go find something else to do.

[GreyLycanTrope]

i haven't done them all to be honest. I was specifically thinking of Cassandra. I ask her if we can chat in private, control is entirely removed, and after a little poetry reading we have sex. There is absolutely no point where I was asked for consent. That is rape. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Never thought I'd see Cassandra accused of rape. 

 

The Mass Effect games didn't that either, would you say the same thing about those romances?

Well to be fair, the Mass Effect games gave you the option to break it off during the final night scene before they have sex. It just meant you were also no longer in a romance with them period because apparently to that team being in a relationship = having sex. 

[AresKeith]

I never followed any romances in ME, but if they didn't get consent, yes, it was rape. 

 

Look, I am not saying that this is something special to DA:I. In fact it is endemic in our society and even part of accepted literature. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't aspire to change it. We should be trying to empower people, not objectify them. 

 

[AresKeith]

Never thought I'd see Cassandra accused of rape. 

 

Well to be fair, the Mass Effect games gave you the option to break it off during the final night scene before they have sex. It just meant you were also no longer in a romance with them period because apparently to that team being in a relationship = having sex. 

 

You can do the same thing in this game

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You can do the same thing in this game

I know. I was just pointing out that you saying that the Mass Effect games having no option to consent was inaccurate. 

[ThreeF]

Yes, of course. It is implicit that you are having a romance and have the opportunity to stop it or break it off. And in order to initiate it you need to use the red heart choices. But that is not the same thing as consenting to sex.

For the purpose of the game it is, because anything else would be crass. I really would not want to have it spelled out to me in a very obvious way, it was a hint enough imo. I really don't see how it could be not clear where things are going.

 

 

relationship = having sex. 

This is a tricky situation, I see it more of you not wanting the same thing out of relationship that the other party wants. Wanting a different level/kind of intimacy can doom a relationship. It's completely normal if the other party choose to not continue a relationship in this situation.  The problem is that in these games sex seems to be the main goal (slightly less obvious with some of the romances in DAI, which is an improvement.)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This is a tricky situation, I see it more of you not wanting the same thing out of relationship that the other party wants. Wanting a different level of intimacy can doom a relationship. It's completely normal if the other party choose to not continue a relationship in this situation.  The problem is that in these games sex seems to be the main goal (slightly less obvious with some of the romances in DAI, which is an improvement.)

Hence my complaint. Until DAI sex was a mandatory part of every romance, with the exception of Sebastian due to him having taken a vow of celibacy, which made Bioware seem to imply that in order to be in a relationship, sex must be involved. 

[Vanth]

For the purpose of the game it is, because anything else would be crass. I really would not want to have it spelled out to me in a very obvious way, it was a hint enough imo. I really don't see how it could be not clear where things are going.

 

I disagree. It is not crass to ask someone for consent before having sex. And it is certainly not clear that (in this instance) asking for a private word would lead to sex with no ability to say yes or no. 

 

Of course, AresKeith is right when he says it is only a game. We shouldn't get worked up about a game (I am not Anita Sarkeesian), but I do still think it would be better with consent. In my game, I actually had to reload a save game (unfortunately a ways back) so that I could break of the relationship before the rape scene. 

[AresKeith]

I disagree. It is not crass to ask someone for consent before having sex. And it is certainly not clear that (in this instance) asking for a private word would lead to sex with no ability to say yes or no. 

 

Of course, AresKeith is right when he says it is only a game. We shouldn't get worked up about a game (I am not Anita Sarkeesian), but I do still think it would be better with consent. In my game, I actually had to reload a save game (unfortunately a ways back) so that I could break of the relationship before the rape scene. 

 

Umm I never said it was only a game, I just called you out on not seeing the hints and false accusing Cassandra for rape 

[ruggly]

What did I just walk in to?

 

[9TailsFox]

i haven't done them all to be honest. I was specifically thinking of Cassandra. I ask her if we can chat in private, control is entirely removed, and after a little poetry reading we have sex. There is absolutely no point where I was asked for consent. That is rape. 

 

I recommend you to romance 50 shades of  Iron Bull.

[ThreeF]

I disagree. It is not crass to ask someone for consent before having sex.

Depends on your definition of "asking" and "agreeing". Announcing "if you pick this option you will have sex with a character" is as clinical as reading a book on human reproduction.  Perhaps you have a relationship where everything is verbally asked for every single time, if it works for you that's fine, but other people have a different dynamic of reading each other's consent and permission, doesn't make it a rape.

[Dai Grepher]

Seems my guess was correct.

 

Vanth, I do agree that Cass' romance scene takes away player choice. I wish there were a way for the player to put off having sex with Cass until a later time.

 

However, if your or anyone else's Inquisitor had a problem with Cass wanting to have sex right then and there, they would have spoken up and Cass would have respected that. Certainly you know this, yes?

 

So while I agree that they took player choice from us, the Inquisitor character did in fact consent to sex with Cass off screen.

 

As for the other sex options with other characters, I read somewhere that the Inquisitor can tell Dorian that they should take things slow, and Dorian will respect that. However, in that case the game does not allow sex at all after that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If I recall correctly, this is how the LIs in DAI are in how sex is handled. 

 

Mandatory part of romance: 

Cassandra

Cullen

Sera

The Iron Bull

 

Voluntary part of romance: 

Dorian

Rainier(if not counting the fade to black)

 

Never brought up but implied:

Solas

 

Never brought up:

Josephine