436 réponses à ce sujet

[Lennard Testarossa]

If you have to go back to camp often to replenish your supplies and this annoys you, just turn down the difficulty.

[shadownian]

Poll Update

30 votes for healing fully restored like other DA games.

17 for leaving the game as is with potions

11 for bringing healing in as a specialty ie Spirit healer

4 i dont care votes

[b10d1v]

Part of the problem, b10d1v, is that spells no longer rely on spellpower which was removed, rather they now do a percentage multiplier of the weapon you're carrying and so because staffs have no where near the damage potential of melee weapons (for obvious reasons), they're only ever as powerful as the staff you're carrying.

 

In Origins you had Spellpower which could be augmented with weapons and spells which in turn would be as powerful as your spellpower stat was high. What this basically meant is that spells levelled up as you increased that particular stat where as in Inquisition, spells only level up as you obtain access to better weapons but your weapon damage is a fixed stat. Spellpower was increased by you increasing your magic stat so you could create some really powerful spells and do tremendous damage with your staff but at the expense of willpower, of you could build to spam spells with higher pools of willpower or take the middle ground. Again it was about presenting the player with freedom of choice that DAI has simply removed.

You are absolutely correct your magic attribute has no effect on damage spells, only staff damage is considered and this forces you to explore more and find materials, as the material used determines the type of spells and power, odd thing is you get to a point and new materials stop advancing they look different, but are just copies -likely an oversight.  In the previous games the staff had little effect except to amplify your will, so skill in the area mattered and you can see how this change generates some errors and inconsistencies.

[shadownian]

If you have to go back to camp often to replenish your supplies and this annoys you, just turn down the difficulty.

Another poor comment. Nobody is saying that the existing system doesnt work, even though it can be annoying at times.

What were saying is we dont like the freedom of choice taken away from us, along with a whole playstyle that alot of people enjoyed in the other 2 games.

Its about choice and alot of what DAI does further takes away choice. Maybe even more so than DA2.

[b10d1v]

The mods that provide healing, about 25% was my peak early in the game, are also inconsistent as you progress - not clear what's going on with material stats, but they need to be consistent. The other problems are that these type mods only help one individual and don't work on all enemies, unlike an area healing spell heals all.

 

So, suppose that the spirit shield can also provide healing, but doing so drains the shield faster.  And that revival has options to brings you back to full health, that would help for situations when you get killed immediately after being revived.

[shadownian]

Let me give you an example....

DAO-Had 10 mage skill "trees"

One of em...the Primal tree, had these spells...

Fire Flame Blast Flaming Weapons Fireball Inferno

Earth Rock Armor Stonefist Earthquake Petrify

Cold Winter's Grasp Frost Weapons Cone of Cold Blizzard

Lightning Lightning Shock Tempest Chain Lightning

 Do these look familiar? This one tree was taken and made into 3 for DAI.

Then they took part of one of the other trees..spirit...and made the 4th. So you basically have about 1 and a half trees worth of abilities in DAI compared to DAO.

This is what we mean by lack of choice.

Taking away healing just continues the trend of taking away freedom and choice from the player, all the while telling you how good that fact is. Well i dont buy it.

[Harvest_King]

At first I did miss healing, but as I progressed, I found it really wasn't needed. The amount of regeneration potions and regular potions needed was more than enough, the only reason I needed to go back to camp was to sell all the junk that I had picked up, clogging my inventory.

[ZipZap2000]

I disagree healing magic and out of combat regeneration is NOT needed to complete the game in any difficulty and if you fast travel much even after Skyhold you're doing something wrong. I havent fast traveled to a camp for potions since like level 6 or something on nightmare.

 

Healing magic and out of combat regeneration just takes away what is unique to this game compared to the previous ones, also barriers, potions, healing magic AND out of combat regeneration? Well hello 4 mages groups like all the time. 

 

Adding it as a choice might work but lets be reasonable here...who wouldn't take that choice when its obviously more powerful? If you have trouble with the game and think its too hard just tone down the difficulty.

 

How people can complain about the tactical aspect of the game and then ask for the ability to just faceroll it is beyond me. With 2 mages if you micromanage barrier usage its already possible to take close to 0 damage even from dragons. Now if you add healing magic to that well you might as well watch the game's story on youtube.

 

Whether it's needed or not to complete the game or not has nothing to do with the OP it's about how enjoyable the game is when you have to rely on potions that need to be crafted from specific locations and have to travel back and forth from there in an open world environment.

 

The rest of your post is just e-peen, 

[Nightdragon8]

If constant bitching is a barometer for how flawed something is, than this is one of the worst games ever made in history.

.... umm... no.... ME3 would have that hands down.... and would need over a year of complaints added to this currently to even match that level of complaining.....

[b10d1v]

I don't think it's worth to spend all this energy fighting the healing system, it's such a huge change and wont make any difference overall (a system for another system with all the pro and cons). I think it will be better to improve on things we have already like tactical camera and ai tactics. That really would impact the game overall, considering it is the less developed part of this game.

Its not a big change at all technically, just a parameter flag in the simplest case. I don't believe we talking about trading things off, but enhancing existing systems and providing options and there has been discussion on how to do this w/in the game framework.  

Tactical's problems are less design and more foundation areas that need to be firmed up; healing is a design issue.

Behavior modeling has its own issues and forums and takes different skill set. No resources lost there.

Bioware should do this as if falls to modders to create, consoles lose.

[b10d1v]

Let me give you an example....

DAO-Had 10 mage skill "trees"

One of em...the Primal tree, had these spells...

Fire Flame Blast Flaming Weapons Fireball Inferno

Earth Rock Armor Stonefist Earthquake Petrify

Cold Winter's Grasp Frost Weapons Cone of Cold Blizzard

Lightning Lightning Shock Tempest Chain Lightning

 Do these look familiar? This one tree was taken and made into 3 for DAI.

Then they took part of one of the other trees..spirit...and made the 4th. So you basically have about 1 and a half trees worth of abilities in DAI compared to DAO.

This is what we mean by lack of choice.

Taking away healing just continues the trend of taking away freedom and choice from the player, all the while telling you how good that fact is. Well i dont buy it.

And then there were combo spells winter's grasp and prison shattered most enemies, Tempest and blizzard combined, death cloud, hard to use most of the time with friendly damage on.  I did not like the tree system when they proposed it for DA2 and I don't like it any better now.

[Thibax]

BammBamm

I can play DAI with others classes, no problem. I like to create several kind of characters.

Warriors, rogues, mages, no matter if they are more offensive, more defensive, more support or a mix of all.

Mage was the class with most changes in DAI.

No nature damage at all. Spirit damage just with Necromancer spec. No healing. No more schools of magic, just the classic magical triangle of RPGs (ice/fire/thunder).

Without specs (remember just one we can take it) and spirit tree, in DAI we can just be an elementalist.

[Hexoduen]

and to say they are not unbalancing the game is a cheap excuse for healing. nobody said how they could do it just saying they should balance it out. by the way they did it with limited healing potions (you know, healing is still in the game), although hexoduen finds it funny its the way bioware controlled the healing issue. and while the willing to have heal spells is only just a matter of personal preference the adding of one of the most powerful mechanics in a existing and balanced gamemechanic is a real problem and not a matter of taste.

 

"unbalancing the game"? It's up to the game designers to make it balanced. To make healing spells work instead of simply removing them.

 

"healing is still in the game"? Well sure, let's try in DA4 and remove all but 1 damage spells from the mages - it's still in the game, right?

 

Again, let me be perfectly clear why I want healing spells back:

*Lore

*More options in combat

*More options in character build

[LoudAngryJerk]

i suspect they won't do this in single player, mostly because of the way class systems work, it would require a complete rebalance of how combat is done. at best they might add it to multiplayer though

 

myself, i'm on the hardest difficulty and i just finished act 2. i actually like the lack of actual healing magic, doesnt make it that hard for me

[TristynTrine]

Let me give you an example....

DAO-Had 10 mage skill "trees"

One of em...the Primal tree, had these spells...

Fire Flame Blast Flaming Weapons Fireball Inferno

Earth Rock Armor Stonefist Earthquake Petrify

Cold Winter's Grasp Frost Weapons Cone of Cold Blizzard

Lightning Lightning Shock Tempest Chain Lightning

 Do these look familiar? This one tree was taken and made into 3 for DAI.

Then they took part of one of the other trees..spirit...and made the 4th. So you basically have about 1 and a half trees worth of abilities in DAI compared to DAO.

This is what we mean by lack of choice.

Taking away healing just continues the trend of taking away freedom and choice from the player, all the while telling you how good that fact is. Well i dont buy it.

Exactly, we have barely any magic. Most of those spells... are spells we used to have, we didn't even get a fireball spell, the gall of them... and the specs are equally boring, rift mage is amusing chucking stone fists everywhere... But other than that, the specs bore me. Not to mention that most of the specs are just rehashes of the skills we used to have before they made us have barely any now...

[Fullmetall21]

The lore point is valid the choice point is not. Every single soul that plays this game on hard and above absolutely will take a healer in the group at all times. I'm obviously referring to the general population and not the guys that already do solo nightmare runs. If you have doubts this will happen take a look at the Classes & Builds forum and tell me that not so many people care about min/max their group.

 

Sure some people will not take the option but that is the minority. Most people would feel forced to drag around that one mage that can use healing magic or even worse spec all of them for that reason the same way almost everyone dragged Wynne everywhere in Origins. That's because lets face it healing is better and more powerful than barriers.

[Lady Mutare]

I am so tired of being told to turn down the game settings. What part of I want to play on casual with regens did you not understand?  I NEVEr said, "make everyone play the same as me, make them all play with regens" I said "Allow  me the option to play with heath regen". get over yourselves and let me play how I want to.

[hwlrmnky]

My last restart of the game I made an albino elf, because you know hair is too hard for Bioware..lol. And as much as I like him, I just so want to make him over as a mage, its just too bad the mage is so gimped options wise, but yet at the same time, overpowered. Its an odd combo.
 
My Albino Elf Archer.

Your elf looks good but that is "bald" not "albino." Maybe it is different in Thedas, I grant you, but the albinos I've met have hair and their eye color affected in a pronounced way.

[Harvest_King]

That skin color looks great on a dwarf with the skull face paint, if only dwarves could use magic......

[Blue_Shayde]

Let me give you an example....

DAO-Had 10 mage skill "trees"

One of em...the Primal tree, had these spells...

Fire Flame Blast Flaming Weapons Fireball Inferno

Earth Rock Armor Stonefist Earthquake Petrify

Cold Winter's Grasp Frost Weapons Cone of Cold Blizzard

Lightning Lightning Shock Tempest Chain Lightning

 Do these look familiar? This one tree was taken and made into 3 for DAI.

Then they took part of one of the other trees..spirit...and made the 4th. So you basically have about 1 and a half trees worth of abilities in DAI compared to DAO.

This is what we mean by lack of choice.

Taking away healing just continues the trend of taking away freedom and choice from the player, all the while telling you how good that fact is. Well i dont buy it.

 

And then there were combo spells winter's grasp and prison shattered most enemies, Tempest and blizzard combined, death cloud, hard to use most of the time with friendly damage on.  I did not like the tree system when they proposed it for DA2 and I don't like it any better now.

 

*in tears* This is what I've hated with each new DA game the most. More and more nerfed mages. I used to actually have power by the end of the game. And god yes, the combos you could do with your magic! Being a mage in DA was fun, which is something I don't get often in other games where I can play a mage.

[BammBamm]

Your opening statement is about as stupid a comment as I've ever seen. Nonetheless, i appreciate that there where issues with Healing Magic, the point people are making is that there are more elegant solutions to that problem than simply taking the entire thing out of the game, especially when a high proportion of your customer base didn't want it taken out in the first place and very much want it put back in so that they have the freedom to choose how they play the game they paid their hard earned money for. The bottom line is no one likes their freedom of choice being removed and that's applies to this game as much as it does any part of life.

 

its exactly the same thinking as saying, you dont have to use heal magic if you dont want to.

 

and yeah you bought a game for your hard earned money that made clear since a very long time: there will be no healing magic! so whats exactly the point?

 

freedom of choice and to force a developer for a prefered game mechanic is not the same. i wish myself there would be more choice in builds, especially because  the lack of weapon swap in combat for a view classes these choices are even more limited. mage is the only class that have a benefit from all trees, so even if it would be a matter of choice, the mage would be the last class where an overhaul is needed. but in reality its just a matter of a personal taste and a prefered gaming style and because of that people think every future rpg have to include this mechanic, no matter if its usefull or not. get used to it games evolve and change core mechanics, it happens all the time because life is no wishing well for personal preferences.

 

but hey, we got people who want bloodmagic, healing magic, no dragons, no enemies just story, no jumping, no fetch quests, no singing, just a reworked da:o, more difficulty, no difficulty, etc etc. bioware delete your ****** game and start from the scratch a new one, and this time please a game that satifies every fart players comes in mind and dont overestimate the ability of some players to get adapt to new things, maybe you should just release da:o again with another name, because it seems some people want exactly this

[Bladenite1481]

its exactly the same thinking as saying, you dont have to use heal magic if you dont want to.

 

and yeah you bought a game for your hard earned money that made clear since a very long time: there will be no healing magic! so whats exactly the point?

 

freedom of choice and to force a developer for a prefered game mechanic is not the same. i wish myself there would be more choice in builds, especially because  the lack of weapon swap in combat for a view classes these choices are even more limited. mage is the only class that have a benefit from all trees, so even if it would be a matter of choice, the mage would be the last class where an overhaul is needed. but in reality its just a matter of a personal taste and a prefered gaming style and because of that people think every future rpg have to include this mechanic, no matter if its usefull or not. get used to it games evolve and change core mechanics, it happens all the time because life is no wishing well for personal preferences.

Nothing about this new system is evolved. Its a series of borrowed tired mechanics ripped straight from a combination of other games and all without knowing the nuances behind those other games and why these mechanics were chosen in the first place. Its like tying a couple metal plates around your car with a piece of rope and calling it a tank. 

 

You like this system, or at the very least believe it to be some semblance of progress. Your opinion is not a universal one and sometimes a step back is the right choice. People are voicing their opinion in hopes the game would choose a different path. The pretense of difficulty or better tactics is ridiculous, Dark Souls has healing and it does difficulty just fine. Much better than DAI even comes close to. 

[BammBamm]

Nothing about this new system is evolved. Its a series of borrowed tired mechanics ripped straight from a combination of other games and all without knowing the nuances behind those other games and why these mechanics were chosen in the first place. Its like trying a couple metal plates around your car with a piece of rope and calling it a tank. 

 

You like this system, or at the very least believe it to be some semblance of progress. Your opinion is not a universal one and sometimes a step back is the right choice. People are voicing their opinion in hopes the game would choose a different path. The pretense of difficulty or better tactics is ridiculous, Dark Souls has healing and it does difficulty just fine. Much better than DAI even comes close to. 

 

i liked da:o and his system too because i can adapt to different game mechanics and take the game as what it is and not what i want it to be, and i dont think every developer has to please me in every aspect. as i said, i want more choices myself but i'm old enough to know that changing a given system is not so easy as some people believe....and much more important, will not happen anyway. so you can whine and flame but it will not chance anything, or you can enjoy whats given and next time inform yourself better about a product you will buy, because to expect my new washer will make coffee too because i like coffee is super stupid.

[Bladenite1481]

i liked da:o and his system too because i can adapt to different game mechanics and take the game as what it is and not what i want it to be, and i dont think every developer has to please me in every aspect. as i said, i want more choices myself but i'm old enough to know that changing a given system is not so easy as some people believe....and much more important, will not happen anyway. so you can whine and flame but it will not chance anything, or you can enjoy whats given and next time inform yourself better about a product you will buy, because to expect my new washer will make coffee too because i like coffee is super stupid.

Well if Maytag said their washing machine came with a coffee maker then I would be upset if it didn't make coffee. So maybe the fact that Bioware marketed DAI heavily towards getting the DAO players back has something to do with the vehement disapproval of many design choices. When you say "We are returning to Origins roots" and "This is a Made for PC game made by PC gamers" and you get something that looks very much like it was made for consoles right down to a very coincidentally perfectly numbered control set-up, then you get upset customers because they feel deceived. This is what happens afterwards. 

 

At best DAI has a bastardized version of DAO at it's combat roots and though I do not believe making the game easier for consoles is the prime reason for many gripes, I don't think their unilateral controls scheme worked well. 

 

If they are honest about the next game and say "Hey, its not a RPG, its an action/adventure with a fairly decent story" then they won't get as many of these posts. They won't sell as many games either though. 

[shadownian]

The lore point is valid the choice point is not. Every single soul that plays this game on hard and above absolutely will take a healer in the group at all times. I'm obviously referring to the general population and not the guys that already do solo nightmare runs. If you have doubts this will happen take a look at the Classes & Builds forum and tell me that not so many people care about min/max their group.

 

Sure some people will not take the option but that is the minority. Most people would feel forced to drag around that one mage that can use healing magic or even worse spec all of them for that reason the same way almost everyone dragged Wynne everywhere in Origins. That's because lets face it healing is better and more powerful than barriers.

I am so sick of hearing this argument from people about if there was healers we would be "forced to take them with us" bs. For one if potions supposedly are the same or work better than healing, then why would your play style change if healing is reintroduced? If you think potions are the better way to go then you would still stick with your potions. Secondly we are talking about making it an option for your main character alone. Nobody else. So if you personally dont choose a mage with healing, then guess what, there is no healing mage in your game at all. End of story.

You cant have this argument both ways....you cant say how much better this potion system is on one hand, then with the other say if healing magic was back you would feel "forced" to take it.

 

its exactly the same thinking as saying, you dont have to use heal magic if you dont want to.

 

and yeah you bought a game for your hard earned money that made clear since a very long time: there will be no healing magic! so whats exactly the point?

 

freedom of choice and to force a developer for a prefered game mechanic is not the same. i wish myself there would be more choice in builds, especially because  the lack of weapon swap in combat for a view classes these choices are even more limited. mage is the only class that have a benefit from all trees, so even if it would be a matter of choice, the mage would be the last class where an overhaul is needed. but in reality its just a matter of a personal taste and a prefered gaming style and because of that people think every future rpg have to include this mechanic, no matter if its usefull or not. get used to it games evolve and change core mechanics, it happens all the time because life is no wishing well for personal preferences.

 

but hey, we got people who want bloodmagic, healing magic, no dragons, no enemies just story, no jumping, no fetch quests, no singing, just a reworked da:o, more difficulty, no difficulty, etc etc. bioware delete your ****** game and start from the scratch a new one, and this time please a game that satifies every fart players comes in mind and dont overestimate the ability of some players to get adapt to new things, maybe you should just release da:o again with another name, because it seems some people want exactly this

You say we are trying to force a mechanic that we personally want on the developers. But this isnt a new thing. This has been around as long as Dragon Age has.

If this was a new series I dont think anyone would care about there being no healing for mages. We would just say thats how the game is and move on. But this franchise had started with healing magic and continued to have it in the second game. Were not forcing something just we want, were asking for what was taken from us back. You can try to excuse the fact that this games mechanic have been widdled down to almost nothing and say its ok and take it up the backside, but alot of us are just getting sick of it, and this is our line in the sand.

Well if Maytag said their washing machine came with a coffee maker then I would be upset if it didn't make coffee. So maybe the fact that Bioware marketed DAI heavily towards getting the DAO players back has something to do with the vehement disapproval of many design choices. When you say "We are returning to Origins roots" and "This is a Made for PC game made by PC gamers" and you get something that looks very much like it was made for consoles right down to a very coincidentally perfectly numbered control set-up, then you get upset customers because they feel deceived. This is what happens afterwards. 

 

At best DAI has a bastardized version of DAO at it's combat roots and though I do not believe making the game easier for consoles is the prime reason for many gripes, I don't think their unilateral controls scheme worked well. 

 

If they are honest about the next game and say "Hey, its not a RPG, its an action/adventure with a fairly decent story" then they won't get as many of these posts. They won't sell as many games either though. 

Exactly. Bioware keeps taking more and more rpg elements out of its rpg franchises and the stupid sheeple keep eating it up and saying yum yum yum, give me more.

Its not about personal preference, hell in a way its not even about personal choice, its about our favorite games being bastardized and stripped till nothing of its original self remains. I mean how much do they have to take away before people start complaining? How little effort do they have to put into what they supposedly put back into the game do they have to half a@@ before we call them out on it? Theres no way you can look at the mage class from DAO to DAI and think it has more, or better skills. Its not possible. Theres no way you can say how they stripped away alot of your control over your character is a good thing. Theres no way you can be ok with constantly having armor and weapon options taken away from you in favor of barbie doll-esque type gameplay.

Seriously how much do they have to do in order to get a response from people?? Its almost like they are trying to push that envelope with this game just to see how much they could get away with for ME4, and by what I see thats pretty damn alot so far.

/rant off