its too late to add it back now the game is release already.
You have heard of DLC, updates and patches have you not? But that is beside the point, there are so many open issues with the game mechanics -if/when they fix all the "challenges" it will likely play very differently and likely look very different especially where characters are concerned. You must remember that the game was released with an incomplete RPG engine.
With all the mixed opinions I wonder if Bioware should do an official poll.
With all the mixed opinions I wonder if Bioware should do an official poll.
This would be good, but thing is alot of debate and alot of points have been made in this thread, and not alot of gamers will ever bother to read it.
And i hate to say it but gamers today are stupid and fanboys. And if Bioware says its a good thing that healing isnt in the game, alot of people will agree because its Bioware. They could poop on a plate and call it ME4 and people would eat it up. After talking with people here in the forums i hate to say it but I have sincerely come to that conclusion. People will make any excuse and justify any change, as long as its new and shiny and the game developers tell them how great it is.
Sure you will still get alot of people who will agree that healing should be put back, but most wont because Bioware says so.
Not to mention that even if it was theres still so much wrong with the game that will never get fixed.
I'll agree that healing isn't needed, and still not be a fanboy, but what my fanboy sense does tell me, is that even though it isn't needed, it brakes the lore to simply have removed it, mages had healing in DA:O and DA:2, and somehow mages can't heal anymore, after 10 measly game world years. What's more important, though, is the simplified behavior system. Bring back "Use X when (=><) X% health" or "Use X when at (=><) X% mana" and healing definitely won't be needed, as followers would be smart enough to use regeneration, or lyrium potions themselves.
I'll agree that healing isn't needed, and still not be a fanboy, but what my fanboy sense does tell me, is that even though it isn't needed, it brakes the lore to simply have removed it, mages had healing in DA:O and DA:2, and somehow mages can't heal anymore, after 10 measly game world years. What's more important, though, is the simplified behavior system. Bring back "Use X when (=><) X% health" or "Use X when at (=><) X% mana" and healing definitely won't be needed, as followers would be smart enough to use regeneration, or lyrium potions themselves.
Like has been said a number of times, though i dont expect people to go back and read all that was typed....
Its not a matter of the idea that the potions doesnt work. We know it works.
Its a matter of play style, choice, and having things taken away from our favorite games time and time again.
Alot of people enjoyed playing a healing mage, and to have that choice taken away is rediculous, especially in the third game into the series.
Just like having your attribute points all of a sudden decided by the computer might work, but is it preferable?? Hells no.
Just add new dlc char with heal specialization - done, but that would ruine the balance completely. Barrier + guard + heal is too easy.
I agree, it could be done as easy as adding a DLC char with healing spec., but yes if done wrong it would unbalance the game (so don't do it wrong).
We've replaced the healing spell system with a protection/potion system, trading one thing for the other - why not design it with the possibility of both? Not making healing spells needed, but making them an option. Not making barriers needed, but making them an option. As it is now, we don't have a whole lot of options in combat, so why remove healing spells instead of redesigning them?
Personally, I find combat lacking strategy and different options - mages feel boring, how'd that happen in Dragon Age?
The removal of healing spells does not in any way reflect the lore of Origins and DA2. In Origins and DA2 we learn that healing magic exists, that it is highly desired, and that it is the most commonly accepted magic in Thedas. Now all of the sudden it's gone *poof* written out of the story, and it's been replaced by some strange phenomena limiting the number of potions people can carry.
Lore? Not in any way
We don't learn that it's highly desired or commonly taught. And we certainly aren't told Circles are medical schools. Duncan wants Circle mages for them to blow stuff up, not heal. Almost every mage we meet can't heal. To be able to heal is clearly rare.
Cool picture!
Now then, I didn't write it was commonly taught, I wrote it was "the most commonly accepted magic", as in people accepting spirit healers, as opposed to blood magic.
Neither did I write that Circles are medical schools, I wrote that healing magic is "highly desired", as in mages seeking the ability to heal wounds, and bring people back from the brink of death - which is why, as we learn in Dragon Age, the Circle desires healers in their ranks.
Rare as they may be, they exist, and their total removal while adding a no. limit to max potions (however empty your inventory is) does not make sense lore-wise.
You are absolutely correct your magic attribute has no effect on damage spells, only staff damage is considered and this forces you to explore more and find materials, as the material used determines the type of spells and power, odd thing is you get to a point and new materials stop advancing they look different, but are just copies -likely an oversight. In the previous games the staff had little effect except to amplify your will, so skill in the area mattered and you can see how this change generates some errors and inconsistencies.
The bolded bit is the key point in this entire thing. "Forces you to explore more". Forces you to farm materials which is the single most hated aspect of this game. In Origins, Staff damage had a minimum damage stat and a multiplier that was based upon your spellpower rather than being a fixed damage stat, so people who wanted to specialise in raw staff and spell damage could increase their Magic stat at the expense of Willpower. It meant you could do two playthroughs with two identical weapons having different damage stats, depending upon how you'd specialised. If Inquisition had stats you could increase and had spell power then the material for crafted stats would determine the base damage stat of the staff whilst still allowing spell power (via magic) to determine the multiplier.
Yes it's more complicated but it offers more freedom of choice for the player to play the kind of Mage they want to as well as increasing re-playability because you could experiment with different styles of the same class.
Let me give you an example....
DAO-Had 10 mage skill "trees"
One of em...the Primal tree, had these spells...
Fire
Flame Blast
Flaming Weapons
Fireball
Inferno
Earth
Rock Armor
Stonefist
Earthquake
Petrify
Cold
Winter's Grasp
Frost Weapons
Cone of Cold
Blizzard
Lightning
Lightning
Shock
Tempest
Chain Lightning
Do these look familiar? This one tree was taken and made into 3 for DAI.
Then they took part of one of the other trees..spirit...and made the 4th. So you basically have about 1 and a half trees worth of abilities in DAI compared to DAO.
This is what we mean by lack of choice.
Taking away healing just continues the trend of taking away freedom and choice from the player, all the while telling you how good that fact is. Well i dont buy it.
Elemental weapons are no longer needed with the adoption of Runes which I think is a good thing, nor is Rock Armour which is replaced by Barrier (for those arguing damage mitigation has replaced Healing, Origins had Damage Mitigation and Healing which every class had access to via potions and salves). I do miss the whole Palpatine lightning hands and the other cone effect spells and Fireball was just great, making you feel really powerful as a Mage with it sending enemies flying in all directions because of the blast. The biggest joke is going from Inferno to Immolate. It's like going from a Nuclear firestorm to a box of matches...
Let's be honest, this thread is no longer just about the restoration of Healing Magic, the more we've delved in to things the more its become apparent that Bioware massive dumbed down magic to the point of uselessness (unless you go KE and then you're a God). Magic needs to be looked at and compared to previous games, it needs to be rebalanced with new spells, healing restored and magic in general made to feel powerful again. They need to take a look at their animations because if their idea of visceral combat is someone having an rubber band attached to their back (Static Cage - rubbish spell) then they're having a laugh. Mage players need more than simply Knight Enchanter option if they want to feel powerful. If they want to play Gandalf rather than Darth Vader then they should have that freedom to do so. Please Bioware, listen to your customers. Magic sucks Monkey bollocks in this game. Get it fixed, please.
This would be good, but thing is alot of debate and alot of points have been made in this thread, and not alot of gamers will ever bother to read it.
And i hate to say it but gamers today are stupid and fanboys. And if Bioware says its a good thing that healing isnt in the game, alot of people will agree because its Bioware. They could poop on a plate and call it ME4 and people would eat it up. After talking with people here in the forums i hate to say it but I have sincerely come to that conclusion. People will make any excuse and justify any change, as long as its new and shiny and the game developers tell them how great it is.
Sure you will still get alot of people who will agree that healing should be put back, but most wont because Bioware says so.
Not to mention that even if it was theres still so much wrong with the game that will never get fixed.
And it has nothing to do with the fact that protecting your health is now a proactive effort, rather than reactive right? That it's more of a tactical consideration on how to do it rather than just making sure you brought a healer with you.
Not that I wouldn't make any changes to the current system. Rock armor should just fill your guard, rather than adding a small amount of armor, for instance.
And it has nothing to do with the fact that protecting your health is now a proactive effort, rather than reactive right? That it's more of a tactical consideration on how to do it rather than just making sure you brought a healer with you.
Not that I wouldn't make any changes to the current system. Rock armor should just fill your guard, rather than adding a small amount of armor, for instance.
Personally i find this to be a very lame argument, that sounds more like corporate propaganda than anything else. No offense.
How exactly is a barrier more tactical? So instead of saying, hmm im low on health I should heal, you now say, hmm i dont want to be low on health let me put my shield up. Its not a matter of tactics, just when you perform the action. Either you cast a spell before you start fighting, or after you start fighting. Theres nothing tactical about it. At least with a healing mage its a whole play style choice and a way to roleplay the character. Being able to throw barriers around wont change how you play your character.
Theres nothing tactical about it. At least with a healing mage its a whole play style choice and a way to roleplay the character. Being able to throw barriers around wont change how you play your character.
So, I'm a barrier mage is not a valid playstyle choice?
And throwing up ice walls to protect your friends? Placing magical rune traps for the same? Right, that's not more tactical and better than just hitting "heal" when someone goes low on health.
Good to know you have all that "role-playing" down.
Like it or not, protecting yourself is now proactive and more complicated than a simple healing spell. It's one of the few things that was not dumbed down for this game and you're hating on it because it took you out of your comfort zone. Well done.
So, I'm a barrier mage is not a valid playstyle choice?
And throwing up ice walls to protect your friends? Placing magical rune traps for the same? Right, that's not more tactical and better than just hitting "heal" when someone goes low on health.
Good to know you have all that "role-playing" down.
Like it or not, protecting yourself is now proactive and more complicated than a simple healing spell. It's one of the few things that was not dumbed down for this game and you're hating on it because it took you out of your comfort zone. Well done.
A barrier mage will not change the way you play out your character choices in game. Thats what I meant by role playing your character.
Also placing glyphs on the ground and things like that have been in Dragon Age all long and is nothing new. And they were available right along with healing and there was never an issue.
Besides why do people like yourself insist on telling me and others like me how to play the game. Im not asking that your barriers be taken away, im not asking that your potions be taken away.
But what if they were, you might get upset right. What if something I or others said here got your barrier abilities taken out of the game, you would be upset right??
And thats after just a short time of playing this game...
Now imagine how people who play as healers feel after doing it for 2 games already for multiple playthrus. Were pissed. And rightfully so.
Have your barriers, play "proactive" if you want, but dont stop me from having my play style of choice as well.
And it has nothing to do with the fact that protecting your health is now a proactive effort, rather than reactive right? That it's more of a tactical consideration on how to do it rather than just making sure you brought a healer with you.
Not that I wouldn't make any changes to the current system. Rock armor should just fill your guard, rather than adding a small amount of armor, for instance.
I'd still argue that we would have more tactical consideration if we had both the proactive and reactive options. At the moment we've just switched one system for the other, why not design it for both? Not that both would be needed, but that both would be possible.
As I've stated earlier I loved how we could in previous Bioware games such as BG and NWN choose if we wanted to rely primarily on potions and/or protection and/or healing spells, and/or buffs, etc. - that's true RPG right there, choices and options.
Hex is my new best friend :-)
Straw poll...
56 votes to have healing back
26 for staying with potions
7 dont care
You have heard of DLC, updates and patches have you not? But that is beside the point, there are so many open issues with the game mechanics -if/when they fix all the "challenges" it will likely play very differently and likely look very different especially where characters are concerned. You must remember that the game was released with an incomplete RPG engine.
it not being complete is an opinion unless said by the is pure speculation go ahead get your hopes up on something that wont happen.
go ahead get your hopes up on something that wont happen.
Well, a lot of people 'knew' we wouldn't get an extended ending for ME3, and a lot of people 'knew' we wouldn't be able to respec. companions in DA2...
We have no idea what the future holds for DLCs and expansions, heck we might even get a new specialization we've never heard of 
Well, a lot of people 'knew' we wouldn't get an extended ending for ME3, and a lot of people 'knew' we wouldn't be able to respec. companions in DA2...
We have no idea what the future holds for DLCs and expansions, heck we might even get a new specialization we've never heard of
i dont see happen but i would be happy if it did but the chances happening are low healing , would make it beyond easy cause barrier in guard on hit gear along with healing in potions in aoe healing and healing potions it be impossible to die it be a cake walk some classes already make it a cake already ,also if they add a healing companion people will complain they are forced to take them or become a healer like they did with da2 with anders.
I still want someone to explain why we can revive but not heal. 
Shadow, Hex, I love you both. You understand what is happening to mages with every new DA game. 
i dont see happen but i would be happy if it did but the chances happening are low healing , would make it beyond easy cause barrier in guard on hit gear along with healing in potions in aoe healing and healing potions it be impossible to die it be a cake walk some classes already make it a cake already ,also if they add a healing companion people will complain they are forced to take them or become a healer like they did with da2 with anders.
Origins had healing magic and damage mitigation by way of both Rock Armour (magic and salves), Heroric Defence, Heoric Aura, Arcane Shield and the Glyph of Warding and by no means was any character on any playthrough even remotely god-like in their abilities nor was it a walk in the park. It was, in fact, a harder game than Inquisition is. The entire argument of not having healing magic in DAI because it has damage mitigation is preposterous. There really is no reason not to reintroduce it if it's balanced correctly.
people will complain they are forced to take them or become a healer like they did with da2 with anders.
I agree with this, which is why it makes sense that Bioware tried a new system. However, if healing spells were re-introduced by not just copy/pasting the spells from Origins and DA2 (as to avoid unlimited spam-healer) but balancing the new ones for Inquisition, it should be possible.
Say that in a DLC we get a new companion who's a spirit healer. IMO it should be balanced so that there is a downside to this healer, meaning not everyone would bring this person along, either due to weak dmg output, high mana-cost etc.
Bringing a healer should be a choice, not a necessity, that's how I hope it'll be 
I have to travel for a few months (offline) so thx for the discussions, looking forward to see how Inquisition plays when I get back 
I'd still argue that we would have more tactical consideration if we had both the proactive and reactive options. At the moment we've just switched one system for the other, why not design it for both? Not that both would be needed, but that both would be possible.
As I've stated earlier I loved how we could in previous Bioware games such as BG and NWN choose if we wanted to rely primarily on potions and/or protection and/or healing spells, and/or buffs, etc. - that's true RPG right there, choices and options.
I agree, under the condition that the healing is well designed and not fundamentally easier than the other options. That's the whole reason why the defensive options in Origins were rarely used, they simply were not convenient and useful enough.
Would also like to point out that there IS actually healing in DA:I under the form of Healing Mist grenades. as well as regeneration potions, and there's the Knight Enchanter. It's harder to pull off, but it's not entirely missing.
Personally i find this to be a very lame argument, that sounds more like corporate propaganda than anything else. No offense.
How exactly is a barrier more tactical? So instead of saying, hmm im low on health I should heal, you now say, hmm i dont want to be low on health let me put my shield up. Its not a matter of tactics, just when you perform the action. Either you cast a spell before you start fighting, or after you start fighting. Theres nothing tactical about it. At least with a healing mage its a whole play style choice and a way to roleplay the character. Being able to throw barriers around wont change how you play your character.
when you dont see the difference between a short timed invulnerabilty and a heal i understamd that you dont get whats the problem with it 
Retour en haut
