436 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

It's weird when people want mechanics (a healing spell tied to mana) from other games. I mean, the game is balanced around this idea of potions and healing mists + special statuses granted by weapons.

There's a difference between clumsy, flawed mechanics and mechanics that may not feel good/be ideal, but are balanced around the game.

So you're basically asking for a wholly different game. Also, potions are not responsible for doing drudgery in this game, you are so wrong there!

 

I am not saying we need healing spells, the game balance is fine as it is... BUT ... my Warden was a mage and spirit healer, my Champion was a mage and spirit healer and my Inquisitor is a mage... who can't heal. Even the mages helping out the wounded can heal. Just Vivi, Solas, Dorian and me can't? That's just weird. Healing magic is part of the Dragon Age lore and I kind of miss it for story purposes.

 

I run my party with two mages, it's rare that someone even takes damage and the few scratches are healed right up through kills. So yeah, healing magic would be OP... but that doesn't mean BioWare had to cut it out. It's too late now to change but I don't see why it was necessary to remove an entire mage discipline if there are other options to prevent exploits.

[chrcoluk]

but in easy and normal mode you hardly need to heal yourself

Really?

 

In early game I was really struggling, often my warrior was the only survivor in battles as everyone else just died way too easy.

 

Late game is different I agree, but early game when you weak the lack of outsid ebattle healing is touch.

 

With that said tho I think adding it now would be a huge balance shift so I am not sure where I stand.

 

What I found myself doing early game was using regen potions to heal in between fights if my health was too low. Remember 20 of thos ecan be carried on the parrty no top of the normal health potions.  I never ran out of elfroot.

[THE_ANGRY_GAMER]

You guys do remember that healing magic in-lore is described more like surgery than in-combat healing, right? It was described that way in the Codex in Origins, it's described like that in the novels. That's why the Spirit Healer spec is such a big deal - they CAN heal in combat. It's what made Wynne a respected mage. It was in-combat healing that any mage could learn that didn't make sense from a Lore perspective - going via Lore, the only healers we should have had were Anders and Wynne. If anything, Inquisition's approach is closer to the Lore. Plus, y'know, potions are alchemy using herbs that are inherently magical, not magic in and of itself.

 

Yes, it's annoying that Spirit Healer is no longer a spec, but in a game designed around the assumption of a definite maximum amount of hitpoints a character can have (can someone find the explanation the Patrick Weekes gave? I think it was him) rather than a theoretically infinite reserve, it'd be incredibly broken. (actually, the fact that Knight-Enchanters can replenish their barrier is one of the reasons they're broken)

[saladinbob]

Look, the situation is based around the casual gamer. Not you college students with consoles and hours on end to play. I'm talking about the guy who has a wife, who has kids and who doesn't have a lot of time to play and wants to spend that time you know, playing. This isn't limited to me, the DA:I forums are packed full of people complaining about fetch quests and fast travel to camps to heal up. The reason for this is because Bioware did not implement the design well. It's made problematic because of several issues:

 

1. The removal of healing magic.

2. The removal of out of combat healing.

3. The removal of Healing potions from vendors.

4. The limitation of Healing potions to a maximum of twelve.

 

Take anyone of these issues on its own and the system works as intended. Take them all and it breaks down. You can't heal your party with magic, you can't heal automatically when you're out of combat, you can't go and buy potions and your limited to such a small amount that you have to rely on fast travel to heal and fetch quests for alchemical ingredients not only for the potions themselves but also to upgrade them as you get deeper in to the game otherwise they become unviable. Barrier is a nice idea but again is badly implemented because of its small area of effect meaning you have to group up your team in order to cast it on everyone which in turn  is made exceedingly problematic because of the issues surrounding tactics and removal of the select all party members function that was in Origins (I only played DA2 once and disliked it so I can't remember if it was in that game as well, sorry). 

 

Inquisition is suffering from a series of cascading problems. It's a house of cards that had one of its pillars removed and everything else collapsed around it. Make Healing magic a specialisation only available to one companion and your character. You don't want to use it, don't specialise in it or take that companion with you. Re-introduce out-of-combat healing and make it able to be turned off. If you don't want to use it, then turn it off. Increase the number of potions that can be carried to 99 again. Want a challenge? Then carry 12 potions instead. Restore potions to vendors so they can be bought. Want to craft them then go farming to your hearts content. Any one of these things reintroduced will increase player choice and keep customers happy. It will cater not only to the 20 year old student with his X-box one but also the 45 year old guy with a wife, three kids and a mortgage who plays a couple of hours a week on the family PC. Don't penalise everyone simply because a few people decided to beat the game in their own creative way.

[In Exile]

Spam BARRIER. yes a brilliant idea (sarcastic here). Poorly implemented, though, Three mages in a party?.. they all spam BARRIER at the same time... yes brilliant combat AI too.

Mike Laidlaw said it well in a video. Basically, players found an exploit in DA:O, that using four mages with healing magic in your team, you had yourself a perpetual healing machine. It could defeat any enemy. Very unbalanced combat . To avoid this in DAI, Bioware implemented the current version as a "balanced combat system".

Then there is the Dragon Age Lore of mages with Healing magic. Canon fact! But, I suppose, in the Bioware Grand Scheme of things, it's only a bothersome fact, easily ignored.

You only needed one mage for infinite health and mana - a blood mage spirit healer. You then had infinite casting pools (from HP that you restored by stealing health from allies) and infinite HP (because your infinite casting pool meant infinite healing for the other 3 characters).

[StrangeStrategy]

No, they're not going to do this. Use potions, Heal on kill enhancements, barriers and guards. If you suck and you don't know how to use barriers/guards/stealth at the right time you're going to need to go back to camp and start over. Tough.

 

Having a healing spec would suck. Creation is already the "support" tree, adding another one would suck.

 

Edit: Did you really say they should only put the healing tree (if it were to exist, which it won't) on Solas only? Then people would feel compelled to use Solas instead of Dorian/Vivienne. Bad. It'd be like Anders being the only healer again, and Aveline the only real tank.

[FMultimedia]

For the public you're referring to, please play the appropriate difficulty level.

 

I have a spouse, work 10 hours a day, have two dogs and two cats who I personally care for (my spouse works longer hours than I do). When I play the game, I hardly ever have to go back for supplies in the camp, so I don't feel frustrated. I run with one mage, Blackwall, Iron Bull and Cole most of the time, and I tell you, I don't even bother raising barriers 80% of the time because the Warrior guard / threat / taunt does everything for me.Only thing I have to worry about is running away with my mage once in a while - literally, that's all. Barriers, only in boss fights usually.

 

That said, I can see why you are frustrated and I respect that. You like the Healing mechanics, you love the Healing theme. I find it pretty cool myself - Wynn and Anders were in both of my first run plays in the other DAs.

 

But I agree with two things said over and over again in this thread: 1) healing magic (or any other kind of out of battle healing) is really not "necessary", as long as you learn how to use the new mechanics; 2) the damage prevention mechanics have a much more challenging feel and requires finer control - you can't play "sloppy" and then heal everyone up, the good playing has to go from the beginning of the fight. PLEASE, I am NOT implying you are a lousy player, only that I find the new mechanics more challenging and therefore rewarding.

 

If you are having as much trouble as you make it sound, my bets are that you are either: playing a difficulty higher than you're supposed to in order to have fun; or or have a party make up that does not put up good survival skills; or you are missing some very important warrior abilities - for me, when I leveled Warcry and Challenge (and their upgrades), it was like breaking an invisible threshold that put everything into place. When you get Charging Bull and/or Body Guard, it becomes even better. Naturally, having control abilities also help a lot - the mage Ice tree, War Horn, Knockout Powder, etc.

[shadownian]

idk if this was said but this brings me back to the this pet peeve i have with bioware games.

 

They have this tendency to make a world where everything works and makes sense, then they rip things out of it or make changes that make absolutely no sense in the world they are set in, mostly for the sake of "streamlining" but thats another rant all together.

 

In Mass Effect 1 you had everyone wearing armor suits. As you should, your in a battle situation, you should be wearing your armor right. Makes sense.

Mas Effect 2, armor smarmor. We want everyone to run around wearing next to nothing or skin tight latex...yaaaa. Who cares if it makes no sense. But we'll leave you with your armor because, well we cant strip out all the rpg elements...lol.

 

Mass Effect 1, guns had evolved beyond needing bullets/cartidges. Mass Effect 2, we want our clips back. Why, who cares. Makes no sense technology wise to take steps back but again, who cares right.

 

Now in Dragon Age you went from a world that had healing magic. It made sense. Instead of mages always being those people you had to watch out for cause they could blow something up or be possessed by demons, they were also the healers. The ones you looked to to get the soldiers back on their feet during wars. It was their way to show the world that magic could be a benefit to the world not just a burden. It was part of this great duality aspect of the mages. Something they could show to people to help trust them more.

 

Now we go to using potions again, as if healing magic never existed. Now mages only have this negative aspect to them. They are only the dangerous one, never the savior. Oh of course except when the writers forget the fact that healing magic has been pulled from the game and lore and write into the cutscenes about mages using their magic to heal. (like when you meet the chantry lady in the Hinterlands for the first time. Shes comforting a soldier trying to get him to allow the mage to heal him "with his magic")

 

Its like making a movie thats a huge hit, say star wars, then when making the sequel turning around and saying, "Hmmm...you know what, i dont think the whole space ships thing works any more, ya lets take that part out."  It makes no sense!!

 

Not to mention it basically kills the mage for alot of players like myself that preferred to play the class as a healer first an an offensive class second.

 

 

BIOWARE STOP CHANGING THE DAMN WORLD AND LORE OF YOUR GAMES!!!!!

 

Sheesh.

[Mirth]

While some of you may enjoy romp and frolicking across the beautiful landscape, stopping to pick every flower you see...I'm not one of those people.  Nor do I enjoy the clunky Tac Cam interface.  "fighting" the camera and not the enemies.  I don't want to micromanage my idiot companions every step of the fight.

 

IF you play in real-time you WILL need to make frequent potion runs.  Period, end of story.  No pause button, to tac-cam, real time.  Even in EASY mode, you're crew will occasionally take a beating. 

IF you enjoy the tactical aspect, micromanaging every step of the fight, then no, you likely wont need to refill potions very often, as Barrier is completely OP in this situation.

 

So we really have a battle between two various modes of play.  Tactical vrs Real-Time.

We have the more traditional healing:  Spirit Healing, which is reactive.  Meaning you heal when you take damage.

In DA:I we have the new Barrier system, which is essentially 'pro-active'.  You apply the buff before taking damage to prevent the damage.

Each is good, each is different.  As are the play styles.

Tactical play benefits enormously from proactive barriers, and makes that style of gameplay easier once you understand the mechanics a bit.

 

Real-time benefits more from reactive healing.  Things tend to get crazy and chaotic in real-time.  Mages and rogues running up to melee range and all.  Reactive healing gives this style of gameplay much needed breathing room.

 

Not to mention IT's IN THE LORE... and the past 2 games. (just saying)

 

Why not have BOTH?  Let players play the way they want to?

[shadownian]

Oh totally off topic but btw in case anyone doesnt know...pf at least is getting an update now. Just to mention :-)

[shadownian]

Oh totally off topic but btw in case anyone doesnt know...pf at least is getting an update now. Just to mention :-)

Opps...meant pc not pf lol

[FMultimedia]

While some of you may enjoy romp and frolicking across the beautiful landscape, stopping to pick every flower you see...I'm not one of those people.  Nor do I enjoy the clunky Tac Cam interface.  "fighting" the camera and not the enemies.  I don't want to micromanage my idiot companions every step of the fight.
 
IF you play in real-time you WILL need to make frequent potion runs.  Period, end of story.  No pause button, to tac-cam, real time.  Even in EASY mode, you're crew will occasionally take a beating. 
IF you enjoy the tactical aspect, micromanaging every step of the fight, then no, you likely wont need to refill potions very often, as Barrier is completely OP in this situation.
 
So we really have a battle between two various modes of play.  Tactical vrs Real-Time.

We have the more traditional healing:  Spirit Healing, which is reactive.  Meaning you heal when you take damage.

In DA:I we have the new Barrier system, which is essentially 'pro-active'.  You apply the buff before taking damage to prevent the damage.

Each is good, each is different.  As are the play styles.

Tactical play benefits enormously from proactive barriers, and makes that style of gameplay easier once you understand the mechanics a bit.
 
Real-time benefits more from reactive healing.  Things tend to get crazy and chaotic in real-time.  Mages and rogues running up to melee range and all.  Reactive healing gives this style of gameplay much needed breathing room.
 
Not to mention IT's IN THE LORE... and the past 2 games. (just saying)
 
Why not have BOTH?  Let players play the way they want to?

I support you guys 100% on the lore issue.

But what you say is not true. I play on hard only, and I only turn tactical camera on boss fights. I hardly ever use more than half my potions before getting to a camp.

[ashwind]

IF you play in real-time you WILL need to make frequent potion runs.  Period, end of story.  No pause button, to tac-cam, real time.  Even in EASY mode, you're crew will occasionally take a beating. 

 

 

Not true. I play exclusively real-time on Normal mode mostly and currently Hard in a second play through. Never need to make frequent potions runs. At the beginning of the game, some encounters are tougher but mostly is due to me going in not knowing what to expect. Once the element of surprise is gone, well 

[shadownian]

I support you guys 100% on the lore issue.

But what you say is not true. I play on hard only, and I only turn tactical camera on boss fights. I hardly ever use more than half my potions before getting to a camp.

The thing that bites most people is not so much that the potion system doesnt work, even if the whole picking flowers thing is boring as sin, just that we already played 2 games in the series and healing magic was part of the lore and the world. To all of a sudden take it out, like I said before, is like stripping away something that was an integral part of the world, lore and story. It just makes no sense to take it out, especially in the third game in.

 

They should make healing another specialization. That way it will still fit with the lore and those who want to stick with potions or persue other avenues still can, but you can also allow those who like to be the healer of the group to play the way they want to as well. And you would still have people needing to collect items and make potions for however long till they opened up the specialization. So there wont be people complaining that those who pick the mage get some sort of special treatment or easy mode because they chose mage and those who didnt get left out. You could make it a choice, you could have to make a decision where the potion guy gets upset about this new person going around trying to heal people, then you as the leader have to make the decision to either keep the mage and gain the healing ability or keep the potion maker and keep using potions to heal. Something like that might work and still keep the lore intact from previous games.

[aphelion4]

I fail to see how the removal of healing had anything to do with tactical gameplay when Guard and Barrier spam just replaced it. Hell, a Champion and Knight Enchanter never dies and then there's the masterwork material that adds Guard on hit. Nightmare is still a joke that can be completed with ease.

 

Also why do people think ingesting some "potion" for healing is more "realistic" than using Magic to heal? Why are potions in and healing spells are out? Potions can mend bone and gashes but healing spells can't? HAH. Anyway I'm more sad that the removal of healing magic and neutering of magic in DA2/DA:I removed a sub class to Mages, who now seem to be pushed into being just another boring damage class like Rogues with one or two support skills. And then they gave the few crowd control and buff abilities they had to Rogues and Warriors, so the only thing Mages have going for them is the Barrier gimmick and occasional Ice Wall.

[Blue_Shayde]

Give me back my healing mages. In fact, stop stripping down mages with every game.

 

In DA 4, mages will just be people with sticks. No more magic. Because...mages don't NEED a variety of magic, apparently.

 

 

Mike Laidlaw said it well in a video. Basically, players found an exploit in DA:O, that using four mages with healing magic in your team, you had yourself a perpetual healing machine. It could defeat any enemy. Very unbalanced combat . To avoid this in DAI, Bioware implemented the current version as a "balanced combat system".

Oh bull. Players will always find an exploit in some way. If they choose to do so, its their gameplay experience they are ruining. Not mine. Give me back my healer.

[ArvinDulku]

Only people I slighly feel bad for are people who LIKE playing Healers.

 

Them got their fave gameplay style gimped, so fair lay at the annoyance.

 

Those going on about barrier spam, need to constantly return to camp and blah, blah, blah...

 

Well, this means 2 things only:

 

1) You making stuff up to create drama

2) You aint really good at this game, so lower it down

 

I always run 2 warrior, one ranged DPS and only one mage whose main job is CC and picking off entire mobs (walking bomb ftw) rather than barrier, which yeah he does now and then (I never spam it, that only really happens when Vivi is in team, cause well, it's Vivi).

 

Mostly Hard or nightmare depending on my mood, I have died only 3 times in near 150 hours of game, and I spends hours in a single map before even bothering to ret to camp.

 

So no, it doesn't gimp anything.

[Blue_Shayde]

I want my healing mages back. The blood magic. The in-depth and diverse magic trees with lots of abilities. I want to be weak at the start and powerful by the end like in DAO. *sigh*

 

Taking healing magic away was the worst immersion breaking/lore hurting bs I've seen yet in this game.

 

 

Bioware, check your war table. I'm pretty sure the Operation, How Could You, has appeared.

[Madelin]

Spam BARRIER. yes a brilliant idea (sarcastic here). Poorly implemented, though,  Three mages in a party?.. they all spam BARRIER at the same time... yes brilliant combat AI too.

 

Mike Laidlaw said it well in a video. Basically, players found an exploit in DA:O, that using four mages with healing magic in your team, you had yourself a perpetual healing machine. It could defeat any enemy. Very unbalanced combat . To avoid this in DAI, Bioware implemented the current version as a "balanced combat system". 

 

Then there is the Dragon Age Lore of mages with Healing magic. Canon fact!  But, I suppose, in the Bioware Grand Scheme of things, it's only  a bothersome fact, easily ignored.

Tell me if you can finish the game by that '3 mages spam barrier all the time' in Hard or Nightmare

Even with 6 Healing Potion, hard was fine enough without having to go back and restock, if it does finish... quick travel to camp only take a negligible moment of your time.

[shadownian]

Like i said before....theres a simple answer to this.

 

Picture a strange mage coming to skyhold, or maybe you bump into him somewhere while picking roots and convince him to help out with the inquisition.

He gets to skyhold and the potions guy gets upset...

Potion dude:"He's interfering with my work"

Healing mage: "I was only trying to help."

Potion dude: "I dont need another mage sticking his nose or his twiddly fingers into my work when im trying to get the injured back on their feet. We need proven medicines, not that hocus pokus the circle teaches!"

Healing mage: "My methods have been practiced for generations. Magic is just as proven as your potions, and is more effective. I don't see the issue here."

Potion Dude: "That's it! My lady it's either him or me. I cant work like this. Either he goes or I do!"

Healing mage: "The choice is yours my lady and i will respect it no matter which you choose, but if you have me stay, as a person familiar with magic I may be able to teach you how to heal as I do i time." (If inquisitor is a mage)

 

*Dialogue wheel opens*

Choose the mage and you unlock the healing specialization. But the potion maker leaves and you no longer are able to make potions.

Choose the potion dude and the mage leaves but you no longer are able to learn the specialization.

 

Mind you this option would only happen if your inquisitor is a mage.

 

There...problem solved.

Btw sorry for my poor writing ability. lol

[Madelin]

^ Once you enable healing magic, your health will be perma-full in exploration mode (due to you constant spamming it and the fact that your mana does regenerate in/out of combat).

The adventure in DA:I is more realistic in that, you venture into an area initially in good condition, healthy and strong, and proceed to being hurt, injured, near-death state as you goes on venturing without proper planning (good tactics in battle). Eventually you had no choice but to retreat back to your forward camp, revitalize yourselves and resume your adventure

[Blue_Shayde]

I don't care if it makes things easier or harder for some of you. The fact is, healing magic should still be around and available to those who want to use it. If you don't want to use it, that's fine. Why not an option in the castle to choose between healing magic or potions?

 

I mean, fine. You like chugging potions. I don't like not being able to learn healing spells as a mage. Besides, the issue goes beyond just the loss of healers for me. Each new dragon age game has slowly stripped mages down further and further.

[Fullmetall21]

While some of you may enjoy romp and frolicking across the beautiful landscape, stopping to pick every flower you see...I'm not one of those people.  Nor do I enjoy the clunky Tac Cam interface.  "fighting" the camera and not the enemies.  I don't want to micromanage my idiot companions every step of the fight.

 

IF you play in real-time you WILL need to make frequent potion runs.  Period, end of story.  No pause button, to tac-cam, real time.  Even in EASY mode, you're crew will occasionally take a beating. 

IF you enjoy the tactical aspect, micromanaging every step of the fight, then no, you likely wont need to refill potions very often, as Barrier is completely OP in this situation.

 

So we really have a battle between two various modes of play.  Tactical vrs Real-Time.

We have the more traditional healing:  Spirit Healing, which is reactive.  Meaning you heal when you take damage.

In DA:I we have the new Barrier system, which is essentially 'pro-active'.  You apply the buff before taking damage to prevent the damage.

Each is good, each is different.  As are the play styles.

Tactical play benefits enormously from proactive barriers, and makes that style of gameplay easier once you understand the mechanics a bit.

 

Real-time benefits more from reactive healing.  Things tend to get crazy and chaotic in real-time.  Mages and rogues running up to melee range and all.  Reactive healing gives this style of gameplay much needed breathing room.

 

Not to mention IT's IN THE LORE... and the past 2 games. (just saying)

 

Why not have BOTH?  Let players play the way they want to?

 

If you want to skip one aspect of the game you are expected to make potion runs. The devs said that you can play either way action or tactical but the tactical camera is there for a reason. I get it you don't like it fair enough but if you could complete the game without tactical camera and without potion runs at all then this forum would be filled with posts like this game is too easy i dont even use tactical camera or something closer to dragon age 2. The addition of healing magic at this point would result to not one person ever using tactical camera.

 

It's your choice to ignore an aspect of the game but you should expect it to be harder because of it. Also the choice between healing magic and potions is not an option at all. Who would ever pick potions when you can have up to 3 mages in a group using healing magic and barriers.

[Sartoz]

Disable barrier and use it manually.

 

It's really simple, c'mon.

Yes... I can do that. Unfortunately, I then need to micromange my team.... something I abhorr to do. Micromangement of a combat situation is NOT what I consider to be tactics. 

 

I survive in Hard mode using the action style because my team is properly buffed, generate GUARD, get out of the way and generally manually set my Tactic Options and Behaviours before combat.  However,  a proper implementation allows the player to do this "setup" only once per situation... I've been a systems programmer many a years and good systems programmers hate doing the same thing more than once. That's why you have a computer to handle this repeatable chore...

 

Players that need to micromange their team shows the failure of the devs to properly design a tactical combat system. Da:O and DA2 had a limited but "programmable script".. miles ahead of the current infantile so called AI.

 

Look, if you are familiar with US military doctrine or read books on military themes, one thing becomes clear and is consistent.. Amateurs think tactics while professionals think logistics. Here, in DAI, when you must scram back to base for a rest and refuel the devs were thinking tactics... Logistical thinking is the preparation of supply lines that allows your attacking force to engage in combat with all the necessary material to stay engaged and complete your mission... ergo more healing pots or make a tactical withdrawl if the enemy has a real superior force.

 

Bioware's PR  explains this farce as "choices and consequences".

 

Apologies if I come off emotional on this subject....  but it can be ohh.. so much better.

[Sartoz]

 snip

--------

That said, I think there is an argument to be made for giving Casual difficulty the post-combat regen. I consider that difficulty to be geared towards people who enjoy the game less for the challenge of combat and more for the experience of immersing themselves in the story of the Inquisitor. 

A post-combat regen is a solution but not what they are looking for, in my view. Casual Play, in this game, does not remove the necessity for combat.  You need Power points to unlock other zones. Power points are obtained by combat or filling requisitions... which require crafting material which means exploring which means getting into combat.. expecially with bears and wolves. .

 

For Casual players, combat should be a minimum exercise. So, give more Power points for a mission assignment, thus advancing them in the game, quickly. In story forced combat, reduce the enemy health and/or increase yours. An easy fix