436 réponses à ce sujet

[Madelin]

While some of you may enjoy romp and frolicking across the beautiful landscape, stopping to pick every flower you see...I'm not one of those people.  Nor do I enjoy the clunky Tac Cam interface.  "fighting" the camera and not the enemies.  I don't want to micromanage my idiot companions every step of the fight.

 

IF you play in real-time you WILL need to make frequent potion runs.  Period, end of story.  No pause button, to tac-cam, real time.  Even in EASY mode, you're crew will occasionally take a beating. 

IF you enjoy the tactical aspect, micromanaging every step of the fight, then no, you likely wont need to refill potions very often, as Barrier is completely OP in this situation.

 

So we really have a battle between two various modes of play.  Tactical vrs Real-Time.

We have the more traditional healing:  Spirit Healing, which is reactive.  Meaning you heal when you take damage.

In DA:I we have the new Barrier system, which is essentially 'pro-active'.  You apply the buff before taking damage to prevent the damage.

Each is good, each is different.  As are the play styles.

Tactical play benefits enormously from proactive barriers, and makes that style of gameplay easier once you understand the mechanics a bit.

 

Real-time benefits more from reactive healing.  Things tend to get crazy and chaotic in real-time.  Mages and rogues running up to melee range and all.  Reactive healing gives this style of gameplay much needed breathing room.

 

Not to mention IT's IN THE LORE... and the past 2 games. (just saying)

 

Why not have BOTH?  Let players play the way they want to?

People want crafting or customization, thats why Bioware implement those Ore/Herb/Leather crafting ingredient to craft various upgrade of equipment, alchemy etc.

You don't fancy those aspect of game that you refer to as tedious, then just avoid crafting. 

If you say, "but I want to craft, not just too much crafting!!". 
Then - Just go along with whatever you're doing, you will pick up enough material even without farming those material to craft decent item

If you say, "but, without good equipment that is obtainable by crafting, enemy will make a quick work out of me!!".
Then - Simply lower down the difficulty...
 

I only need to 'micro-manage' my companion only when mage or archer is sticking to close with the enemy and I hardly ever faced any situation where I had to restock potion more than I could adventure, in fact I don't even use any secondary potion. All that is on hard difficulty

I'm pretty sure lowering down difficulty will remove the need to 
1) Micro-Manage your companion
2) Min-Maxing your companion choice
3) Constantly restocking potion (this could even be ignored if you plan properly...)
4) Farming for crafting ingredient (troublesome or tedious for you)

[Sartoz]

 Snip

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 Simply lower down the difficulty...
 

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Snip

LOL

 

Here is a story of a guy that's been playing PC games since DOS came out. In anticipation of DAI he fires up DA:O and DA2 answers all the KEEP questions. He wants to be prepared. Reads the game specs and is forced to buy a new mobo and cpu in order to play the game. Then, unsurprised but he thought he could get away with, Microsoft License algorithm say he installed Windows 7 on two machines and the "new" one won't activate. So, he re-installs windows, loses all his playable games because of the stupid registry system and finally the day comes where he installs DAI.

 

No problems, no glitches, some mild video stuttering and wakes up in the room. Eager to play the game, follows CASS and encounters his first demon. For some freaking reason, the keyboard and mouse suddenly have a life of their own and won't submit to simple commands... he gets massacred.

 

No problem, he says.. I'll turn the difficulty down. Follows CASS once more and this time he gets his head delivered on a platter.

 

For some unfortunate people, this game's casual is not Casual. .. which is the moral of the story.

 

Me? I've adapted and now play on HARD using the action style game play.

[AlanC9]

I don't follow that. Are you really saying you perform better in action mode?

[mav805]

Been playing for 80 hours on Nightmare and I've never fast traveled back to a camp to replenish potions. The combat and skills are balanced so well that you can get through most fights without ever being hit, so I see no need for healing magic. It would take much of the utility out of the skills that are available too.

 

Besides, a lack of healing magic isn't even lore breaking, all it says is that you don't have a spirit healer in your party. Is it silly that The Inquisitor can't find a spirit healer when they need one? Maybe. But even in Origins you needed Wynn to teach you how to do it, so a mage with those skills is pretty rare. 

 

Edit: Also, while I usually have enough herbs from collecting unless I want to upgrade potions, I understand everybody doesn't stop as often as I do. But while you can't buy healing potions, but you can buy Elfroot, I think for about 20 gold? So there ya go.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think people are forgetting that they can run away.

I've been playing on Hard since release, and I have seen no TPKs at all. Even when the rest of the party is stuck on the terrain and my mage is surrounded, the option exists to flee.

In most battles, no one takes damage. And when things do go wrong, there are a bunch of potions available. Or you can run away.

[TristynTrine]

^ Once you enable healing magic, your health will be perma-full in exploration mode (due to you constant spamming it and the fact that your mana does regenerate in/out of combat).

The adventure in DA:I is more realistic in that, you venture into an area initially in good condition, healthy and strong, and proceed to being hurt, injured, near-death state as you goes on venturing without proper planning (good tactics in battle). Eventually you had no choice but to retreat back to your forward camp, revitalize yourselves and resume your adventure

If you want to play the 'realistic card' How does a little bottle of whatever made of some random root, fully recover someone... That makes no sense to me at all. lol

[saladinbob]

Here's how I'd handle it. Specialisations need an upgrade because they currently contain a lot of underpowered spells. Your basic spells should be just that - basic. They should be fine for the early game but then start getting less effective as you reach the mid-game and beyond. Your big hitting spells should be in specialisations. But so should healing. So should Crowd Control. This then forces you to choose between massive DPS, CC or Healing. Theses specialisations should be exclusive to your character and unavailable to your companions.

 

This gives players more freedom in magic, making mages more interesting to play. You've solved the "four healing mage invincibility" concern Bioware had because you're limited to a single healer. If you choose healing over DPS then you've got to rely on non-mages for your DPS which mixes up the party more. It gives mage players more re-playability because they can try the different specialisations and see how it affects the game. Most of all it stops the need for farming for potions and upgrades which pisses so many people off.

[shadownian]

People are forgetting, the point is, like potions or not, that healing magic has been part of the game for the two prior games and its in the lore.

 

To take it out now just seems stupid.

 

Does it work, ya the potions work.

Does it go with the lore of the game? Hells no. Even the writers include lines in cutscenes like "heal you with their magic", so it makes absolutely no sense.

They said they didnt want you to have an unbeatable party with  multiple healing mages, then like I said make it a specialty. That way only you get it and its not an option for the other mages. None of your companions are healing mages so you cant have a team full of healers and be unbeatable. But from what i hear you can be a KE and be pretty much unbeatable on your own. lol

 

This is what Bioware does. They establish a world that works and makes sense, then they strip it away till your shaking your head at the stupidity of it all.

They did it with ME and now they are doing it with DA. Thats why there have been tons of people who have complained that the mage just isnt fun to play any more, even by those like me who have played a mage or magic user in 99 percent of their rpg's. Including the previous Dragon Age games. It's been stripped down to next to nothing and it makes as much sense as running into battle with a string outfit on in Mass Effect.

 

Like one person said, next game we might have mages who just swing sticks around.

[StingingVelvet]

I actually think the new health system is one of the things the game did right. You're punished for playing poorly by having to travel back to camp. Dungeons are especially interesting when you have 12 potions to do them in or you have to retreat. I like that a lot.

[shadownian]

I actually think the new health system is one of the things the game did right. You're punished for playing poorly by having to travel back to camp. Dungeons are especially interesting when you have 12 potions to do them in or you have to retreat. I like that a lot.

Thats fine like it all you want, but its not lore. Its not what Dragon Age is. They have that sort of thing in other rpg's if thats what you like. Thats also why i say make it a specialty, that way those who like things the way they are can continue to play that way, and those like me who like healing magic can use it.

 

Its not that people are arguing that potions wont suffice or even add something in their own way, its the fact that to change a main element like that in the third game in is ridiculous and a slap in the face to all those fans who prefer to play a healing mage, or even the mage at all because overall the mage is only a shell of what it use to be.

[StingingVelvet]

Thats fine like it all you want, but its not lore. Its not what Dragon Age is. They have that sort of thing in other rpg's if thats what you like. Thats also why i say make it a specialty, that way those who like things the way they are can continue to play that way, and those like me who like healing magic can use it.

 

Its not that people are arguing that potions wont suffice or even add something in their own way, its the fact that to change a main element like that in the third game in is ridiculous and a slap in the face to all those fans who prefer to play a healing mage, or even the mage at all because overall the mage is only a shell of what it use to be.

 

Eh... I'm not a fan of changing things, and I AM disappointed this game is so different in so many ways (for the worse IMO). However I don't think changing heal to barrier is really a huge lore issue, and I don't think lore decides game mechanics (or should), and I like limiting healing in some fashion. Way back in the day potions actually had a high cost, and spells could only be used between resting, and these limits were pretty normal.

[shadownian]

Oh and on a side note, has anyone else had an issue with thier potions since the last update. Now i can only add 1 potion to my secondary potion slot. It says 1/6 or what have you but no matter what I do I cant get more than one.

Maybe im doing something wrong...idk.

[FKA_Servo]

It's in the lore, true - but the lore also indicates that it's rare and in it's real world application, time consuming. Healing with magic still takes minutes, possibly hours. The ones who can overcome those limitations to some extent - the spirit healers - are

Spoiler

possessed by spirits, like Wynne and Anders

, and consequently are very uncommon. So really, the prevalence of healers in the past games can be chalked up to lore/gameplay disconnect. The change means that healing magic is treated according to the way it actually exists within the setting.

 

In any event, healing was fun, but guard and barriers are also fun. I always preferred the "shooting lightning at fools" aspect of magery, personally.

Modifié par TommyServo, 11 décembre 2014 - 02:52 .

[shadownian]

It's in the lore, true - but the lore also indicates that it's rare and in it's real world application, time consuming. Healing with magic takes minutes, possibly hours. The ones who can overcome those limitations to some extent - the spirit healers - are

Spoiler

possessed by spirits, like Wynne and Anders

, and consequently are very uncommon. So really, the prevalence of healers in the past games can be chalked up to lore/gameplay disconnect.

 

In any event, healing was fun, but guard and barriers are also fun.

Thats why putting it in as a specialty of the mage would make sense and not break anything in the game already. As it stands the mage is pretty useless and boring till you get KE, then he's so overpowered that its so easy that its not fun in that regard either. You can basically solo the game with KE. Ay least if the mage is given a Spirit healer specialty they can no longer become any other more offensive specialty and have to deal with sticking to basic spells for attacks, no super powerful unbeatable solo god mage. lol

[Hexoduen]

Dungeons are especially interesting when you have 12 potions to do them in or you have to retreat. I like that a lot.

 

Bottom line is that mage character build and mage combat is a lot more restricted, while at the same time throwing any sense of a coherent world lore-wise out of the window. It's plain out stupid.

 

Enjoy only bringing 12 potions and no healer into a dungeon? You can do that in Origins and DA2, if you set the difficulty accordingly. What choice do we have in Inquisition to use healing spells, or to build mages as healers? None, zip, it's gone. Less RPG, more "on-rails". A sad development not only for modern RPGs.

 

[Unchangeable Appearance]

 

Look, the situation is based around the casual gamer. Not you college students with consoles and hours on end to play. I'm talking about the guy who has a wife, who has kids

 

When your product is a video game, basing your decisions around older people is probably a poor artistic choice and a terrible business one unless you're specifically trying to reach a niche crowd or making a game that's very simplistic, like a platformer on the iPhone or something. 

 

That said I don't really mind there not being healing. 

[FKA_Servo]

Thats why putting it in as a specialty of the mage would make sense and not break anything in the game already. As it stands the mage is pretty useless and boring till you get KE, then he's so overpowered that its so easy that its not fun in that regard either. You can basically solo the game with KE. Ay least if the mage is given a Spirit healer specialty they can no longer become any other more offensive specialty and have to deal with sticking to basic spells for attacks, no super powerful unbeatable solo god mage. lol

 

I disagree with it being useless and boring, and I'm playing a rift mage. I'm having a lot of fun, well... shooting lightning at fools. YMMV.

 

Anyway, this would have to be heavily integrated into the story, with a lot of care. Not just "now you choose your spec. Spirit healer!" or with a throwaway requisition quest like the other specs. I think I'd know if I were possessed, and I think some of my more fervent companions would figure it out and take issue with it. Possession, whether it's a spirit or a demon, is a pretty big deal in this setting.

[Efrim]

If your argument is based around lore - they change lore over time. I know change is scary and all but this is true of almost every persistent universe. Personally I didn't find it that weird or extreme of a change - and the balance of the Barrier seems fine to me.

If your argument is that it's too hard - turn down the difficulty. (Though I've seen videos of people solo-finishing nightmare with knight enchanter so....)

I like the new system. My only qualm is that the garden in skyhold is far too small. Would prefer larger garden and rarer seed drop to compensate for getting it up and rolling. Either that or making basic herbs like Elfroot purchasable from the Skyhold merchants rather than needing to travel out to Hinterlands or Crestwood.

[shadownian]

If your argument is based around lore - they change lore over time. I know change is scary and all but this is true of almost every persistent universe. Personally I didn't find it that weird or extreme of a change - and the balance of the Barrier seems fine to me.

If your argument is that it's too hard - turn down the difficulty. (Though I've seen videos of people solo-finishing nightmare with knight enchanter so....)

I like the new system. My only qualm is that the garden in skyhold is far too small. Would prefer larger garden and rarer seed drop to compensate for getting it up and rolling. Either that or making basic herbs like Elfroot purchasable from the Skyhold merchants rather than needing to travel out to Hinterlands or Crestwood.

Thing is its not just a lore change but also a change in how mages are perceived. Remember the mages and templars are at war, templars see mages as dangerous and prone to posssesion. With healing magic in game mages had a way of proven they are more than just tools of destruction. They could help and heal. With healing gone all you have are the negative aspects of being a mage. How are you to convince a templar that mages are good people when all they can do is blow sh@t up?? lol Healing magic allowed for duality in the mage class. Light and dark, good and bad, healing or hurting. Now theres only the dark, only hurting, it makes it much harder to side with the mages from a story aspect than ever in the past.

[FKA_Servo]

Thing is its not just a lore change but also a change in how mages are perceived. Remember the mages and templars are at war, templars see mages as dangerous and prone to posssesion. With healing magic in game mages had a way of proven they are more than just tools of destruction. They could help and heal. With healing gone all you have are the negative aspects of being a mage. How are you to convince a templar that mages are good people when all they can do is blow sh@t up?? lol Healing magic allowed for duality in the mage class. Light and dark, good and bad, healing or hurting. Now theres only the dark, only hurting, it makes it much harder to side with the mages from a story aspect than ever in the past.

 

But the best healing mages are all abominations. How exactly would that be perceived if known?

[shadownian]

But the best healing mages are all abominations. How exactly would that be perceived if known?

Well actually the ones who specialize in healing magic are supposedly possessed. In the other games any mage could heal but only so much. An actual specialist is the one whos possessed, and like mentioned before, those are rare. Who knows in the terms of the world, they might be considered myth or legend. If your thinking from the perspective of somebody who actually inhabited this world we play in. Not to mention even if somebody was a Spirit Healer, i doubt they would go around flaunting it..saying something like...oh ya i got a demon pal in me..woohooo...lol They would just heal the person and move on, leaving the person who was hurt thinking the healer was just another healer like any other.

[FMultimedia]

Thing is its not just a lore change but also a change in how mages are perceived. Remember the mages and templars are at war, templars see mages as dangerous and prone to posssesion. With healing magic in game mages had a way of proven they are more than just tools of destruction. They could help and heal. With healing gone all you have are the negative aspects of being a mage. How are you to convince a templar that mages are good people when all they can do is blow sh@t up?? lol Healing magic allowed for duality in the mage class. Light and dark, good and bad, healing or hurting. Now theres only the dark, only hurting, it makes it much harder to side with the mages from a story aspect than ever in the past.

Gosh, this has been explained about three times in the post before: healing magic IS STILL AVAILABLE within DAI setting. But lore says healing is slow and takes hours to be performed normally. We can see mages healing in some cutscenes - as was also mentioned here several times. Mages who can actually heal DURING COMBAT are Spiritual Healers, and are ALWAYS possessed by a Spirit - Abominations. Wynn and Anders, for example. That's why, lore-wise, this games makes actually more sense than before, when the Warden or the Champion could become Spirit Healers without possession!!! Obviously, that was not such an issue, considering they could become Blood Mages with zero consequences either, so that's that.

 

So you see, now it is the first time where specializations actually make any sense. WITHIN lore.

[saladinbob]

It's in the lore, true - but the lore also indicates that it's rare and in it's real world application, time consuming. Healing with magic still takes minutes, possibly hours. The ones who can overcome those limitations to some extent - the spirit healers - are

Spoiler

possessed by spirits, like Wynne and Anders

, and consequently are very uncommon. So really, the prevalence of healers in the past games can be chalked up to lore/gameplay disconnect. The change means that healing magic is treated according to the way it actually exists within the setting.

 

In any event, healing was fun, but guard and barriers are also fun. I always preferred the "shooting lightning at fools" aspect of magery, personally.

 

Not true. In Dawn of the Seeker, Cassandra is healed by a Mage Healer in seconds. If you put healing as a speciality no one is asking you to play a healer so you can continue to play the game you want to and the rest of us who want healing put back in can play the game we want to. Those of us in favour aren't trying to dictate to those of you who aren't how to play your game. It's the other way around.

[SirMoogie]

I did not experience these problems on normal difficulty and have played through the entire story and most areas. Healing potions do not require elfroot, they are replenished for free. The regen potions require elfroot and are not necessary to complete the game. I never felt the need to have to backtrack to camp to replenish potions while exploring. Potion use was at a minimum with all the barrier spells and guard being generated, again on normal difficulty. 
 

[THE_ANGRY_GAMER]

Just a Lore note - not all Spirit Healers are possessed, but they are more prone to possession than other mages, since they need to use spirits to perform their healing.

 

Another note - the 'heal' spell that any mage could learn in Origins and 2 was not an example of how healing worked in Lore - hell, the codex for each game stated that healing within combat was nigh-on impossible and only Spirit Healers could do it. Inquisition''s approach is more in line with the Lore that was in the Codex, in the novels, and in the comics. 

 

The issue with balance is that access to a Healing spec would change the game for everyone. Remember Arcane Horrors and Revenants in Origins and 2? Remember how they could pretty much OHK even a tank? The reason for that is that the combat designers had to compensate for the player being able to heal. Now, if you're within the right level range, you're unlikely to be OHKed unless you're really not paying attention, or fighting a Dragon. Go find Patrick Weekes' explanation of the system. It's enlightening as to how combat was designed in Inquisition.