436 réponses à ce sujet

[ShinsFortress]

*snip*

So you're basically asking for a wholly different game. *snip*

 

Yes.

 

Though it's less bad than DA2, I don't like DA:I anywhere near as much as I liked DA:O.

[shadownian]

Gosh, this has been explained about three times in the post before: healing magic IS STILL AVAILABLE within DAI setting. But lore says healing is slow and takes hours to be performed normally. We can see mages healing in some cutscenes - as was also mentioned here several times. Mages who can actually heal DURING COMBAT are Spiritual Healers, and are ALWAYS possessed by a Spirit - Abominations. Wynn and Anders, for example. That's why, lore-wise, this games makes actually more sense than before, when the Warden or the Champion could become Spirit Healers without possession!!! Obviously, that was not such an issue, considering they could become Blood Mages with zero consequences either, so that's that.

 

So you see, now it is the first time where specializations actually make any sense. WITHIN lore.

Actually you are wrong, and so was I actually. According to lore Spirit Healers are NOT necessarily possessed by spirits but call upon benevolent spirits that live in the fade.  Yes some Spirit Healers have been possessed and that only strengthened their abilities, they did not give them those abilities.

 

Heres some quotes....

 

"Spirit healers are mages who focus on restoration spells and use the life energy acquired from the benevolent spirits which reside in the Fade"

 

"While healing spells do exist, spirit healers are well known for taking healing and restoration far beyond a standard mage’s capabilities. In effect, the spirit healer summons a benevolent spirit through the veil and that spirit uses its abilities on the mage’s behalf."

 

Even when it comes to Wynne....

"Wynne appeared to have been born into the Spirit healer role as a natural. In her childhood, she can recall entering the Fade in her dreams and feeling a particular spirit watching over her."

[Sartoz]

I don't follow that. Are you really saying you perform better in action mode?

Yes I do...

[FKA_Servo]

Not true. In Dawn of the Seeker, Cassandra is healed by a Mage Healer in seconds. If you put healing as a speciality no one is asking you to play a healer so you can continue to play the game you want to and the rest of us who want healing put back in can play the game we want to. Those of us in favour aren't trying to dictate to those of you who aren't how to play your game. It's the other way around.

 

Dawn of the Seeker (which was just about the dumbest thing ever) is at odds with what we've seen in the games in that case.

 

I'm also not against putting them in the game. Not sure where you got that notion. But I do like the idea that specs can matter outside of combat. Anders' identity as a spirit healer was integral to his character (and in many ways, the overarching narrative of DA2). I would love to play a spirit healer. But I want to get possessed by a fade spirit in order to achieve that. And I want it to affect the way I'm percieved. It should be more than an arbitrary choice, which is largely what it was in DAO and even moreso in DA2.

 

What I don't like (and what I would argue against) is lore/gameplay segregation. I understand it's inevitable to some extent, but if you can have everything playing by the same rules... why wouldn't you? It's more interesting.

[saladinbob]

Dawn of the Seeker (which was just about the dumbest thing ever) is at odds with what we've seen in the games in that case.

 

 

 

Yet it is referenced by Cassandra when exploring her past. Clearly it's considered canon.

[FKA_Servo]

Yet it is referenced by Cassandra when exploring her past. Clearly it's considered canon.

 

I'm aware. It can both be dumb and not entirely lore accurate and still be considered canon.

[shadownian]

Dawn of the Seeker (which was just about the dumbest thing ever) is at odds with what we've seen in the games in that case.

 

I'm also not against putting them in the game. Not sure where you got that notion. But I do like the idea that specs can matter outside of combat. Anders' identity as a spirit healer was integral to his character (and in many ways, the overarching narrative of DA2). I would love to play a spirit healer. But I want to get possessed by a fade spirit in order to achieve that. And I want it to affect the way I'm percieved. It should be more than an arbitrary choice, which is largely what it was in DAO and even moreso in DA2.

 

What I don't like (and what I would argue against) is lore/gameplay segregation. I understand it's inevitable to some extent, but if you can have everything playing by the same rules... why wouldn't you? It's more interesting.

Well you say...

"But I want to get possessed by a fade spirit in order to achieve that. And I want it to affect the way I'm percieved. It should be more than an arbitrary choice, which is largely what it was in DAO and even moreso in DA2"

 

You want it to be a spiritual possession thing. It doesnt have to be and the end result to gameplay is still the same. Making your character get possesed by a spirit would take alot more time, effort, voice acting, and story telling to accomplish. Where as just being a normal spirit healer that calls upon spirits from the fade would take very little work. The difference being that although the spirit possession might be interesting, if done a bit to death, its very unlikely to ever get done if thats what it took to get put into game. Where just being a "normal" spirit healer would take a few lines of dialogue, and would be much easier for Bioware to do and much less expensive to accomplish, so more likely to happen.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you want to play the 'realistic card' How does a little bottle of whatever made of some random root, fully recover someone... That makes no sense to me at all. lol

1. Magic.
2. He's talking about realism on the macro-level.

For me, I like it because it punishes me for small mistakes. In DA2 or DAO, all you needed to do was win a fight and you'd be perfectly fine for the next one. DAI instead provides an ongoing challenge of resource management, where hit points are the resource.

[Blue_Shayde]

I consider the lore of DAO and DA2 to be of more canon priority then anything mentioned in DAI. Since DAI has come later.

[FKA_Servo]

The lore regarding healing magic in DAI is identical to the lore in the previous games. The gameplay just reflects it now.

[JaneF]

Not sure about the challenge argument in all honestly. Though I guess it challenges my patience at the repetitive trip back to camp to restock. 

[Azazel185]

Guard and barrier are extra health bars that characters can self heal. I like the new mechanic and it lets them design encounters now so they don't have to try to overcome heal spamming.

You can also get regen potions for each character to help them heal up after an engagement as well as the aoe heal grenade.

There's plenty of health management mechanics in the game so I'm not understanding the complaint. It also makes more sense when in the earlier games characters would complain in cinematics about how draining it was to heal refugees even though they could heal in combat indefinitely.

[Blue_Shayde]

My simple complaint is as a person who always plays mages, I don't like how Bioware is nerfing mages more and more with each new game. I want healing spells. Not barriers. Because as a mage, I should have the variety I did in the previous two games of the same series and world.

[Hexoduen]

The lore regarding healing magic in DAI is identical to the lore in the previous games. The gameplay just reflects it now.

 

The removal of healing spells does not in any way reflect the lore of Origins and DA2. In Origins and DA2 we learn that healing magic exists, that it is highly desired, and that it is the most commonly accepted magic in Thedas. Now all of the sudden it's gone *poof* written out of the story, and it's been replaced by some strange phenomena limiting the number of potions people can carry.

 

Lore? Not in any way

[Blue_Shayde]

The removal of healing spells does not in any way reflect the lore of Origins and DA2. In Origins and DA2 we learn that healing magic exists, that it is highly desired, and that it is the most commonly accepted magic in Thedas. Now all of the sudden it's gone *poof* written out of the story, and it's been replaced by some strange phenomena limiting the number of potions people can carry.

 

Lore? Not in any way

 

Yeah, that part sure is weird. Why can I only carry 8 potions that the entire party must share? Hell, iron bull could lug around two crates full of potions and not break a sweat.

 

Why can't I, as a mage, invest in a tree that leads to healing? Why can my mages revive the party members, but not heal them? Isn't revival from death more complicated then healing?

[Tsunami Chef]

The removal of healing spells does not in any way reflect the lore of Origins and DA2. In Origins and DA2 we learn that healing magic exists, that it is highly desired, and that it is the most commonly accepted magic in Thedas. Now all of the sudden it's gone *poof* written out of the story, and it's been replaced by some strange phenomena limiting the number of potions people can carry.

 

Lore? Not in any way

Except you talk to a surgeon who talks about magic...There is healing magic, but it's not some stupid ass "I sit here for 5 seconds and you heal the 10 inch deep stab wound in your belly." She even says people are looking more towards science and less towards magic for healing. It isn't gone, it just isn't combat magic.

 

If anyone really thinks someone standing behind a character constantly healing him after he gets injured as if nothing happened is realistic going by almost any fantasy lore...idk.

[Hexoduen]

Hell, iron bull could lug around two crates full of potions and not break a sweat.

 

Yep 

[Tsunami Chef]

Not sure about the challenge argument in all honestly. Though I guess it challenges my patience at the repetitive trip back to camp to restock. 

It's called damage mitigation. If you can't manage that then you should have to go back to camp.

[saladinbob]

Why are so many of you on about lore? Who gives a crap about lore? Lore has to take a backseat to playability and enjoyment of the game and the current mechanic is probably the least enjoyable thing in any game ever. People want choice and Bioware have removed that choice from us players and forced upon us a system that is boring and time consuming, not to mention thoroughly unenjoyable.

[Blue_Shayde]

I still stand by my earlier question. Why can my mages revive party members, but not do basic healing spells? Revival is a little bit more intense a healing spell then a simple mending of flesh.

 

Why are so many of you on about lore? Who gives a crap about lore? Lore has to take a backseat to playability and enjoyment of the game and the current mechanic is probably the least enjoyable thing in any game ever. People want choice and Bioware have removed that choice from us players and forced upon us a system that is boring and time consuming, not to mention thoroughly unenjoyable.

 

Sing it, my friend. I'm in complete agreement at the end of the day. I'm playing a fantasy game with magic and mages. A sequel to two other games that gave me the option of healing magic. Suddenly being refused healing magic has ruined my gameplay. Because I, as an individual, have always enjoyed having a balanced party that included 1 healer.

 

If I can revive, why can't I heal? Why must I as a mage rely on potions (magic potions that magically heal all wounds as well, mind you. So science my elven arse.) instead of my own power?

 

 

 

If a player hates having a healer around, they didn't have to take the healer with them. And still had the option of potions. In DAI, I have no other option BUT potions.

[saladinbob]

I'd also correct the person who said science is spreading. That's not what the surgeon says. She's offering a personal opinion, not a commentary on the state of the world's beliefs.

 

If Healing magic is reintroduced as a specialisation then choice is restored to the player base. If you like the idea of healing magic then you'll specialise in that area. If you prefer the system of potions then you'll specialise in another area and rely on the current potion crafting system. Some will take the former option, some the latter, some both, but at least the freedom to choose the way you play will be there, rather than have the developers force that choice upon you. No one likes someone else making their decisions for them but that's exactly what Bioware did when they removed healing magic.

[Blue_Shayde]

I'd also correct the person who said science is spreading. That's not what the surgeon says. She's offering a personal opinion, not a commentary on the state of the world's beliefs.

 

Better warn the Chantry. If they think mages are a threat to the faithful, they've got a surprise coming their way.

[Hexoduen]

Except you talk to a surgeon who talks about magic...There is healing magic, but it's not some stupid ass "I sit here for 5 seconds and you heal the 10 inch deep stab wound in your belly." She even says people are looking more towards science and less towards magic for healing. It isn't gone, it just isn't combat magic.

 

If anyone really thinks someone standing behind a character constantly healing him after he gets injured as if nothing happened is realistic going by almost any fantasy lore...idk.

 

I write about the 'lore' of Dragon Age, not realism. Healing spells were there, and potions could be carried en masse if you so pleased.

 

Now healing spells are gone, and there's a limit to how many potions we can carry (yet plenty of space for picking up battleaxes and whatnot). A part of the lore in Dragon Age has been removed and ignored in Inquisition.

 

Obviously people complain when part of the game is left out, no wonder there are 2000+ replies in this thread for example:

 

http://forum.bioware...tsoever/page-81

[saladinbob]

Better warn the Chantry. If they think mages are a threat to the faithful, they've got a surprise coming their way.

 

Oppenheimer, any one?

[Blue_Shayde]

 

Oppenheimer, any one?

 

DA6....surviving in the wake of the atom bomb.