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Restore healing magic/out of combat healing


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#126
Azazel185

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My simple complaint is as a person who always plays mages, I don't like how Bioware is nerfing mages more and more with each new game. I want healing spells. Not barriers. Because as a mage, I should have the variety I did in the previous two games of the same series and world.


Oh, so it's a merit less complaint based off of your own misplaced sense of entitlement and delusional associations. Thanks for clearing that up.

#127
Blue_Shayde

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Oh, so it's a merit less complaint based off of your own misplaced sense of entitlement and delusional associations. Thanks for clearing that up.

Absolutely. :D



#128
Merlik

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Don't want easy healing.



#129
Azazel185

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For all of you complaining about having to go back to camp, if the encounters had been balanced around healing you would have been seeing constant reload screens. Falling back to camp without gaining ground is effectively a soft failure where you're allowed to make small marginal gains in loot and xp (compared to prior installments where you would have gained nothing and had to reload your game because the party wiped).
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#130
Blue_Shayde

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Don't want easy healing.

Then don't spec into healing.

 

 

 

 

How hard is this concept? Past games made healing and potions available. Don't like one? Use the other. This game forces you to use potions. Liked using a healer? Well to bad.


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#131
Hexoduen

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Don't want easy healing.

 

That's a little vague.

If you're referring to healing spells, one of the problems in Inquisition is that we don't get to choose how to heal - there's only potions, and they're even restricted. In Origins and DA2 you could have just left the healer at home whilst adventuring, and you could have chosen to bring as many (or few) potions as you wanted to.

 

Turning a deep RPG franchise towards a more "on-rails" system with less choices is a sure way to alienate a lot of fans.


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#132
Azazel185

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They wanted to add the sense of attrition like in the old school AD&D games where you could only memorize so many healing spells and you'd have to risk resting. It's a design decision to make encounters easier to balance and not turn every fight in an an epic battle. The alternative would have been to limit the healing spells just like potions and I'm sure people would have complained about that too.
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#133
Hexoduen

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They wanted to add the sense of attrition like in the old school AD&D games where you could only memorize so many healing spells and you'd have to risk resting. It's a design decision to make encounters easier to balance and not turn every fight in an an epic battle. The alternative would have been to limit the healing spells just like potions and I'm sure people would have complained about that too.

 

I agree, but it would have been the better alternative since healing spells would still be in the game.

Also, a lot of Bioware fans (myself included) have been with them since BG and NWN, so we're used to those D&D mechanics where the cleric can only cast "Cure Light Wounds" x number of times before resting.

 

There'd still be complaining with a change like this, but it would have been a pill a lot easier to swallow than cutting out the mage healer entirely.



#134
saladinbob

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Inquisition prologue. Meeting Solas for the first time when he shows you how to close the rifts. Second dialogue choice after Varic explains that Solas kept you alive. Select dialogue option 2 - "How did you do that?". Solas' reply - "Healing Magic and Wards". You take control of him finally and find out he was trolling you. Nice one, Solas.



#135
DwayneC

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Those day, when I play BG, I like it very much because it is more like an old school RPG despite the limitation of number of times you can cast a spell. Positioning is not the focus those days. It's more of a number game. You have a 'dice'. Hits are based on chances.

 

Then WoW came out. I liked the game coz the mechanic is working very well. Once you beat the boss, they launch a new content. New challenge. But after 10 years with them, I eventually got bored. I played a priest and I enjoyed healing very much. It's very challenging trying to manage CD and mana while topping up the tank and party members.

 

DA:O came out too. I like that game very much too coz it's also very RPG alike. You have hit chance, you can backstab, you can heal, there are puzzle to solve, you kill a boss it drops a cool gear, good story line, etc.

 

The fact that they take out healing will alienate many fans. I think it's not about whether 'how' healing should work, e.g. having a healing spell or drinking a potion. It's about not having that OPTION. If they impose healing, they can still put some sort of restrictions but at the same time satisfy those who wanted healing. The best way is usually having a balanced mana regeneration, e.g. for every healing spell you cast it slows down your mana regeneration and healing potion consumption have CD just like the old WoW days. Something like that. There are always WAYS TO BALANCE the gameplay NOT by the means of taking that option completely away.

 

At the end of the day, HAVING THE OPTION is always welcome coz the fans get to play the game the way they want to play it. Example, for those who want to have fun, they can choose a more OP path but for those who want to challenging experience, they can choose a more restricted path.

 

It's not about the difficulty setting. Practically that applies to the AI or enemy capability, etc. But it's about the customization to suits DIFFERENT GAMEPLAY STYLE BY INDIVIDUALS to achieve their own preferred experience.

 

But the rule of thumb is to KEEP and ENHANCE what's WORKING and re-invent WHAT'S NOT.

 

When I play Bayonetta 2, it's fantastic. It's as good as the original. They KEPT what's working and further ENHANCE it! WITCH TIME!


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#136
THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Another thing about Lore - especially related to that Solas dialogue - just because something exists and is possible in Lore doesn't mean it should be possible to do on-the-fly in combat. Inquisition confirms that

 

Spoiler

 

is possible in Lore but Dorian still can't use it in a fight outside his focus ability - so it works in much the same way as healing magic or demon-summoning. It's there, but it's not necessarily represented that much in gameplay - the doylist reason for this, of course, is that the game is balanced that way. 

 

A like the point about the 'soft failure' as well - fast-travelling back to a camp to restock your potions (which, as others have said, generally isn't necessary that often - I'm on Hard atm and have honestly been mostly fine, although I'm early in this playthrough) is Inquisition's version of the TPK/Game-over screen. Previous DA games were about strict story progression. This one's more about exploration (at least in gameplay). Thus constant game-over screens would be annoying, whereas this system forces you to strategise and also gives a tangible benefit to pushing the Inquisition's influence into areas - more camps equals a gameplay benefit, not just a cosmetic one.



#137
TristynTrine

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Oh jeez I see it now, "Time Mage" Specialization inbound... Agree to the people saying they might nerf mages to the point of just swinging a stick. Made me laugh. :D



#138
Blue_Shayde

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That's really all I'm saying. Give me the option, don't take it away because of an arbitrary argument. Really, if you want the game to be closer to past games, do so without completely neutering the players and world you've already set up with two past games.

 

You could make healing spells be at the end of a certain magic tree, forcing those of us who want the spells to invest character ability points in order to get the spell. Complete removal after two games that provided it is ridiculous. Let me, the player, decide how I want to use it to effect my gameplay (for good or bad). Don't hold my hand and tell me what is good or bad for my gameplay experience. <_<

 

Oh jeez I see it now, "Time Mage" Specialization inbound... Agree to the people saying they might nerf mages to the point of just swinging a stick. Made me laugh. :D

You laugh now...wait till it happens. :P



#139
Jackal19851111

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I disagree with this suggestion, as I support the no-healing-spell mechanics, as it adds an extra layer of strategy to gameplay; namely attrition and logistics.

But it would seem I'm in the minority.

 

Regardless an option would be good, "advanced difficulty options" similar to Xcom's "second wave options" would be good.



#140
Blue_Shayde

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A game shouldn't need to completely remove an entire existing magic tree to better improve a game's strategy. That's like just adding 100 points to enemy health in order to increase the difficulty level. Its a cheap trick.


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#141
Jackal19851111

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Not in my opinion, then again I'm the type of player who loves Mount and Blade's combat system (no healing in battle, no potions, if you get hit, you get injured, no way around it). I'm also the type of Skyrim player who found much more fun building characters without any points in restoration, and downloads mods to make potions use an animation (so you can't use it in battle) as well as making them duration based rather than instant heal. Also a fan of strategy games.

 

So yeah... just another point of view. Healing potions are limited, hence the layer of attrition that I like. Healing spells are unlimited, so no attrition for me.



#142
Blue_Shayde

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Not in my opinion, then again I'm the type of player who loves Mount and Blade's combat system (no healing in battle, no potions, if you get hit, you get injured, no way around it). I'm also the type of Skyrim player who found much more fun building characters without any points in restoration, and downloads mods to make potions use an animation (so you can't use it in battle) as well as making them duration based rather than instant heal. Also a fan of strategy games.

 

So yeah... just another point of view. Healing potions are limited, hence the layer of attrition that I like. Healing spells are unlimited, so no attrition for me.

 

But see...that's ok. Cause as a player who enjoys that, you have that choice. The problem is, in past games both potions and healers existed. If people like you wanted to increase your challenge, all you had to do was leave the healers behind or not spec into healing. And you had that open, free choice. Where people like me, who enjoy the dynamics of a dedicated healer in my party who I have to protect, could have a healer if I so choose and avoid potions.

 

In Inquisition, that choice is completely gone for my side. I have no choice but to use potions. It would be like them taking away your ability to not drag along a healer. Suddenly, you're forced to take a healer with you 24/7.

 

You kinda get my drift here?



#143
Jackal19851111

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Aye, hence I suggested something similar to a "second wave" option like on Xcom. But, unfortunately I can't see that happening :(



#144
Blue_Shayde

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Well, at least you see my side, and that's more then some of these other people. Thank you.



#145
Sartoz

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Then don't spec into healing.

 

 

 

 

How hard is this concept? Past games made healing and potions available. Don't like one? Use the other. This game forces you to use potions. Liked using a healer? Well to bad.

LOL and Ouch!



#146
Sartoz

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But see...that's ok. Cause as a player who enjoys that, you have that choice. The problem is, in past games both potions and healers existed. If people like you wanted to increase your challenge, all you had to do was leave the healers behind or not spec into healing. And you had that open, free choice. Where people like me, who enjoy the dynamics of a dedicated healer in my party who I have to protect, could have a healer if I so choose and avoid potions.

 

In Inquisition, that choice is completely gone for my side. I have no choice but to use potions. It would be like them taking away your ability to not drag along a healer. Suddenly, you're forced to take a healer with you 24/7.

 

You kinda get my drift here?

Oh, I get you. Personally, I don't like crafting nor potions for that matter. Hence, my parties usually consist of two mages (one a healer) and two tanks or tank and archer... DA:O

 

This game is designed to force me to craft better gear to survive my combat encounters. It forces me into activities that normally I avoid. I miss my healing, necromancy, spirit etc skill trees. On the other hand, I paid my money and I will get my money's worth out of the game.. already, my War Table missions are different, from  the previous game.



#147
AlanC9

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If people like you wanted to increase your challenge, all you had to do was leave the healers behind or not spec into healing. And you had that open, free choice.


I'm not sure that would work for me. I have a severe RP problem with gimping my characters by having them make bad decisions -- except for the stupid ones, of course. So I guess I'm saying that I'm OK with adding healing as long as it's kinda crappy. That would make it like the previous games, where relying on healing wasn't necessary or even all that good -- you were usually better off going for sheer damage and CC.

#148
Blue_Shayde

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I'm not sure that would work for me. I have a severe RP problem with gimping my characters by having them make bad decisions -- except for the stupid ones, of course. So I guess I'm saying that I'm OK with adding healing as long as it's kinda crappy. That would make it like the previous games, where relying on healing wasn't necessary or even all that good -- you were usually better off going for sheer damage and CC.

 

See. Even that, I would be happy with. Have the healing tree be crap unless you heavily invest in it. As expected, weak at the start of the game and powerful by the end. That's usually how character progression works.

 

By having a healer, you give up a bit of Damage Dealing. There is a sacrifice that is made, and some of us like that.

 

In the end, my RP problem is being gimped for no good reason. Why can I, as a mage, no longer invest in healing? Why am I forced to a limited number of potions, when I can lug around over 500lbs of battle axes, swords, armor, etc...? Why must my entire party share that limited pool of potions, instead of each party member having an individual inventory of potions on their own? Why can I bloody revive my fallen allies, but not heal???

 

:lol:


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#149
saladinbob

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I'm not sure that would work for me. I have a severe RP problem with gimping my characters by having them make bad decisions -- except for the stupid ones, of course. So I guess I'm saying that I'm OK with adding healing as long as it's kinda crappy. That would make it like the previous games, where relying on healing wasn't necessary or even all that good -- you were usually better off going for sheer damage and CC.

 

That's your choice but not everyone's so gimping it wouldn't work but having a specialised tree would allow you the freedom of choice to select how far you specialise in it. By having it in at least the choice is ours, not Bioware's. Unfortunately this seems to be Inquisition's biggest problem. Bioware have decided for us on many different aspects where in previous titles in the series and previous games from their back catalogue, we've been allowed to choose for ourselves. For me, that removal of choice was the biggest design mistake in this game which for most of us means it will never be as good as Origins was.



#150
MiyoKit

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Then don't spec into healing.

 

 

 

 

How hard is this concept? Past games made healing and potions available. Don't like one? Use the other. This game forces you to use potions. Liked using a healer? Well to bad.

 

It doesn't work like that... at all. DA:O was 'balanced' (hah) around healing AND pots, so things did more damage. DA:I is balanced around pots & nades, if you add healing into that mix aswell it will unbalance the game. That might be ok for people who like to breeze through it on the easier modes, but those who enjoy a challenge will be FORCED to bring an extra healbot mage. As it stands, you can choose whoever the hell you like to make up your party, because all healing is none class specific. You don't even need a barrier mage... It's brilliant.

 

I honestly don't care if lower difficulty levels get full health regen out of combat, but I really, really don't want healing to be given back to mages (unless all classes get something similar).