436 réponses à ce sujet

[Taura-Tierno]

There is already a long-cooldown healing spell? Why are people requesting something that already exists? Have people missed the KE's focus ability? Long cooldown, but focus regenerates rather quickly, so you can use the level 1 version quite often. That is the long-cooldown healing spell everyone is looking for. 

I don't think it would be possible to balance a game between both having 12 potions and very little healing, and having plenty of healing spells and unlimited potions, simultaneously. Those are two very different systems. Introducing plenty of healing spells and balancing the game after that would more or less make healing bots, or least having a mage with those healing spells, mandatory. 

Personally, I like the fact that this forces you to think more before combats. I'm playing on normal, and I've only had to fast travel for potions a handful of times in the entire game. If you're having too much trouble, lower the difficulty. 

All in all, I think it's very fair that they're trying different systems with different games. Means that some of us who enjoy systems where healing bots aren't required get a chance to play in a system that doesn't have that. 

[shadownian]

The one thing that adds to this frustration is not only the fact that the choice of a healing mage was taken away from us.

But also what was left behind is lack luster at best. They basically took what we already had in the elemental magic tree and split it and made it 3 trees out of it and then added a gimped shield tree. So when a mage starts he basically has 2 trees to start with. Neither of which I care any for as a previous mage in the other games.

I was never a big elemental guy so to have that shoved down my throat is annoying and shields are ok, but not my style. Even the specializations dont exactly thrill me either.

People dont seem to get how limited Inquisitions mage is. Besides just the healing. Its to the point of being laughable.

 

Then add to that how they took away the ability to customize your characters points when you level. No more focusing on certain aspects like constitution or Intelligence, etc. Now its just, oh your a mage, so ya this is what you get, oh and your a warrior, this is what you get. The only thing you get to choose is an ability here and there and what pretty little dress you put on your barbie.

Its enfuriating how Bioware loves to strip down their games like this. They put out a game with love and attention to detail that fans flip over. Then they slowly strip it apart giving you less and less control, and making less and less sense, and tthey shine it up real nice and call it "streamlining", and all the Naive people buy into it because "Ewwww prettyyyyy"

/smh

[saladinbob]

Out of interest, Shadownian, are you a PC or Console player? On a side note to healing magic restored, give me back my Shapeshifting!

[MiyoKit]

Then they slowly strip it apart giving you less and less control, and making less and less sense, and tthey shine it up real nice and call it "streamlining", and all the Naive people buy into it because "Ewwww prettyyyyy"

/smh

 

Climb down off that high horse. Tell me, how was stacking a certain stat as high as you could to wear gear, choice? How was stacking cunning just to open locks & unlocking persuasion convos, choice? How was being forced to bring a healbot and an AOE bot, choice? All that crap has been removed, and you aren't 'naive' if you prefer it gone, you just have a preference...

 

Now, if you're talking about the importance of stat customisation in BG or NWN then you have an actual case, but you've never actually had a choice in any DA game unless you dribble through casual mode. Funnily enough, I now have MORE choice in DA:I in both what stats I'll get, what spells to spec into, and what classes to bring. My mage hating, sword & board dwarf isn't stuck carting around an annoying apostate (which I only coped with by way of the slap mod), and a spirit possessed OAP like she was in Origins...

[MiyoKit]

Out of interest, Shadownian, are you a PC or Console player? On a side note to healing magic restored, give me back my Shapeshifting!

 

Second this, a shapeshifting tree would have been awesome in DA:I

[dumbo]

Personally:

- mobs should not respawn unless I leave the map.  I don't care if there's a reason, it's [censored] annoying.  Maybe let 'patrols' respawn, but not camps?

- the "bears in the hinterlands" (and a few other mobs) need to be fixed.  I *think* they are spawning above the ground, fall a bit, take 0.1HP damage and decide "you did it", then charge across the map to retaliate.  Whatever the reason, this needs to be fixed (in the hissing wastes, something similar seems to amusingly happen to Rams - which become hostile, chase you, but can't attack).

 

But, personally I'm fine with no healers (although a better tactics system would help).

[shadownian]

Climb down off that high horse. Tell me, how was stacking a certain stat as high as you could to wear gear, choice? How was stacking cunning just to open locks & unlocking persuasion convos, choice? How was being forced to bring a healbot and an AOE bot, choice? All that crap has been removed, and you aren't 'naive' if you prefer it gone, you just have a preference...

 

Now, if you're talking about the importance of stat customisation in BG or NWN then you have an actual case, but you've never actually had a choice in any DA game unless you dribble through casual mode. Funnily enough, I now have MORE choice in DA:I in both what stats I'll get, what spells to spec into, and what classes to bring. My mage hating, sword & board dwarf isn't stuck carting around an annoying apostate (which I only coped with by way of the slap mod), and a spirit possessed OAP like she was in Origins...

First im a pc guy :-)

 

Second, how was it choice??

Easy cause I had th choice to stack that stat to wear that gear or not. I could dictate wether or not it was more important that my character got more health or strength instead of cunning or intelligence. I had that choice if I wanted to invest more in ability to evade or my ability to pick locks. All that was the definition of choice.

Nobody forced you to bring a "healbot" you again had potions and the choice to use them. How can you not see this??

And no other game in the sries told your mage hating dwarf to cart anyone around. If you wanted to have a party of just warriors and heal with potions you could. Nobody said any different. This game as far as its ability to customize your party doesnt add anything new...lol Idk where your getting that.

And how exactly do you have "MORE choice in DA:I in both what stats I'll get, what spells to spec into" when you cant adjust your stats at all, and your choice of spells has been cut down to next to nothing??

Im sorry but your making things up in order to justify all the ways your getting screwed. Idk if its fanboyism or an apologist mentality, but how you can not see it is just beyond me.

[MiyoKit]

First im a pc guy :-)

 

Second, how was it choice??

Easy cause I had th choice to stack that stat to wear that gear or not. I could dictate wether or not it was more important that my character got more health or strength instead of cunning or intelligence. I had that choice if I wanted to invest more in ability to evade or my ability to pick locks. All that was the definition of choice.

Nobody forced you to bring a "healbot" you again had potions and the choice to use them. How can you not see this??

And no other game in the sries told your mage hating dwarf to cart anyone around. If you wanted to have a party of just warriors and heal with potions you could. Nobody said any different. This game as far as its ability to customize your party doesnt add anything new...lol Idk where your getting that.

And how exactly do you have "MORE choice in DA:I in both what stats I'll get, what spells to spec into" when you cant adjust your stats at all, and your choice of spells has been cut down to next to nothing??

Im sorry but your making things up in order to justify all the ways your getting screwed. Idk if its fanboyism or an apologist mentality, but how you can not see it is just beyond me.

 

1) If you wanted to beat the game on the harder difficulties, you needed to wear decent gear. There was no choice in stacking stats to get that gear.

2) Harder difficulties were balanced around potions AND heal spells, so you needed both.

3) I had to bring two mages to beat the game on the harder difficulties.

4) You get stat bonuses from passive skills, and you aren't tied down into specific spells anymore = more choice.

 

Like I said, you could play the easier modes blindfolded, hands tied behind your back and afk. I find enjoyment in being challenged gameplay wise (not a criticism on those who don't, btw ). When the game is balanced around having specific spells, you take them or die. In DA:O that was Healing, AOE & CC all from mages...

 

I am not getting screwed at all, and I'm not making things up because I'm a fangirl or whatever else you want to chuck around. I am a person who has different opinions, preferences and gameplay styles to you. For ME DA:I offers ME more choice.

[Sidney]

I was someone who didn't like the idea of no regen and no healing. I hated the fight, fight, rest, fight, fight, rest of BG1/2.

 

They actually did this right where you can actually avoid damage. It takes some getting used and the mechanics are a bit obtuse and badly (to say the least) documented. Yes at early levels can suck but no more than getting killed by those poison arrow equipped Hobgoblins in BG1 did -- seriously who thought that a DoT weapon was a good idea to expose L1-3 characters to? Basically you have to tough it out to get both war cry and challenge and you are ready to rock n' roll - and a weakness is that people who dont understand guard because of said suck documentation won't buy those and also not prioritize them in tactics.

 

Once you get to level 5 everything becomes manageable unless you are punching outside your weight class and getting into those fights with level 12 demons and such.

[shadownian]

1) If you wanted to beat the game on the harder difficulties, you needed to wear decent gear. There was no choice in stacking stats to get that gear.

2) Harder difficulties were balanced around potions AND heal spells, so you needed both.

3) I had to bring two mages to beat the game on the harder difficulties.

4) You get stat bonuses from passive skills, and you aren't tied down into specific spells anymore = more choice.

 

Like I said, you could play the easier modes blindfolded, hands tied behind your back and afk. I find enjoyment in being challenged gameplay wise (not a criticism on those who don't, btw ). When the game is balanced around having specific spells, you take them or die. In DA:O that was Healing, AOE & CC all from mages...

Ok...

1. Yes you would need to wear decent gear, but you would choose when you got to wear that gear because you chose wether you needed more health or more strength at that moment. Ie. More choice.

2. Harder difficulties are meant to be hard, if having a healer is not something you wanted to do, you could either not play the harder diffculty, or play without mages for even more challenge. If you like challenge, then a warrior centric party would have just added to that.

3. You dont have to do anything. Its what you personally had to do to beat the game. Im sure there is somebody out there that beat the game without healers, with only warriors, with only rogues, who knows.

4. Yes you get stat bonuses from passives. but can i choose which passives i want when i want them?? NO. Can i go over them in over to get to the spells I want? No.

Is everything from the Ice, fire, and lightning mage trees all from 1, count em 1, skill tree in Origins? Yes.

 

Im not saying the passives are not nice, but they dont add to choice. You have to get them to move up the tree. And no matter how you look at it, the amount of spells a mage gets in Inquisition is no where near the other games, especially not Origins. So again, less choice.

I mean to me its pretty simple. lol

[Hexoduen]

It doesn't work like that... at all. DA:O was 'balanced' (hah) around healing AND pots, so things did more damage. DA:I is balanced around pots & nades, if you add healing into that mix aswell it will unbalance the game. That might be ok for people who like to breeze through it on the easier modes

 

I play Nightmare, I love a good challenge in Dragon Age, and prefer strategy and tactical gameplay over simple button-mashing - and I want the option to use healing spells back.

 

Inquisition would not be unbalanced, it depends on how those spells work. But they don't work, they've been ripped out - leaving us with fewer options in both character build and combat  (and breaking lore at the same time)

 

You know what was awesome? The spiritual predecessor to Dragon Age; Baldur's Gate 2. We had some 300 spells to choose from (not just damage spells and barriers) AND potions at the same time.

Want to bring a 6-man party chopping down every foe while only relying on potions? You can do that.

Want to bring a druid that can buff and protect your companions with defensive spells? You can do that.

Want to bring a cleric that can use an array of different healing spells for keeping everyone alive? You can do that.

 

Your choice, your characters, your combat strategy, deep RPG at its best, amazing

[shadownian]

Besides not everyone plays on the harder difficulties. Some play for the story. Again thats your choice.

 

Some play on normal and go thru the story with one class, maybe play again with another or two and call it a day.

Should those people be penalized because you like to play on the harder difficulties??

[MiyoKit]

I play Nightmare, I love a good challenge in Dragon Age, and prefer strategy and tactical gameplay over simple button-mashing - and I want the option to use healing spells back.

 

Inquisition would not be unbalanced, it depends on how those spells work. But they don't work, they've been ripped out - leaving us with fewer options in both character build and combat  (and breaking lore at the same time)

 

You know what was awesome? The spiritual successor to Dragon Age; Baldur's Gate 2. We had some 300 spells to choose from (not just damage spells and barriers) AND potions at the same time.

Want to bring a 6-man party chopping down every foe while only relying on potions? You can do that.

Want to bring a druid that can buff and protect your companions with defensive spells? You can do that.

Want to bring a cleric that can use an array of different healing spells for keeping everyone alive? You can do that.

 

Your choice, your characters, your combat strategy, deep RPG at its best, amazing

 

I agree BG is more in depth, but that's not actually a DA game? I would have preferred a more indepth RPG like that (spell wise etc:) but DA has pretty much never been that for me. It's always been limited on what you could do if you wanted to 'succeed'. DA:I actually opens up more ways I can play, and makes the class I enjoy most (archer) effective & miles more indepth (go look at the archer trees in both DA:O & DA:II...). No other DA game has done that for me .

 

@Shadownian - I give up. One day you'll understand people have different tastes / opinions to you, and that it isn't a negative judgement on their character... >.>

[shadownian]

I agree BG is more in depth, but that's not actually a DA game? I would have preferred a more indepth RPG like that (spell wise etc:) but DA has pretty much never been that for me. It's always been limited on what you could do if you wanted to 'succeed'. DA:I actually opens up more ways I can play, and makes the class I enjoy most (archer) effective & miles more indepth (go look at the archer trees in both DA:O & DA:II...). No other DA game has done that for me .

 

@Shadownian - I give up. One day you'll understand people have different tastes / opinions to you, and that it isn't a negative judgement on their character... >.>

I agree, the archer is better this time around. Its the only class to me that didnt absolutely suck. It just sucks that as an archer you have probably the least to add to the actual story but oh well....whatcha gonna do...lol

 

As far as people having different taste, im fine with that. In fact thats what im hoping to help when i say all this. DAI constricts the player, and offers less choice. Thats a fact. Just like you said with the archer, go look at the skills in DAO, they are much more diverse and numbered.

I dont mind if people have different taste, but to ignore facts and try to make excuses for it, that only hurts the gamer in the end. Cause any time you tell a develeoper that giving you less of anything is better, they are going to give you less. I mean why not, its easier on them. And if your ok with less of this, well maybe youll be ok with less of this too...and that. etc etc.

 

In any RPG the whole point is to play a role. To live as a character as you see fit. Any time you can give your player more choices, the better.

[Hexoduen]

I agree BG is more in depth, but that's not actually a DA game? I would have preferred a more indepth RPG like that (spell wise etc:) but DA has pretty much never been that for me. It's always been limited on what you could do if you wanted to 'succeed'. DA:I actually opens up more ways I can play, and makes the class I enjoy most (archer) effective & miles more indepth (go look at the archer trees in both DA:O & DA:II...). No other DA game has done that for me .

 

It's not a DA game no, and my wish is not for DA to turn into BG - they're two different games. My wish is that we have deep RPG mechanics where it's up to us as players how to build our character, and how to approach combat.

 

I agree that the archer is fun, but Inquisition for me as a mage feels more "on-rails" than ever - my favorite class turned boring and restricted (heck I can't even assign attribute points manually).

 

We should have had an improvement and building upon the system of Origins and DA2, instead of reinventing it with fewer options to boot.

[saladinbob]

The reason I asked about your platform was because there appears to be a disconnect between what PC players want and what Console players want which would further reinforce the need for separate development.

[MiyoKit]

It's not a DA game no, and my wish is not for DA to turn into BG - they're two different games. My wish is that we have deep RPG mechanics where it's up to us as players how to build our character, and how to approach combat.

 

I agree that the archer is fun, but Inquisition for me as a mage feels more "on-rails" than ever - my favorite class turned boring and restricted (heck I can't even assign attribute points manually, or decide I want to dabble in blood magic for that matter).

 

We should have had an improvement and building upon the system of Origins and DA2, instead of reinventing it with fewer options to boot.

 

I never really enjoyed mage in DA:O & II due to being 'forced' to pick certain things (and for me all the spells just felt like different flavours of the same thing anyway), so perhaps that's why I prefer DA:I's 'choices' more than previous games. In my opinion, the game has become more balanced in a way that as allowed none mage classes to shine, so I personally prefer it.

 

However, I wouldn't mind mages having more options (heals etc:) so long as every class has something similar. If mages get heals, so should rogues & warriors in some form. If they get CC, so should everyone else. AOE, same thing. So long as I'm not forced to bring mage #1 & #2, I'm happy .

 

In games like NWN I really enjoyed building my character exactly how I wanted, and I would welcome more choice in that department (multiclassing, dex warriors etc:). But if I need to sacrifice 'balance' to get there, I would rather what I get now.

 

Edit: @saladinbob I'm a PC player, there is no 'generic console player' or 'generic PC player'. People just like what they like .

[shadownian]

Miyo...I appreciate your opinion and i love a good debate, but what your saying...well...

 

Tgheres a reason why mages get the AOE's and the CC's, its becaose we lack in many other area. Say if a warrior gets some aoe's and cc's and what have you, they dont have the negative offset for getting those abilities. They still have thier heavy armor, high hit points, etc

 

The mage has to give up alot for his diversity and control. His armor is nothing but decorated clothes, his health is the bottom of the barrel, his agility is next to none. If other classes get abiltites like heals and supports, then that makes the mage irrelevant and the purpose for all his negative moot. So nobody would ever play a mage and we'd have nothing but warriors who could heal. lol

[shadownian]

Damn typos...wheres the edit button!?!? lol

[MiyoKit]

Miyo...I appreciate your opinion and i love a good debate, but what your saying...well...

 

Tgheres a reason why mages get the AOE's and the CC's, its becaose we lack in many other area. Say if a warrior gets some aoe's and cc's and what have you, they dont have the negative offset for getting those abilities. They still have thier heavy armor, high hit points, etc

 

The mage has to give up alot for his diversity and control. His armor is nothing but decorated clothes, his health is the bottom of the barrel, his agility is next to none. If other classes get abiltites like heals and supports, then that makes the mage irrelevant and the purpose for all his negative moot. So nobody would ever play a mage and we'd have nothing but warriors who could heal. lol

 

Mages make up for lack of armour in other ways (barriers, passives, range on their abilities etc:). Warriors are in the thick of it, so the armour offsets the melee issue. This is part of the reason why I really feel sorry for melee rogues at the moment, they really should have had better dmg reduction passives.

[saladinbob]

Mage = Ranged damage dealer/Healer/Crowd Controller. Get close and he's toast.

Rogue = Ranged or Melee damage dealer and relies upon high agility to dodge attacks.

Warrior = Melee damage dealer and/or tank and relies upon high armour rating and high hit points to survive.

 

If you add healing and crowd control to all classes then you remove the need for all classes and you simply have one uber-class which wouldn't make for a very interesting game. It also goes to the heart of the problem which is a removal of choice for the player. Removing healing and mixing up crowd control across a variety of trees simply removed diversity of choice from players who wish to be mages. It was a mistake that needs to be rectified.

[MiyoKit]

Mage = Ranged damage dealer/Healer/Crowd Controller. Get close and he's toast.

Rogue = Ranged or Melee damage dealer and relies upon high agility to dodge attacks.

Warrior = Melee damage dealer and/or tank and relies upon high armour rating and high hit points to survive.

 

If you add healing and crowd control to all classes then you remove the need for all classes and you simply have one uber-class which wouldn't make for a very interesting game. It also goes to the heart of the problem which is a removal of choice for the player. Removing healing and mixing up crowd control across a variety of trees simply removed diversity of choice from players who wish to be mages. It was a mistake that needs to be rectified.

 

Not true at all. The classes are balanced in DA:I, and I have a diverse make up of party members. My archer can CC & do AOE, so can mages & warriors. Having said that, if people do want to stack one class, they can do that. Why shouldn't they be able to? Why should the game force you to bring certain classes?

[Sartoz]

Ok...

1. Yes you would need to wear decent gear, but you would choose when you got to wear that gear because you chose wether you needed more health or more strength at that moment. Ie. More choice.

2. Harder difficulties are meant to be hard, if having a healer is not something you wanted to do, you could either not play the harder diffculty, or play without mages for even more challenge. If you like challenge, then a warrior centric party would have just added to that.

3. You dont have to do anything. Its what you personally had to do to beat the game. Im sure there is somebody out there that beat the game without healers, with only warriors, with only rogues, who knows.

4. Yes you get stat bonuses from passives. but can i choose which passives i want when i want them?? NO. Can i go over them in over to get to the spells I want? No.

Is everything from the Ice, fire, and lightning mage trees all from 1, count em 1, skill tree in Origins? Yes.

 

Im not saying the passives are not nice, but they dont add to choice. You have to get them to move up the tree. And no matter how you look at it, the amount of spells a mage gets in Inquisition is no where near the other games, especially not Origins. So again, less choice.

I mean to me its pretty simple. lol

 

Choice? This game is full of "choices have consequences". Did you not read the memo? LOL.

 

There is no need for more choices to play this game, It is what it is and you can play from start to finish. To beat this game, you need to adjust to its design and combat scope.

[shadownian]

Choice? This game is full of "choices have consequences". Did you not read the memo? LOL.

 

There is no need for more choices to play this game, It is what it is and you can play from start to finish. To beat this game, you need to adjust to its design and combat scope.

Lmao, dont get me started on the lack of choices in dialogue and real consequences in this game...lol

[saladinbob]

I never said AOE. Imagine a Warrior that can create walls to block off paths for some enemies, instil terror so that others run away, that can heal the party of any injuries, has a massive pool of HPs and Armour and pump out a ton of DPS. Why would you play any other class? The issue here is that a very high proportion of people (including the other thread) want the choice to be able to specialise in healing because it suits the way they play the game. There's a small minority of people who want to deprive them of that choice and dictate to them how they should play the game. Bioware is in this minority. We're asking them to please overhaul specialisations of magic and restore healing magic to us. If that's done as part of a DLC, then so be it.