436 réponses à ce sujet

[MiyoKit]

I never said AOE. Imagine a Warrior that can create walls to block off paths for some enemies, instil terror so that others run away, that can heal the party of any injuries, has a massive pool of HPs and Armour and pump out a ton of DPS. Why would you play any other class? The issue here is that a very high proportion of people (including the other thread) want the choice to be able to specialise in healing because it suits the way they play the game. There's a small minority of people who want to deprive them of that choice and dictate to them how they should play the game. Bioware is in this minority. We're asking them to please overhaul specialisations of magic and restore healing magic to us. If that's done as part of a DLC, then so be it.

 

I would play other classes because I want to? The warrior is melee, so perhaps I want a ranged class in my group aswell? Perhaps that warrior only has access to some of those abilities, due to being dps or tank? You talk about deprivation, but then say you want some things to be 'only mages'. Why deprive other classes? Why make one class more vital than any other?

[saladinbob]

If that's your choice, so be it but you seem to fail to realise it wouldn't be a warrior any more. You'd have to overhaul the entire game in order to have such generic classes introduced. I'm not trying to deprive you of your choice, I'm asking you in the politest possible way to make your own thread rather than attempting to derail this one. This thread is about the reintroduction of magic. Please either stay on topic and contribute or refrain from posting. I do not want it to descend in to petty bickering because I would very much like Bioware to take this thread seriously.

[MiyoKit]

If that's your choice, so be it but you seem to fail to realise it wouldn't be a warrior any more. You'd have to overhaul the entire game in order to have such generic classes introduced. I'm not trying to deprive you of your choice, I'm asking you in the politest possible way to make your own thread rather than attempting to derail this one. This thread is about the reintroduction of magic. Please either stay on topic and contribute or refrain from posting. I do not want it to descend in to petty bickering because I would very much like Bioware to take this thread seriously.

 

Warriors currently have a barrier equivilent, AOE and CC and they still feel like warriors... I'm not derailing the thread at all. This thread is about the reintroduction of healing for mages & out of combat regen, I contributed to the discussion by saying other classes should also get a form of healing it if it is reimplimented. The reason I've given is because in previous games, where mages were the only healers, we were forced to bring them along. It is exactly on topic, and discussions are just that; discussions. They are not a collective head nodding.

[shadownian]

Here...something like this should have been introduced from the start.

 

http://strawpoll.me/3173971

[shadownian]

Actually ill just port that in a new thread...that way its right at the start and cant be missed....

[CronoDragoon]

It is clumsy and flawed. Look around the forums and you'll see the constant bitching about having to fast travel.

 

What I see is people refusing to properly learn the combat mechanics of this game which are designed around the idea of not taking damage to begin with.

 

Using potions is a last resort, a sign that you did something wrong in the fight. If you properly utilize the damage mitigation/prevention mechanics the game gives you (which are copious) then you won't need them at all. Of course, nobody's perfect and stuff happens (especially with crappy party AI), which is why the potions are there to begin with.

[saladinbob]

I'm sorry Miyo, I still don't understand where you're coming from. Currently all classes currently have a form of healing by way of Potions. For many of us that's what's wrong with the game. It requires us to farm when we have neither the time nor the inclination to do so because it sucks the fun out of the game. A non-mage having healing magic would not make the slightest sense.

[l3loodpimp]

Keep dreaming,

 

    First off all, keep in mind that the game mechanic has already been set, and adding a subclass/tree now or even trying to balance the existing one might totally break it (remember Dragon Age: Awakening?). The some class of this game are totally broken in their own way, we do not need another one on top of it.

 

 

   I enjoy healing/tanking, and mostly play those classes on a RPG, but Dragon Age: Inquisition has so many tool to prevent damage that adding a dedicated healer would just be god mod at this point.

   If you keep on shrugging health potion at every combat to the point to have to fast travel at every quest, you're doing it wrong. Find a way to understand the game mechanics and it's synergy instead of crying for something you do not have. Or outlevel the content you are playing...

 

 

   Plus, with all the bugs and fix already in the game, I do not see Bioware pouring the little resources they already have to comply to a such tiny thing. Forums, redit, and every social form of web communication is only used by a fraction of the population. Like it or not EA/Bioware will not be able to answer every little request of the community while working on the upcoming DLC.

   Your best bet is to hope for a healer DLC 10$, then let the AI roflstomp the game in nightmare while you are AFK.

 

 

    I rather prefer Bioware to work on a way to improve the behavior screen on Dragon Inquisition that to see any new skill tree, but even then I doubt they will have the time to do so.

[BammBamm]

I'm sorry Miyo, I still don't understand where you're coming from. Currently all classes currently have a form of healing by way of Potions. For many of us that's what's wrong with the game. It requires us to farm when we have neither the time nor the inclination to do so because it sucks the fun out of the game. A non-mage having healing magic would not make the slightest sense.

 

when you use the given system properly you neither have to farm for potions nor port always to the camp, so this argument is simple invalid. but because nearly everyone that wants heal spells brings mostly this argument, i'm pretty sure most of them dont use the new system as intended and so its logical that it is not fun. what you dont use cant be fun

[MiyoKit]

I'm sorry Miyo, I still don't understand where you're coming from. Currently all classes currently have a form of healing by way of Potions. For many of us that's what's wrong with the game. It requires us to farm when we have neither the time nor the inclination to do so because it sucks the fun out of the game. A non-mage having healing magic would not make the slightest sense.

 

Warriors could have an adrenaline-type ability causing people to heal wounds faster. Rogues could have healing salves or what not. It doesn't have to be magic, perhaps that's why you misunderstood me.

 

This is my point of view:

 

In DA:O & DA:II I was forced to bring mages because they could heal. The game was designed around mages having this ability, and was balanced around it. So two of my party slots were just taken up from the get-go (that doesn't include the CC & AOE only mages had access to in those games). In DA:I, I am able to fill my group up with whoever I want because the removal of healing magic, along with the universal access to pots and the AOE / CC skills rogues / warriors get, means that all classes are 'equal'. The reintroduction of healing magic only for mages would disrupt this balance, and once again I would be forced to bring them (because the game would then be balanced around mages having heals).

 

As for needing to farm: you don't. You can send your advisors off to get herbs & you can also buy them from merchants in the area. On top of that, you don't need things like healing grenades (the only heals you need to farm for) unless you're up against a Dragon (and this is on the harder difficulties). Instead, this game has focussed on avoiding damage (barriers, evasion, fade steps, guard, CC).

[shadownian]

Keep dreaming,

 

    First off all, keep in mind that the game mechanic has already been set, and adding a subclass/tree now or even trying to balance the existing one might totally break it (remember Dragon Age: Awakening?). The some class of this game are totally broken in their own way, we do not need another one on top of it.

 

 

   I enjoy healing/tanking, and mostly play those classes on a RPG, but Dragon Age: Inquisition has so many tool to prevent damage that adding a dedicated healer would just be god mod at this point.

   If you keep on shrugging health potion at every combat to the point to have to fast travel at every quest, you're doing it wrong. Find a way to understand the game mechanics and it's synergy instead of crying for something you do not have. Or outlevel the content you are playing...

 

 

   Plus, with all the bugs and fix already in the game, I do not see Bioware pouring the little resources they already have to comply to a such tiny thing. Forums, redit, and every social form of web communication is only used by a fraction of the population. Like it or not EA/Bioware will not be able to answer every little request of the community while working on the upcoming DLC.

   Your best bet is to hope for a healer DLC 10$, then let the AI roflstomp the game in nightmare while you are AFK.

 

 

    I rather prefer Bioware to work on a way to improve the behavior screen on Dragon Inquisition that to see any new skill tree, but even then I doubt they will have the time to do so.

See the thing is, if you go for healing you wont get all the barriers and all the extras, or that will be all you get. Remember, you only have so many points. If you want to heal and yet still have some offensive magic, your more than likely to skip over the mind tree altogether.

As far as potions, healing could be limited and still keep the need for potions (untill you get to top tier spells), could even be limited to HOTs, ie heals over time. Because as was pointed out earlier in lore healing takes time.

Or as i said if it was made as a specialty, you could have a npc offer to help the inquisition and offer to teach you(the mage player) healing magic. Which could get the potion maker upset and force you to choose between the two. If you choose healing magic, the potion maker leaves and never comes back. If you choose potions, the same happens to the healer.

[shadownian]

Warriors could have an adrenaline-type ability causing people to heal wounds faster. Rogues could have healing salves or what not. It doesn't have to be magic, perhaps that's why you misunderstood me.

 

This is my point of view:

 

In DA:O & DA:II I was forced to bring mages because they could heal. The game was designed around mages having this ability, and was balanced around it. So two of my party slots were just taken up from the get-go (that doesn't include the CC & AOE only mages had access to in those games). In DA:I, I am able to fill my group up with whoever I want because the removal of healing magic, along with the universal access to pots and the AOE / CC skills rogues / warriors get, means that all classes are 'equal'. The reintroduction of healing magic only for mages would disrupt this balance, and once again I would be forced to bring them (because the game would then be balanced around mages having heals).

 

As for needing to farm: you don't. You can send your advisors off to get herbs & you can also buy them from merchants in the area. On top of that, you don't need things like healing grenades (the only heals you need to farm for) unless you're up against a Dragon (and this is on the harder difficulties). Instead, this game has focussed on avoiding damage (barriers, evasion, fade steps, guard, CC).

Again its about choice.

If you dont want to be a healing mage, dont make one and the game will never change for you. We just want the choice.

Potions can still be in the game and still be used by players who dont want a healer in thier group. Were not talking about a new companions healer here. So nobody would force you to have one.

[shadownian]

Also i dont get this idea of HAVING to bring healing mages in DAO. DAO still had healing potions just like DAI does, heck even better than DAI because you werent limited to only 8..lol.

So if you prefer the potions over the magic, why not just use more potions in DAO?? lol

[BammBamm]

Again its about choice.

If you dont want to be a healing mage, dont make one and the game will never change for you. We just want the choice.

Potions can still be in the game and still be used by players who dont want a healer in thier group. Were not talking about a new companions healer here. So nobody would force you to have one.

 

to be fair, its a balancing thing. imagine people could have two tanks, one barrier mage, potions and ADDITIONAL an unlimited healing mage. when you want to balance things that this combination cannot roflstomp absolutely everything you would have to make the difficulty so high that at least on heal mage is needed. so no more freedom of choice. you cannot put a new powerful mechanic in a balanced system and think this would work well in any way. and to say just dont use it if you dont like is exactly the same as saying just dont buy a game without heal spells if you want some.

[Hexoduen]

to be fair, its a balancing thing. imagine people could have two tanks, one barrier mage, potions and ADDITIONAL an unlimited healing mage. when you want to balance things that this combination cannot roflstomp absolutely everything you would have to make the difficulty so high that at least on heal mage is needed. so no more freedom of choice. you cannot put a new powerful mechanic in a balanced system and think this would work well in any kind. and to say just dont use it if you dont like is exactly the same as saying just dont buy a game without heal spells if you want some.

 

I'm not advocating for the return of the exact same healing spells as in Origins and DA2, 'cause I agree that this would unbalance the current combat system. With the right design, however, I see no problem with a healer - it would just be up to Bioware to make healing spells work differently (as in not unlimited spam-heal).

 

Cutting them out completely? That's the easy solution, and it made Inquisition a little less RPG.

[shadownian]

I'm not advocating for the return of the exact same healing spells as in Origins and DA2, 'cause I agree that this would unbalance the current combat system. With the right design, however, I see no problem with a healer - it would just be up to Bioware to make healing spells work differently (as in not unlimited spam-heal).

 

Cutting them out completely? That's the easy solution, and it made Inquisition a little less RPG.

Exactly. They could be limited to heals over time. As in lore healing magic takes time.

They could let the player make the choice between potions or healing magic in game and pretty easily.

Your limited on points so you cant have a mage thats a healer and a barrior type and an offensive mage as well.

Were also talking just the player characters having healing magic, dont want healing magic in your game? Dont make a mage and or dont choose to use healing magic.

Its all about choice. Why some feel the need to dictate to others how to play a game is beyond me.

[BammBamm]

I'm not advocating for the return of the exact same healing spells as in Origins and DA2, 'cause I agree that this would unbalance the current combat system. With the right design, however, I see no problem with a healer - it would just be up to Bioware to make healing spells work differently (as in not unlimited spam-heal).

 

Cutting them out completely? That's the easy solution, and it made Inquisition a little less RPG.

 

basically they did exactly this......they limited healing through limited potions.

[shadownian]

Btw...straw poll results so far...

20 votes for healing to return in some form

14 votes for potions only (stay the same)

1 voter still doesnt care either way. lol

[shadownian]

http://strawpoll.me/3173971

[BammBamm]

Btw...straw poll results so far...

20 votes for healing to return in some form

14 votes for potions only (stay the same)

1 voter still doesnt care either way. lol

 

to count two possibilities as the same against one possibility is highly influencing. would there be an additional possibilty for example  "i like damage avoiding but would wish more cc possibilties" or "damage avoiding is fine but better ai is needed" it would be another result. as it is its like pro healing or absolutely satisfied with the given system

[Hexoduen]

basically they did exactly this......they limited healing through limited potions.

 

Well at least that made me laugh, so thx

No seriously, I'd rather have an array of healing spells to choose from and build a spirit healer, than primarily having one option for heal; potions. I get why Bioware wanted to change healing, but they should have done that, change it, not butcher it.

[fakk'an]

Two of the biggest criticisms of this game is the amount of fetch quests you need to do and the amount of times you need to fast travel back to your camp to heal, only to then have to fight your way back to where you need to go to because the respawn times are so fast. Both these issues are a direct consequence of the removal of healing magic and out of combat auto-healing. It makes you have to rely more on health potions which increases the rate of consumption of them. That in turn requires you to go hunting (especially in the early game) for Elfroots to create more. This was an idea that might have looked good on paper but doesn't work as a game mechanic because it forces the player in to repetitive and boring activities that sucks the fun out of their game. Not everyone has the time to spend hunting around for forty to sixty elfroots to restore your party's potions.

 

By bringing back either healing magic of out of combat healing you remove the over reliance upon potions which in turn makes camp travel and fetch questing for elfroots less frequent. If you restored healing magic you could make it its own dedicated tree which would mean any healing mage will have limited combat magic available to them which I feel would be a fair trade off. But at the very least bring back the latter as it was in Origins so that your health automatically restores to 100% after combat ends which again will lessen the burden on your potions and camp travel to make for a more enjoyable game.

 

Ive actualy gottn used to travel back to camp now and again. Not that much of a bother most of the time, not after upgrading max potions anyway. Then again, Im playing on normal. I can see this being a bigger issue on harder difficulities.
The one thing I would like to change is to remove the animation from picing up herbs. That get tedious after some hundred times..

[shadownian]

to count two possibilities as the same against one possibility is highly influencing. would there be an additional possibilty for example  "i like damage avoiding but would wish more cc possibilties" or "damage avoiding is fine but better ai is needed" it would be another result. as it is its like pro healing or absolutely satisfied with the given system

Well how was I supposed to word it? The poll is on healing, not CC's or shields. Which i personally think we have enough of as is.

Theres either return healing magic to what it was, return it as a specialty, not at all, or I dont care. I thought that pretty much covered the different possibilities without having to write a huge description for each one..lol

[BammBamm]

Well how was I supposed to word it? The poll is on healing, not CC's or shields. Which i personally think we have enough of as is.

Theres either return healing magic to what it was, return it as a specialty, not at all, or I dont care. I thought that pretty much covered the different possibilities without having to write a huge description for each one..lol

 

its a matter of choice. while for healing you have the option to define what would you more like, for not healing there is none, only im totally fine as it is. i think personally that with the potions are enough healing in the game, so is this a reason to influence a poll?

[Hexoduen]

to count two possibilities as the same against one possibility is highly influencing. would there be an additional possibilty for example  "i like damage avoiding but would wish more cc possibilties" or "damage avoiding is fine but better ai is needed" it would be another result. as it is its like pro healing or absolutely satisfied with the given system

 

I agree with the number of possibilities yes, but not with your example. If the poll was created for damage avoidance vs. healing the example is fine, but that's a different question. The poll is about healing magic vs healing potions. Would you rather have the simpler and restricted heal system based on potions, or would rather have more options for mage character build and combat strategy?

I'm all RPG on this