436 réponses à ce sujet

[BammBamm]

I agree with the number of possibilities yes, but not with your example. If the poll was created for damage avoidance vs. healing the example is fine, but that's a different question. The poll is about healing magic vs healing potions. Would you rather have the simpler and restricted heal system based on potions, or would rather have more options for mage character build and combat strategy?

I'm all RPG on this

 

but heal magic is replaced with damage avoiding and not with potions (in former games you got both)

[b10d1v]

Never say never, especially if enough people get behind it.  That said, some issues:

 

Healing out of battle is simple a mod of the constitution parameter, although traditionally very slow it could be very useful in dungeons w/o the ability to jump out.

The heal spell Bethany used in DA2 was similar to DAO's Creation line and it was weak, but useful. However, DAI is a bit spell burdened at times and a weak healing spell would add to the the problem, so passive or attached to another spell is better.

Spirit healing like Anders or "Blondie" in DA2 could also be added via the existing spirit tree where willpower and stamina already reside and work like proximity healing that potions can have. This could be done via a quest, but precedence is to have Solus teach -  "Blondie" taught the entire spirit tree.

 

Potions have too many issues to list and most are just too weak to consider wasting a slot. Don't think Playing the game ever made the schedule or the effect time and scaling issues would have shown up.

The existing Proximity healing from potions seems to have issues: main character, it works most of the time, but not on team mates. This one needs validation - too many related bugs to be sure.  

 

The whole distribution of herbs and crafting needs a revamp -they are not enemies, the drop should not change with level.  For instance picking herbs should double with experience (or perk) and then have a chance of more and killing a ram should always provide leather and wool without the population falling off.  The burden imposed by using only potions and so many quests - only so much rinse and repeat is tolerable - even if you choose to buy items, it would be nice to see what a store has from the map.

[shadownian]

Point is, if enough people want it Bioware can add healing magic back in, without forcing it on those who dont want it. The whole idea of them taking it out completely and making excuses as to why that is, is just laziness. Plain and simple. It was easier to just get rid of it than come up with a system that works with it.

Now what it comes down to is who will get behind it coming back, and who will try to force their playstyle on those who dont care for it.

Just like I dont care if you keep your potions, I dont want you telling me I cant heal with magic.

Theres should be room for both.

 

As far as incorporating it into other existing trees. No.

Then you have to go thru trees you dont care for to have , what maybe one or two abilities. No thank you. I would still not play a mage like that.

A dedicated skill tree of its own, either as a normal mage or a specialist is whats needed.

[Hexoduen]

but heal magic is replaced with damage avoiding and not with potions (in former games you got both)

 

And I like the damage avoiding options, they're cool and bring new tactics to combat However, why butcher another aspect of DA? Healing spells 

 

Why give with one hand, while taking away with the other? Why not build upon Origins and DA2, keeping an array of healing spells in the game - but designing it as to avoid the unlimited spam-healer (up the mana cost for healing, etc.). Make it optional for people if they want to bring a healer at all, or if they want to rely on potions.

 

The people at Bioware who are behind Inquisition are brilliant, I'm sure they could've designed it differently given time and ressources. Here's me hoping I'll bump into a true spirit healer in a future DLC or expansion pack.

[saladinbob]

Here's the irony in all this. You have people saying that with Barrier spamming you're virtually invulnerable. How is this any different to healer spam making you virtually invulnerable? All Bioware did was trade one way of creating the problem with another so they haven't actually achieved anything.

[shadownian]

And what is purely comical about this change is that to make up for it they stick crates of it anywhere they realize 'oh this potion bit won't work here' so they know that even within their own missions and quests it's stupid as hell. All it's done is create more nuisance and a false sense of challenge.

 

I solo killed a damn dragon using only 2 regens and one healing relying on guard to keep me alive. Took forever but it's not impossible to do however, I did that alone. Had I kept wasting my time reviving my companions only to watch them die or chug potions I would have run out were it not for the reserves they don't use. This is terrible design because they make it an action game then the AI uses the potions and you don't. Then when you need them you have two left. I was better off leaving the crappy AI dead. If this is their idea of a challenge, making crappy AI that needs to use potions then limiting them so I cannot when I really need them, they need to rethink their ideas of challenge.

 

Nevermind that now I have to go to camps an that moves me away from my goals because the maps are too vast and without health regen out of battle, you now have to hope you will not need that health and keep going back to camp then trekking back to where you were. More outposts at smaller intervals would have made this more idea, but even then it's just stupid to have it at all.

Not to mention how theres another thread talking about the KE that basically says its overpowered because of its shields. Then you have other people saying no this class is op, then you have others saying that almost any class can be made to be OP if done right. You got people killing Dragons on Nightmare difficulty solo, but yet your concerned about a little healing magic?!?

[shadownian]

My last restart of the game I made an albino elf, because you know hair is too hard for Bioware..lol. And as much as I like him, I just so want to make him over as a mage, its just too bad the mage is so gimped options wise, but yet at the same time, overpowered. Its an odd combo.

 

My Albino Elf Archer.

[Thibax]

I have no problems with healing spells.

I would love to see healing spells back, I like to create healers.

Healing spells doesn't break the game.

If you don't like healing, don't use it. Simple!

Healing magic exist in the past games, so why not in DAI?

So many changes, just to create a challenge game?

Where's the DA lore? 

Healing spells unbalance the game? It looks like a cheap excuse to keep the game more harder.

[shadownian]

Voting has started to slow down....

30 votes for healing to return in some form...

16 for potions

2 people now dont care...lol

 

I posted links on youtube reviews of the game along with a link to this thread so hopefully we get more opinions on this subject.

[sunnydxmen]

those who want healing back will have to wait for the next dragon age game cause its too late for this one.

[shadownian]

those who want healing back will have to wait for the next dragon age game cause its too late for this one.

"Too late?? No such thing as too late"

Blood sport reference

 

But seriously its not too late. The game just came out is still in the big fix phase, we havent even hit the "we should have put this in so you get this update for free phase, nevermind the dlc phase. So we got plenty of time. lol

[sunnydxmen]

"Too late?? No such thing as too late"

Blood sport reference

 

But seriously its not too late. The game just came out is still in the big fix phase, we havent even hit the "we should have put this in so you get this update for free phase, nevermind the dlc phase. So we got plenty of time. lol

 

 such false hope just like when people begged to have me3 ending change to their liking with no success at all, i have no problem with healing returning infact i love being  a healer was one in the last games ,but lets realistic what are the chances of them adding when the game was made to not have it all so  have to say this it wont happen i wont have false hope on something that might happen.

[saladinbob]

I played a Mage (amongst others) in Origins and I loved it, especially the Arcane Warrior. I even went Mage in DA2 and whilst not as good as Origins, was still enjoyable. On my second playthrough in Inquisition I can tell you I am not enjoying being a Mage one iota. Spells have too long a cool down, use too much Mana, don't do enough damage and so are, well, just boring. So I'm faced with being this gimped out Mage that can't heal, can't deal damage and struggle may way through another playthrough, or specialise as Knight Enchanter and destroy everything in my path solo because it's so over powered. Let's face it, Magic in Inquisition is a mess and needs completely re-working.

[Lady Mutare]

I do not see why if Ias a casual gamer want heath regen back at casual level. i didnt ask that you be forced to use health regen, I asked that it be available for those of us who wish to use it. This is not an MMO.  I do NOT want to have to go back to a camp.  If I have the magic to teleport back to a camp, I should have the magic to heal.

[b10d1v]

Sometimes I wonder if we are all playing the same game.  In any event, the problem I had earlier with regenerative potion proximity effects seems to have fixed itself after a crash, probably just another warning that a stability issue is leading to a crash.

[shadownian]

Thing that gets me is the developers were so worried (suposely) about players making a healer and having it be too easy because of it, but yet they create specialty classes like the KE that are so overpowered that people beat dragons solo without taking damage at all.

 

That makes no sense.

 

And its not like they replaced healing with some cool other magic trees or abilties. The mage abilities in general are severely limited and boring. And alot has been taking away.

I still love what somebody said before....that in the next game mages will just swing sticks around...lol

 

And i bet people will still defend it.

[shadownian]

Not to mention it doesnt exactly make alot of sense that I can just go over to other characters and kneel besides them for a few seconds and magically resurrect them...lol

 

Its almost like a fps game in that respect.

[saladinbob]

Let's expand the point out to the wider dumbing down of Magic. For those who haven't played Origins, haven't played in a long while, or didn't know about this, you had spell combos. Here's the list:

 

http://dragonage.wik...ll_combinations

 

This is interesting magic. This is why Magic in Origins was a joy to play.

 

You also had Shapeshifting spells. The list is here:

 

http://dragonage.wik...eshifter#Spells

 

Imagine the potential of these spells in this Engine? This was very popular among Origins players so here we are with an advanced engine producing shiny new graphics and did Bioware build and expand upon this popular feature? No, the leave it out after it being cut in DA2, further dumbing down the magic that was already dumbed down in that game.

 

Magic has reached a state in this game where it's either so pathetically under powered as to not be worth your investment, or turns you in to a Jedi Master Knight Enchanter capable of soloing anything the game can throw at you using nothing but your Lightsabre Spirit Blade.

[b10d1v]

I played a Mage (amongst others) in Origins and I loved it, especially the Arcane Warrior. I even went Mage in DA2 and whilst not as good as Origins, was still enjoyable. On my second playthrough in Inquisition I can tell you I am not enjoying being a Mage one iota. Spells have too long a cool down, use too much Mana, don't do enough damage and so are, well, just boring. So I'm faced with being this gimped out Mage that can't heal, can't deal damage and struggle may way through another playthrough, or specialise as Knight Enchanter and destroy everything in my path solo because it's so over powered. Let's face it, Magic in Inquisition is a mess and needs completely re-working.

My mage is at 20 with 79 magic now and you do get better and can oneshot some enemies, but other enemies have such ridiculous health and shield recharge that they take a long time, nearly an order of magnitude over the typical 2 minute fight. This is a design issue, my staff is doing various damages and the creatures are immune to most shots making the mage virtually useless. Dragons, in particular, require a lot of effort w/o throwing up a shield.  This forces you to hold position (if it works) and fire from extreme range when the potions run out.  A healing spell could make a big difference keeping folks on the field, but the disproportionate scale is the issue.

[BammBamm]

If you don't like healing, don't use it. Simple!

Healing magic exist in the past games, so why not in DAI?

So many changes, just to create a challenge game?

Where's the DA lore? 

Healing spells unbalance the game? It looks like a cheap excuse to keep the game more harder.

 

if you want to play a healer, dont play da:i, simple too

 

problem is da:i is because of his size filled with a huge amount of not really challenging fights. but the limited healing give more weight to every single fight because you are punished with camp porting and herb farming when you take the not so hard fights not serious. play every combat proper and you will have non of this problems even on highest difficulty. but yeah, such a huge game would be great fun when nearly every combat would be hollow without any kind of need to play it just a little tactical. maybe they should add a -kill enemy command so you doesnt waste your time with boring fights

 

**** the lore, game mechanics are always more important than lore. they recognized the unlimited healing thing wouldnt work in a game that changed the gameplay contrary to the former parts and addressed it

 

and to say they are not unbalancing the game is a cheap excuse for healing. nobody said how they could do it just saying they should balance it out. by the way they did it with limited healing potions (you know, healing is still in the game), although hexoduen finds it funny its the way bioware controlled the healing issue. and while the willing to have heal spells is only just a matter of personal preference the adding of one of the most powerful mechanics in a existing and balanced gamemechanic is a real problem and not a matter of taste.

 

 

and for KE, yes the class is highly op, but instead of nerfing that one you want another op mechanic for the game. do you recognize how silly this is?

[saladinbob]

Part of the problem, b10d1v, is that spells no longer rely on spellpower which was removed, rather they now do a percentage multiplier of the weapon you're carrying and so because staffs have no where near the damage potential of melee weapons (for obvious reasons), they're only ever as powerful as the staff you're carrying.

 

In Origins you had Spellpower which could be augmented with weapons and spells which in turn would be as powerful as your spellpower stat was high. What this basically meant is that spells levelled up as you increased that particular stat where as in Inquisition, spells only level up as you obtain access to better weapons but your weapon damage is a fixed stat. Spellpower was increased by you increasing your magic stat so you could create some really powerful spells and do tremendous damage with your staff but at the expense of willpower, of you could build to spam spells with higher pools of willpower or take the middle ground. Again it was about presenting the player with freedom of choice that DAI has simply removed.

[strangerism]

I don't think it's worth to spend all this energy fighting the healing system, it's such a huge change and wont make any difference overall (a system for another system with all the pro and cons). I think it will be better to improve on things we have already like tactical camera and ai tactics. That really would impact the game overall, considering it is the less developed part of this game.

[b10d1v]

And I like the damage avoiding options, they're cool and bring new tactics to combat However, why butcher another aspect of DA? Healing spells 

 

Why give with one hand, while taking away with the other? Why not build upon Origins and DA2, keeping an array of healing spells in the game - but designing it as to avoid the unlimited spam-healer (up the mana cost for healing, etc.). Make it optional for people if they want to bring a healer at all, or if they want to rely on potions.

 

The people at Bioware who are behind Inquisition are brilliant, I'm sure they could've designed it differently given time and resources Here's me hoping I'll bump into a true spirit healer in a future DLC or expansion pack.

Just because someone had a bad experience with healing spells spamming on some mmo is no reason to drop them here.  I agree that the behavior modeling damage avoidance is helpful when it works, but it's generally useless for area attacks.  I also agree that what we have seen is more of a process problem and not a people problem - We clearly see issues where people are not on the same page, with DA2 style armor for instance.  Even the discussions, MMO or single player - Hello we have 4 team mates! Not compatible with an MMO!  Bethesda forgot that little fact with ESO.  How could management not know the PRG effort was so far behind schedule?  Some people posted that they would not buy the game if healing was removed- that's pretty straightforward.  Maybe Bioware has been slow to adopt process improvement, but they should it works well when you rotate people!

[saladinbob]

if you want to play a healer, dont play da:i, simple too

 

problem is da:i is because of his size filled with a huge amount of not really challenging fights. but the limited healing give more weight to every single fight because you are punished with camp porting and herb farming when you take the not so hard fights not serious. play every combat proper and you will have non of this problems even on highest difficulty. but yeah, such a huge game would be great fun when nearly every combat would be hollow without any kind of need to play it just a little tactical. maybe they should add a -kill enemy command so you doesnt waste your time with boring fights

 

**** the lore, game mechanics are always more important than lore. they recognized the unlimited healing thing wouldnt work in a game that changed the gameplay contrary to the former parts and addressed it

 

and to say they are not unbalancing the game is a cheap excuse for healing. nobody said how they could do it just saying they should balance it out. by the way they did it with limited healing potions (you know, healing is still in the game), although hexoduen finds it funny its the way bioware controlled the healing issue. and while the willing to have heal spells is only just a matter of personal preference the adding of one of the most powerful mechanics in a existing and balanced gamemechanic is a real problem and not a matter of taste.

 

 

and for KE, yes the class is highly op, but instead of nerfing that one you want another op mechanic for the game. do you recognize how silly this is?

 

Your opening statement is about as stupid a comment as I've ever seen. Nonetheless, i appreciate that there where issues with Healing Magic, the point people are making is that there are more elegant solutions to that problem than simply taking the entire thing out of the game, especially when a high proportion of your customer base didn't want it taken out in the first place and very much want it put back in so that they have the freedom to choose how they play the game they paid their hard earned money for. The bottom line is no one likes their freedom of choice being removed and that's applies to this game as much as it does any part of life.