180 réponses à ce sujet

[SarEnyaDor]

It is a lot easier to forgive a friend than a lover. If you romanced him, I feel his lie becomes unforgivable.

He is really well written though. I don't hate him at all, though some of my Quizzies do LOL

[Han Shot First]

IMO sentencing Blackwall to the Wardens is always the most sensible choice regardless of how the Inquisitor may feel about Blackwall personally.

 

He is an outstanding warrior and has leadership ability, and as such would be an asset to the Wardens. And the Grey Wardens don't really give a damn about your past so long as you're really good at making things (especially darkspawn) dead. And the Wardens are going to need replacements after the events of DA:I.

 

Also being sent to the Wardens is no reward. It requires getting poisoned by the Blight, and the act of Joining itself is potentially fatal. If you survive you then spent the rest of your days fighting an endless war. And it's a war that you'll eventually die in. Sending him to the Wardens is a death sentence of sorts, the only difference between that and the planned hanging for him in Val Royeux is that it also provides Blackwall an opportunity to atone before he dies.

[Thrazesul]

I get a little a Skyrim feeling of Blackwall (If you've played the game you'll know what I mean) especially with the quote "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" and yeees I know it's far from exactly the same. But I can't shake it off.

 

Beyond that, you'll either hate or like Blackwall. Changing someone's opinion isn't going to work here. No matter what you think of him though, you can't deny he's definitely caused a debate, just like Anders did.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Well it's been mentioned before, but Sten also murdered children. And he knew what he was doing, he was just to traumatised to stop himself. Whereas Blackwall was unaware they were there.
Then you've got Zevran, who happily murdered people for money.
Isabella who carelessly left innocents to die by the Qunari's hands whiles she scarpered with the relic.
Leiliana who actively worked to deceive and kill people as part of the 'game'.

I think you're just determined to hate him for your own personal reasons, and nothing anyone says is gong to change your mind. But once you've put things into perspective, you see that the worst part of his crime was a complete accident that he deeply regrets. I'd say dedicating his life to making the world a better place is better than needlessly killing him to fix a wrong that can't ever be righted anymore anyway.

 

Yeah, morally he isn't very high on the list by any means but he isn't the lowest of the low either. Isabela for example directly led to the death of hundreds (and this very probably includes children)) by Qunari because she wanted to save her precious little neck, people still remember her as the lovable rogue for some reason if if she was barely repentant. You also got, Zevran, Sten, Leliana, Anders, who are all pretty unsavory too. 

 

Let's be real, the companions of Dragon Age often aren't the nicest bunch. It's a bit hard to take a moral high ground when the PC kills hundreds of people per game and has a retinue of soldiers, mages and assassins. Against world-ending menaces like Cory, that's fine, but Blackwall is tearing himself so much over what he did, going further just seems like overkill to me.

[SomberXIII]

MORALE TALK! 

Personally, I always let him live because he's better in leadership than most people of Thedas.

[Kohaku]

Yeah, morally he isn't very high on the list by any means but he isn't the lowest of the low either. Isabela for example directly led to the death of hundreds (and this very probably includes children)) by Qunari because she wanted to save her precious little neck, people still remember her as the lovable rogue for some reason if if she was barely repentant. You also got, Zevran, Sten, Leliana, Anders, who are all pretty unsavory too. 

 

Let's be real, the companions of Dragon Age often aren't the nicest bunch. It's a bit hard to take a moral high ground when the PC kills hundreds of people per game and has a retinue of soldiers, mages and assassins. Against world-ending menaces like Cory, that's fine, but Blackwall is tearing himself so much over what he did, going further just seems like overkill to me.

 

This is why I liked Dorian. He actually calls the Inquisitor out for just that. He said something like, "Oh never mind that you kill your fair share." The Inquisitor was like, "But they are bad!" Dorian pretty much gave her the side eye and said it's splitting hairs but whatever. That's the one thing I dislike about games like this, you're asked to kill hundreds in scores but no one ever sees it. You're always the hero no matter what you do or how it takes to get there. I guess the hero road is paved in blood.

[Han Shot First]

Yeah, morally he isn't very high on the list by any means but he isn't the lowest of the low either. Isabela for example directly led to the death of hundreds (and this very probably includes children)) by Qunari because she wanted to save her precious little neck, people still remember her as the lovable rogue for some reason if if she was barely repentant. You also got, Zevran, Sten, Leliana, Anders, who are all pretty unsavory too. 

 

 

People tend to give characters a pass for doing really awful things if they are charming. That is why Isabela doesn't catch as much flak as Blackwall, even though she's arguably far worse as a human being. She's a pirate, which mean she routinely murders innocent people for a money. Blackwall did it once whereas Isabela made an entire career out of it. And she once dumped slaves she was transporting into the ocean to lighten her own ship to make an escape. 

 

The difference however is that Isabela is extremely charismatic and often quite funny, whereas Blackwall is kind of serious and gruff most of the time. If Blackwall had been a carefree jokester there would probably be far less complaining about him being Thom Ranier. Zevran is another example of that at work. 

[EdwinLi]

From what i understand how the crime happened it was...

 

1) He got orders to attack the Noble from his higher up and provide him some extra gold to convince him.

 

2) He was only expecting armed guards.

 

3) He gave the Order

 

4) He suddenly hears the nursary rhymes during the attack

 

5) When he figured out what was happening and the Noble's family was there as well it was already too late to call off the attack and his men had already killed everyone.

 

6) His Higher Up that gave him the order escapes from being framed for the crime due to his connections and lives a nice life free from anyone knowing he was the one who gave Blackwall the Orders.

 

7) Blackwall and his men are placed with the Crime. 

 

8) Blackwall then flees and the rest we know.

[Vanth]

That's the one thing I dislike about games like this, you're asked to kill hundreds in scores but no one ever sees it. You're always the hero no matter what you do or how it takes to get there. I guess the hero road is paved in blood.

 

That is true for pretty much every real life hero who ever existed. 

[reeferdemon]

It's so easy to act honorable and perfect behind a computer screen in the modern era.

 

People **** up, some people **** up worse than others. Some people feel bad, some people don't. Everyone is afraid and everyone reacts differently to fear. What you do after that fear, when you have a clear head again should be what we judge. How someone reacts to the wrong they've done, in my mind, is more important than what they've done. I'm not saying it should discount what they've done or that they shouldn't be punished, and honestly, the punishment he deserves for what he's done depends on one's personal moral compass and sense of justice but I feel like people are forgetting that they don't know what it's like to be in his position.

[Ibn_Shisha]

I use 2 sword & boarders in my dragon squad, so blackwall doesn't hang. (Maybe when I do a s&b Quizzy I can kill him, or respec bull sometime)

[OHB MajorV]

It's so easy to act honorable and perfect behind a computer screen in the modern era.

People **** up, some people **** up worse than others. Some people feel bad, some people don't. Everyone is afraid and everyone reacts differently to fear. What you do after that fear, when you have a clear head again should be what we judge. How someone reacts to the wrong they've done, in my mind, is more important than what they've done. I'm not saying it should discount what they've done or that they shouldn't be punished, and honestly, the punishment he deserves for what he's done depends on one's personal moral compass and sense of justice but I feel like people are forgetting that they don't know what it's like to be in his position.

I'm not acting perfect and my honor isn't something I can judge, that is left to those who know me. I can say this though, if not murdering children gives me moral high ground, consider me proud to stand on that hill!

[reeferdemon]

I'm not acting perfect and my honor isn't something I can judge, that is left to those who know me. I can say this though, if not murdering children gives me moral high ground, consider me proud to stand on that hill!

You misunderstood my point. And I'm not presuming to know what you've been through, so this isn't directed at you alone, but people are talking about a situation they understand from the outside. Most people these days live sheltered lives with much less violence then those in the Dragon Age setting and I feel like people need to take a step back and realize that Blackwall/Thom was giving more opportunity to make terrible decisions than they will in their life and as such they don't know how they would react in his situation.

[OHB MajorV]

You misunderstood my point. And I'm not presuming to know what you've been through, so this isn't directed at you alone, but people are talking about a situation they understand from the outside. Most people these days live sheltered lives with much less violence then those in the Dragon Age setting and I feel like people need to take a step back and realize that Blackwall/Thom was giving more opportunity to make terrible decisions than they will in their life and as such they don't know how they would react in his situation.

From the time you are old enough to understand the concept of free will you are given an opportunity to do terrible things. Most people choose not to do the most heinous things because we understand right from wrong. All I'm saying is that those who do should be punished as such.

[reeferdemon]

From the time you are old enough to understand the concept of free will you are given an opportunity to do terrible things. Most people choose not to do the most heinous things because we understand right from wrong. All I'm saying is that those who do should be punished as such.

I suppose you're right about free will and all that, I suppose my argument should focus more on the change that Thom's deeds brought about.

 

I'm not disagreeing as far as punishment, because to let people do things without repercussion breeds a social acceptance to moral apathy and sociopathic tendencies, however, I feel that the person that Thom became after what he's done (and that's a funny choice of words considering the circumstance) has merit. Though I won't argue changing his identity is drastic and hardly a rational reaction, but it seems like he's a frightened human being who is afraid of the person he was and doesn't know how to cope with it. It's pitiable. It is admirable that, even in such a skewed way, he has become a better person after the event when the opposite is true for most people. I guess I'm just not sure if people have considered that, I'm not necessarily trying to change minds or say I know what is what better than anyone I just felt like it's something to consider.

[Myusha123]

Here's essentially the deal. 

Blackwall was going to kill a noble for Celene. Anticipated only guards. Children were there too and the order had already been sent to his men.
(Reminds me of Samara "When I kill someone, do I really want to know they were a good father?")

His men were the ones who killed the children. Blackwall? He said some words and people died. His orders, but not even his sword, his hands, or his direct actions. 
But his soldiers, his company are his comrades. What he just made them do, he feels sick and deplorable for. An accident yes, but he feels that he should've known. 
The heinous act of butchering children gets publicity. And in that moment Blackwall runs. 

Blackwall doesn't know what to do. A warden comes along, sees worth and recruits him, dies protecting him. Blackwall can't simply strode up to Weisshaupt and say, you know that one relatively famous warden? He died protecting me from some worthless Hurlock and wanted me to be a Warden. 

So you know what he does? He becomes Blackwall, and does good. All the good Thom Rainer does as Blackwall isn't even attributed to himself. It's toward the dead man who saved him when he thought himself worthless.  Then he chooses to join the Inquisition. 

He gives resources, yes, conscription documents yes, but really? The Inquisition by the point Blackwall reveals his lie, is powerful enough that this discrepancy is pointless. Either the Wardens ARE aligned with them now, or considering they initially believed the threat to be an Archdemon, were relatively justified due to their response and action compared to the inactive Wardens who were at fault at the Conclave for Justinia's death and raising a demon army. 

But here's Blackwall for you. A ball of regret.
He regrets getting the info on his target fucked up.
He regrets sending his men to do something so heinous. 
He regrets killing those children.
He regrets letting a good warden die instead of him. 
He regrets letting his men take the fall on his order.
He regrets being Thom Rainer.
He regrets making the Inquisition waste their resources trying to put him on trial in their own courtroom instead of being hung in Orlais. 

So he saves lives, trains people to defend themselves, can end up fighting demons, monsters, rogue murderous templars and mages who've done far more damage than him, dragons, and everything in-between. No hesitation, no reservations. He puts everything on the line to prove, that the murder, that mistake isn't who he is, isn't what defines him. 

You can make him live the lie, he finally felt he could let down and die for. 
You can make him honor the TRUE Blackwall's conscription and make amends to the Wardens this way.
You can make him put down his demons and be free. 

When you consider Loghain, Anders, Isabela, Sten, Zevran, Cole, Velanna, Leliana...Blackwall doesn't seem so despicable. 
Loghain butchers an entire army for his plot.
Anders starts the Mage Rebellion.
Isabela has tossed slaves into the ocean.
Sten killed an entire family of farmers. 
Zevran killed people for a living.
Cole killed Templars and Mages alike for mercy killings. 
Velanna attacked and killed humans believing they were behind Seranna's disappearance. 
Leliana's bard life, and her life as Spymaster can get so many killed. 

Blackwall? He kills one family and he spends an entire lifetime seeking redemption. Judge his methods if you will, but he can do more good alive than dead.  And if you don't believe that, guess what he did? He was willing to die, voluntarily. So if he could've done more good with his death, he goes to it willingly.   That's the kind of man Blackwall really is. 

[EdwinLi]

Here's essentially the deal. 

Blackwall was going to kill a noble for Celene. Anticipated only guards. Children were there too and the order had already been sent to his men.
(Reminds me of Samara "When I kill someone, do I really want to know they were a good father?")

His men were the ones who killed the children. Blackwall? He said some words and people died. His orders, but not even his sword, his hands, or his direct actions. 
But his soldiers, his company are his comrades. What he just made them do, he feels sick and deplorable for. An accident yes, but he feels that he should've known. 
The heinous act of butchering children gets publicity. And in that moment Blackwall runs. 

Blackwall doesn't know what to do. A warden comes along, sees worth and recruits him, dies protecting him. Blackwall can't simply strode up to Weisshaupt and say, you know that one relatively famous warden? He died protecting me from some worthless Hurlock and wanted me to be a Warden. 

So you know what he does? He becomes Blackwall, and does good. All the good Thom Rainer does as Blackwall isn't even attributed to himself. It's toward the dead man who saved him when he thought himself worthless.  Then he chooses to join the Inquisition. 

He gives resources, yes, conscription documents yes, but really? The Inquisition by the point Blackwall reveals his lie, is powerful enough that this discrepancy is pointless. Either the Wardens ARE aligned with them now, or considering they initially believed the threat to be an Archdemon, were relatively justified due to their response and action compared to the inactive Wardens who were at fault at the Conclave for Justinia's death and raising a demon army. 

But here's Blackwall for you. A ball of regret.
He regrets getting the info on his target fucked up.
He regrets sending his men to do something so heinous. 
He regrets killing those children.
He regrets letting a good warden die instead of him. 
He regrets letting his men take the fall on his order.
He regrets being Thom Rainer.
He regrets making the Inquisition waste their resources trying to put him on trial in their own courtroom instead of being hung in Orlais. 

So he saves lives, trains people to defend themselves, can end up fighting demons, monsters, rogue murderous templars and mages who've done far more damage than him, dragons, and everything in-between. No hesitation, no reservations. He puts everything on the line to prove, that the murder, that mistake isn't who he is, isn't what defines him. 

You can make him live the lie, he finally felt he could let down and die for. 
You can make him honor the TRUE Blackwall's conscription and make amends to the Wardens this way.
You can make him put down his demons and be free. 

When you consider Loghain, Anders, Isabela, Sten, Zevran, Cole, Velanna, Leliana...Blackwall doesn't seem so despicable. 
Loghain butchers an entire army for his plot.
Anders starts the Mage Rebellion.
Isabela has tossed slaves into the ocean.
Sten killed an entire family of farmers. 
Zevran killed people for a living.
Cole killed Templars and Mages alike for mercy killings. 
Velanna attacked and killed humans believing they were behind Seranna's disappearance. 
Leliana's bard life, and her life as Spymaster can get so many killed. 

Blackwall? He kills one family and he spends an entire lifetime seeking redemption. Judge his methods if you will, but he can do more good alive than dead.  And if you don't believe that, guess what he did? He was willing to die, voluntarily. So if he could've done more good with his death, he goes to it willingly.   That's the kind of man Blackwall really is. 

 Well it is about time someone let it all out about why Blackwall is a good character.

 

The fact he is willing to spend his entire life to atone for his crime is a rare thing to see people do willingly in a world full of fed up situations.

 

Yes his order to his men did result in the death of innocent people due to bad info but even today he tries hard to atone for that crime. Heck he even goes and trains civilians so they can defend their own families. 

 

Loghain on the other had full information about what he was doing and did not accept what he did was wrong unless the Warden force him to atone for his crimes as a Warden. Once Loghain appears in DAI he even admits that what he did was wrong in DAO and not accepting it until he became a warden lead to many more mistakes he could have avoided but all of this was only possible because the Warden forced him to atone by making Loghain become a Warden.

[OHB MajorV]

Here's essentially the deal.

Blackwall was going to kill a noble for Celene. Anticipated only guards. Children were there too and the order had already been sent to his men.
(Reminds me of Samara "When I kill someone, do I really want to know they were a good father?")

His men were the ones who killed the children. Blackwall? He said some words and people died. His orders, but not even his sword, his hands, or his direct actions.
But his soldiers, his company are his comrades. What he just made them do, he feels sick and deplorable for. An accident yes, but he feels that he should've known.
The heinous act of butchering children gets publicity. And in that moment Blackwall runs.

Blackwall doesn't know what to do. A warden comes along, sees worth and recruits him, dies protecting him. Blackwall can't simply strode up to Weisshaupt and say, you know that one relatively famous warden? He died protecting me from some worthless Hurlock and wanted me to be a Warden.

So you know what he does? He becomes Blackwall, and does good. All the good Thom Rainer does as Blackwall isn't even attributed to himself. It's toward the dead man who saved him when he thought himself worthless. Then he chooses to join the Inquisition.

He gives resources, yes, conscription documents yes, but really? The Inquisition by the point Blackwall reveals his lie, is powerful enough that this discrepancy is pointless. Either the Wardens ARE aligned with them now, or considering they initially believed the threat to be an Archdemon, were relatively justified due to their response and action compared to the inactive Wardens who were at fault at the Conclave for Justinia's death and raising a demon army.

But here's Blackwall for you. A ball of regret.
He regrets getting the info on his target fucked up.
He regrets sending his men to do something so heinous.
He regrets killing those children.
He regrets letting a good warden die instead of him.
He regrets letting his men take the fall on his order.
He regrets being Thom Rainer.
He regrets making the Inquisition waste their resources trying to put him on trial in their own courtroom instead of being hung in Orlais.

So he saves lives, trains people to defend themselves, can end up fighting demons, monsters, rogue murderous templars and mages who've done far more damage than him, dragons, and everything in-between. No hesitation, no reservations. He puts everything on the line to prove, that the murder, that mistake isn't who he is, isn't what defines him.

You can make him live the lie, he finally felt he could let down and die for.
You can make him honor the TRUE Blackwall's conscription and make amends to the Wardens this way.
You can make him put down his demons and be free.

When you consider Loghain, Anders, Isabela, Sten, Zevran, Cole, Velanna, Leliana...Blackwall doesn't seem so despicable.
Loghain butchers an entire army for his plot.
Anders starts the Mage Rebellion.
Isabela has tossed slaves into the ocean.
Sten killed an entire family of farmers.
Zevran killed people for a living.
Cole killed Templars and Mages alike for mercy killings.
Velanna attacked and killed humans believing they were behind Seranna's disappearance.
Leliana's bard life, and her life as Spymaster can get so many killed.

Blackwall? He kills one family and he spends an entire lifetime seeking redemption. Judge his methods if you will, but he can do more good alive than dead. And if you don't believe that, guess what he did? He was willing to die, voluntarily. So if he could've done more good with his death, he goes to it willingly. That's the kind of man Blackwall really is.

Maybe that's the man you see, but you conveniently left out the part where he lied to his men about why they needed to kill this man, that the one and only reason he accepted the job was money. Justify his actions however you want but you're wrong here.

Compare him to others we have crossed paths with if it helps you see him in a different light. The inquisitor doesn't have a chance to judge all those other people , only blackwall. He didn't spend his life doing good, he spent his life doing the job of the man he stole the identity of simply to hide from the justice he knew he deserved.

If it was your family he murdered and his lawyer argued that "well yes he killed those people but ever since he's taught Sunday school, and Hitler killed way more people so let him walk" an the judge was like "ok yeah hitler was worse crimes absolved" I seriously doubt you would take the stance you have taken here.

Just because other people have done worse doesn't excuse what Blackwall has done. A man should be judged by his actions alone not those of otheres. You see a man trying to atone for his crimes while I see a man living a lie to protect himself from those who would see him pay his debt to society.

[inko1nsiderate]

It blows my mind people are defending this guy. I agree the noose is probably too good for him but there isn't an option for torture so it will have to do. You don't get to come back from murdering children. That kind of behavior isn't redeemable. I would like his ass in front of skyhold ah la Vlad the Impailer style if the game was dark enough to let me, but apparently murdering kids is a few rungs down the ladder from impailing someone whilst living.

Eh, there are different conceptions of justice.  Killing him takes him away, and can be seen as punishment.  But there are thoughts about justice that involve having people who have committed crimes give back to the communities they've damaged.  Nothing can really replace or make the crime better, but there is still the potential for good things to be done by the criminal that otherwise wouldn't happen.  So even though the good acts can't make up for the horrible crime, if the good acts don't happen the world can be said to have lost something in comparison to the alternative.  In that respect, having him join the Wardens means he IS going to die a violent death but before then he is going to have to save a lot of lives.  Sure, maybe someone else could have saved those lives, but that's not guaranteed.  Forcing him to save lives before he dies a gruesome death in the Deep Roads?  That's can count as justice for me because he will basically only live to serve others before his gruesome death in the Deep Roads.  Maybe not as visceral as letting him hang, but whatever: there is a solid argument that sending him to the Grey Wardens is a form of justice.  Whether or not you believe that is the correct way to view justice is another matter entirely.

That being said though, what I am disappointed in is that you can't free him, and then have the inquisition execute him.  He chooses death, so why not use the power of the Inquisition to give him a public forum to explain WHY he must die and how it is his choice, and then give him the fate he desires?  He made the choices he did, and so that means he chose death (both literally and figuratively).  I'd love that option.  It would be the first, solid, purely philosophical middle finger to the Qun.  Actions define essence, not the other way around #SuckItPlato (Iron Bull Greatly Disapproves).  It would also allow Inquisitors who feel violated by his betrayal some option to get vengeance too.  But once again, whatever.

[OHB MajorV]

Eh, there are different conceptions of justice. Killing him takes him away, and can be seen as punishment. But there are thoughts about justice that involve having people who have committed crimes give back to the communities they've damaged. Nothing can really replace or make the crime better, but there is still the potential for good things to be done by the criminal that otherwise wouldn't happen. So even though the good acts can't make up for the horrible crime, if the good acts don't happen the world can be said to have lost something in comparison to the alternative. In that respect, having him join the Wardens means he IS going to die a violent death but before then he is going to have to save a lot of lives. Sure, maybe someone else could have saved those lives, but that's not guaranteed. Forcing him to save lives before he dies a gruesome death in the Deep Roads? That's can count as justice for me because he will basically only live to serve others before his gruesome death in the Deep Roads. Maybe not as visceral as letting him hang, but whatever: there is a solid argument that sending him to the Grey Wardens is a form of justice. Whether or not you believe that is the correct way to view justice is another matter entirely.

That being said though, what I am disappointed in is that you can't free him, and then have the inquisition execute him. He chooses death, so why not use the power of the Inquisition to give him a public forum to explain WHY he must die and how it is his choice, and then give him the fate he desires? He made the choices he did, and so that means he chose death (both literally and figuratively). I'd love that option. It would be the first, solid, purely philosophical middle finger to the Qun. Actions define essence, not the other way around #SuckItPlato (Iron Bull Greatly Disapproves). It would also allow Inquisitors who feel violated by his betrayal some option to get vengeance too. But once again, whatever.

All valid points, I would like to have taken his head myself as well. Much like Ned stark, I don't like doing it, but justice is justice.

[Myusha123]

Maybe that's the man you see, but you conveniently left out the part where he lied to his men about why they needed to kill this man, that the one and only reason he accepted the job was money. Justify his actions however you want but you're wrong here.

Compare him to others we have crossed paths with if it helps you see him in a different light. The inquisitor doesn't have a chance to judge all those other people , only blackwall. He didn't spend his life doing good, he spent his life doing the job of the man he stole the identity of simply to hide from the justice he knew he deserved.

If it was your family he murdered and his lawyer argued that "well yes he killed those people but ever since he's taught Sunday school, and Hitler killed way more people so let him walk" an the judge was like "ok yeah hitler was worse crimes absolved" I seriously doubt you would take the stance you have taken here.

Just because other people have done worse doesn't excuse what Blackwall has done. A man should be judged by his actions alone not those of otheres. You see a man trying to atone for his crimes while I see a man living a lie to protect himself from those who would see him pay his debt to society.

(On a sidenote, fucked up. He was hired to KILL a Celene Supporter by a Gaspard Supporter. I thought it was the other way around. ****. )

He lied to protect himself? Sure.

But he could've just ****** ran. Could've done nothing. He's saved more lives alive than he would've dead. He's done more good compared to that meager bad.
And the main POINT is that people hate on Blackwall for his actions of killing that family. BUT LOOK AT ALL THESE OTHER ASSHOLES, THAT PEOPLE LIKE. That rarely show as much regret as him. Who lead worse, horrible lives. 

Leliana butchers people as Divine if you don't nanny her, and has no qualms or regret over their dissenting opinions.  This is a person your Inquisitor associates and even befriends on a regular basis. You can even COMMEND her if you choose to do so over her public displays of ruthlessness. 

Blackwall doesn't murder more people unless the Inquisition or self-defense demands it, doesn't try to justify the murder. He took coin to play the Grand Game, made the biggest mistake of his life, and abused the loyalty of patriots. 

And if you see man hiding, I see this. He ATONES. He WILLINGLY SACRIFICES HIS LIFE when he is ready. Not entirely fair, true. But he doesn't hide forever, doesn't make you rat out his lies, and when he makes this sacrifice he politely tells you to screw off so he can MAKE AMENDS WITH HIS DEATH.

Do you think any of the other characters, Inquisitor met or not, have the balls, or DESIRE to want to do that? Sten and Cole are the only ones that comes to mind. 

Look at the Warden. Technically he can get someone's little girl possessed by a demon, but do everything else right in the world, stop the Fifth Blight and save everyone's lives. Would it have been to have axed him the moment he did that bad action?

[stonerbishop]

My last quisitor exiled him after Adamant because he "is a warden" as far as she knows. Out of the South with all of you!

[MoonDrummer]

I like blackwall

[Patchwork]

The Grey Wardens is actually a horrible punishment, my Inquisitor has no way of knowing it but life as a warden is pretty damn awful. No one survives the Joining it either kills you fast or kills you slow and if it doesn't kill you outright you suffer from nightmares, constant hunger, infertility, if you survive long enough the taint will drive you mad and then there's the matter of the Deep Roads suicide.  

 

The Wardens have good PR out of necessity if people knew what it was really like no one would join, they'd even struggle during a Blight. 

[Sardoni]

That applies to Blackwall too though. You have the initial deception, but I don't see how that hurts anything except your feelings.
Blackwall is also remorseful and admits fully that he is at fault. Being hanged was his way of atoning and accepting his fate. You can choose to give Blackwall a chance to get become a better person. You can also leave Blackwall in his cell and walk away letting the guards eventually execute him. As the game develops you realise that the things Blackwall said before his revelation actually make a lot more sense in hindsight and (excepting his imposing as a Warden) rarely contradicts what he's revealed.
 

 

I still have to disagree, because the only time I saw Zevran show any regret was in regards to killing his lover. In fact, you get disapproval from him if you say anything negative about his profession and he call him out on enjoying killing. So he never struck as remorseful.
Blackwall on the other hand showed plenty of remorse - so much so that he actually wanted to die. And his banter with Cole also demonstrates that he has a guilty conscience.
 

 

That all sounds like an incredibly convenient handwave on your part. It doesn't change the fact that Isabella sacrificed the slaves on the boat and the people of Kirkwall in order to save her own skin. Likewise, Blackwall sacrificed his men to save himself. They are both as bad as each other.
 

 

Again, lying is hardly the worst thing any of our companions have done. His deception may have hurt your feelings, but that's about all it could have done.
 

 

I agree, I think that is a fitting punishment. I am not claiming that he is innocent of wrongdoing and shouldn't be punished, I am arguing that 1) he is not the first companion we've had who has done terrible things and 2) he truly regrets his crime and that giving his life as forfeit (either in the Inquisition or the Wardens) to save innocents is a much better course of action than killing him to make everyone feel better about a crime he can't take back.

 

We can let the prior companion discussions go.  At the end of the day they were who they said they were from the get go.

 

It's hard to gauge the passing of time in DA:I so let me just use the example of two years.

 

You are a detective.  Two years ago you got a new partner from a far off district.  After two years you've just learned that your partner stole the identity of the person who should've been your partner because that person died to protect him while bringing him into the witness protection program.  Your current partner was afraid to be implicated in your original partner's death so he pretended to be the one who died in the attack.  Queue fancy modern way of switching personal identifying marks.  Your current partner decided to come clean when sentencing came down for a seemingly unrelated matter would've declared another man guilty for a crime that your current partner ordered him to do as part of a the mob... hence the witness protection.

 

A modern day twist on the story doesn't make him any more redeemable.  Just because "he did good" for two years while pretending to be someone he isn't doesn't make him a better person.

 

 

Yea, I think Blackwall is going to be the polarizing character of Inquisition.  Each person interprets the characters how they choose (one of the best part of these games) and you obviously see his flaws as a deal breaker for you. There's nothing wrong with that. Your game, you paid for it, you get to play how you choose.  We can debate his merits and flaws back and forth for several more pages, but I don't see either of us budging on our stance, which just means we're chatting in circles at this point.  So, I'm willing to call it at this point.
 

At least it's been a civil debate by BSN standards and I thank you for the discussion.

 

Indeed!  Unless there's more DLC I think we're both firmly in our camps