180 réponses à ce sujet

[OHB MajorV]

Everyone who thinks he's been on the path of redemption since assuming blackwalls name, keep in mind, for all the good he said he wanted to do, he never drank the dark spawn blood to become a Warden. That to me is the nail in the coffin when it comes to redemption and repentance vs self serving hiding and lying.

[Daerog]

Yes, they were a victim of a crime. But the definition of redeemable is something that can be corrected. Stealing can be corrected by giving the stolen item back. 

 

I don't stop him from doing that. He just does so under my custody. 

 

Blackwall was able to correct his behavior and his person, so while the crime couldn't be corrected, Blackwall is able to be corrected and so he is redeemable, while the crime isn't. That's one way to view it.

 

Still, the time that was lost cannot be returned, so even the crime of stealing cannot completely be corrected. When things are stolen, it is not just about the items themselves.

 

As for putting him under the custody of the Inquisition, cheers to that, that's fine, it is a measure to make sure he continues doing what he is doing in a more formal way. It's more killing him or giving him supernatural cancer that I think is wrong (unless there was a Blight and the Wardens weren't in complete disarray).

 

I personally don't think the custody part is necessary, but putting him in custody doesn't change anything either, so, either of those makes sense to me.

[Daerog]

Everyone who thinks he's been on the path of redemption since assuming blackwalls name, keep in mind, for all the good he said he wanted to do, he never drank the dark spawn blood to become a Warden. That to me is the nail in the coffin when it comes to redemption and repentance vs self serving hiding and lying.

 

True.

 

He did not know how to do the Joining.

He wanted Blackwall to live and for Thom to be dead.

Blackwall was already a Warden, so going to the Wardens for the Joining would just kill Blackwall and keep Thom alive.

 

Also, he is a coward. He is scared. Not everything he did was super good, but he was getting on the right track and was able to fully get on the right track with the Inquisition if the Inquisitor let's him.

 

Edit: Also, for years he didn't own up to his past mistake, and only was able to when he joined the Inquisition. Some of his soldiers were executed for his mistake while he was in hiding.

[RobRam10]

Everyone who thinks he's been on the path of redemption since assuming blackwalls name, keep in mind, for all the good he said he wanted to do, he never drank the dark spawn blood to become a Warden. That to me is the nail in the coffin when it comes to redemption and repentance vs self serving hiding and lying.

I'm sorry but what? How can he drink the Darkspawn blood when doesn't know about the Joining? GW recruits are told to get Darkspawn blood they aren't told about drinking it. Besides the Joining has some magic involved it isn't just simpy drinking the blood.

[Kendaric Varkellen]

Everyone who thinks he's been on the path of redemption since assuming blackwalls name, keep in mind, for all the good he said he wanted to do, he never drank the dark spawn blood to become a Warden. That to me is the nail in the coffin when it comes to redemption and repentance vs self serving hiding and lying.

 

At the time of the true Blackwall's death, Rainier would be unlikely to have known what exactly the joining entails. Sure, he knew he would need darkspawn blood for something, but beyond that he wouldn't have been given any knowledge about the ritual itself. Also bear in mind that the blood used in the joining needs to be specifically prepared according to what Duncan tells us in DA:O, which apparently requires a mage (again according to Duncan's words).

[Ryzaki]

People tend to give characters a pass for doing really awful things if they are charming. That is why Isabela doesn't catch as much flak as Blackwall, even though she's arguably far worse as a human being. She's a pirate, which mean she routinely murders innocent people for a money. Blackwall did it once whereas Isabela made an entire career out of it. And she once dumped slaves she was transporting into the ocean to lighten her own ship to make an escape. 

 

The difference however is that Isabela is extremely charismatic and often quite funny, whereas Blackwall is kind of serious and gruff most of the time. If Blackwall had been a carefree jokester there would probably be far less complaining about him being Thom Ranier. Zevran is another example of that at work. 

 

Well yeah can you blame us for not liking the buzzkill?

[RobRam10]

Well yeah can you blame us for not liking the buzzkill?

[Tentacles]

Sounds like you're emotionally attached to a video game character. I threw the Josie thing in for humor. And I've already stated I sent him to the wardens in my cannon playthrough but after some reflection I regret it. Say instead of some noble family it was revealed that he killed hawkes brother leaving there home, would you still be so forgiving?

I had to make a forum account just to comment this.

 

If Blackwall killed Carver I don't think there is any possible way of expressing my graditiude, Hawke may feel the same way.

[berelinde]

Leliana: Calmly orders the murder of an informant, murders a priest in cold blood, and almost every War Table operation she solves seems to involve an assassination. Is totally unrepentant and eligible to become the next Divine.

Sera: Brutally beats a man to death. Is pleased with herself about it.

Blackwell: acting on bad info, orders his men to kill everyone in a carriage, finds out too late they're children, not bodyguards, spends the rest of is life trying to atone for the crime. When he surrenders, he asks the Inquisitor to leave him to his fate.

 

Leliana is lauded as a paragon of virtue, despite the cold-blooded murders she repeatedly commits (with the Inquisitor's sanction). Sera... well, opinion is divided, but I've never heard anybody asking for the option to execute her. Surprisingly, a lot of people seem to believe that Blackwell is more morally repugnant than either Leliana or Sera. I sometimes wonder if we played the same game.

 

The Colliers are dead. Hanging Blackwell won't bring them back. If Blackwell is freed, he *chooses* to live a life of atonement, which he also does if turned over to the Wardens. At least if you do that, some good will have come out of it. Dead, he's just one more victim of the Game. 

 

(As an aside, I actually found myself *liking* Leliana this time around. She was a lot less cloying. No one was more surprised than me.)

[Hazegurl]

What gets me about blackwall is the fact that even allying with the GW isn't enough to make him confess. Wouldn't it had been the perfect opportunity? We have GW allies he can access to become a real GW. Yet all he does is tend to the stables. smh.

[Ryzaki]

What gets me about blackwall is the fact that even allying with the GW isn't enough to make him confess. Wouldn't it had been the perfect opportunity? We have GW allies he can access to become a real GW. Yet all he does is tend to the stables. smh.

 

I'm still baffled I have to wait til after the winter palace for him to be exposed. Even if I took him on all the Into the Abyss quests. He really should've been exposed then.

[Daerog]

What gets me about blackwall is the fact that even allying with the GW isn't enough to make him confess. Wouldn't it had been the perfect opportunity? We have GW allies he can access to become a real GW. Yet all he does is tend to the stables. smh.

 

Well, it wasn't really about being a GW. It was about the original Blackwall and the good aspects of the Wardens.

 

He was still scared, and scared until the day of that one soldier's execution. He had a letter about it for a while, but only confessed when the day came up.

 

This was a tragedy he did not want to face for a very long time, if he went to the Wardens, he would have to be Thom again. As the Wardens would wonder why a Grey Warden would need to do the Joining again.

[Hazegurl]

I'm still baffled I have to wait til after the winter palace for him to be exposed. Even if I took him on all the Into the Abyss quests. He really should've been exposed then.

Right, and what gets me is I actually used him to talk some sense into the GWs during that quest and like a true lying champ he bellows on about the honor of being a GW et al. He's a pretty good liar, I'll give him that. lol!

 

@Daerog,  That's understandable, he was scared, but still. He choose to keep the lie going when he had a chance to face up to it. It's like the longer he holds off the worse it gets, IMO.  I can understand an Inquisitor telling him to p*ss off and punish him accordingly.

[OHB MajorV]

I'm sorry but what? How can he drink the Darkspawn blood when doesn't know about the Joining? GW recruits are told to get Darkspawn blood they aren't told about drinking it. Besides the Joining has some magic involved it isn't just simpy drinking the blood.

But yet he's training warden recruits when we meet him, doubtful they're his first. This in in contradiction to your statement, so I'm sorry, but what?

[OHB MajorV]

Either way regardless of how you feel it's a good debate, one that should take place. It makes you think outside the context of just the game and in a small way displays how you feel about the justice system, capital punishment and being rehabilitated.

[EdwinLi]

Interesting debate yes.

 

Off-topic: this discussion reminds me that they have yet to explain the fate of the Noble who paid Blackwall to perform this event.

 

From what I understand this Noble got away scott free from his involvement due to his own connections. 

 

Blackwall may have been the tool but the one who planned the entire event still living the good life complete free from any risk over being the mastermind from what Blackwall told me when I asked about his past after he returned to the Inquisition.

 

It would have been interesting if Blackwall provide us a Operation to find that person and place him through Judgement.

[Daerog]

Eh, just want to point out that the three he is with when we first meet him are not GW recruits.

 

He tells them to go home after dealing with the bandits, he just "conscripted" them so he can help them stand up for themselves against the bandits that robbed their families.

 

He did go around recruiting for the Wardens, though, we are told this. How often and how many recruits are unknown, we never actually see him recruiting Wardens, he just says so. I'm guessing he more or less just advertised for the Wardens, but it seems he was also content with just showing people how to stand up for themselves, then letting them be on their way.

 

Still, he did recruit, but not the three we first see him with.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Interesting debate yes.

 

Off-topic: this discussion reminds me that they have yet to explain the fate of the Noble who paid Blackwall to perform this event.

 

From what I understand this Noble got away scott free from his involvement due to his own connections. 

 

Blackwall may have been the tool but the one who planned the entire event still living the good life complete free from any risk over being the mastermind from what Blackwall told me when I asked about his past after he returned to the Inquisition.

 

It would have been interesting if Blackwall provide us a Operation to find that person and place him through Judgement.

I believe the person who hired Rainier committed suicide after what happened. Or he "committed suicide". 

[Kinsz]

Everyone who thinks he's been on the path of redemption since assuming blackwalls name, keep in mind, for all the good he said he wanted to do, he never drank the dark spawn blood to become a Warden. That to me is the nail in the coffin when it comes to redemption and repentance vs self serving hiding and lying.

Lol because he knew what the ritual entails right? nobody outside of wardens know what the ritual ......and people about to be wardens so Blackwall most likely doesnt even know how the joining works.

[OHB MajorV]

Interesting debate yes.

Off-topic: this discussion reminds me that they have yet to explain the fate of the Noble who paid Blackwall to perform this event.

From what I understand this Noble got away scott free from his involvement due to his own connections.

Blackwall may have been the tool but the one who planned the entire event still living the good life complete free from any risk over being the mastermind from what Blackwall told me when I asked about his past after he returned to the Inquisition.

It would have been interesting if Blackwall provide us a Operation to find that person and place him through Judgement.

Agree. He should pay also. You think between Josie and Lleana (sp)? They could filter the bs and find the root cause. I would love to sit in my dragons mouth and have a few words with him/her.

[OHB MajorV]

Lol because he knew what the ritual entails right? nobody outside of wardens know what the ritual ......and people about to be wardens so Blackwall most likely doesnt even know how the joining works.

Because you come here with solid proof that he doesn't know, I will kneel to your obviously superior knowledge pertaining to the inner workings of blackwalls previous life ( please read this in the most sarcastic voice you know)

[Jukaga]

And what about those he murdered?  Don't they deserve justice?  I will let him swing, for some crimes it doesn't matter how much time has past or how much guilt they feel IMO.

Meh, if it makes you feel any better tell yourself they got stepped on by the Archdemon.

[Kinsz]

Because you come here with solid proof that he doesn't know, I will kneel to your obviously superior knowledge pertaining to the inner workings of blackwalls previous life ( please read this in the most sarcastic voice you know)

 

We are both speculating......BUT my theory is much more likely to be fact than yours:-)

 

Did Blackwall go through the joining ? he didnt.......Fact

 

Does anyone know what the joining is outside of the wardens ?  no.......Fact.

[Myusha123]

Agree. He should pay also. You think between Josie and Lleana (sp)? They could filter the bs and find the root cause. I would love to sit in my dragons mouth and have a few words with him/her.

That mastermind poisoned himself. 

[Ashagar]

Or at least the intermediary 'poisoned' himself doesn't mean the person who was really behind is dead this is especially given what country we are talking about.