44 réponses à ce sujet

[Flaming-Soul]

The current system makes no sense for using tactical camera if there is no tactics to be employed. I loved the deep tactics options of Origins, and it was so so satisfying to just attack and see your work flourish in the combat without having to move other players or sometimes even yourself. Really hope they bring this back on a future patch, this game is begging for it thanks to a lot more open combat environments with various elevation levels.

 

Sidenote: Anyone know how turn the camera without having to keep holding the right mouse button? Sort of like how third person games usually works: Using the mouse as camera from the player's perspective.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Sorry, i dont think i may be understanding. when you say you agree with the tactical combat what is that exactly? I am pissed with the controls and the missing "if then" commands that existed on the other DA's.

 

The controls are pretty cumbersome, true. But that isn't really because the way the combat is designed in this game isn't tactical, but simply because the controls are poorly designed. My point being that one wouldn't have to change the way combat works to get good tactical combat*, one would merely have to improve the specific implementation of the control scheme. Tac cam pretty much offers all the features I would want on a basic level, but the way these features are implemented is poor.

 

The "if-then" commands are a different topic altogether as far as I am concerned. And unlike the somewhat poor implementation of the tac cam, I can't see how their absence has anything to do with consoles. As I already argued, they are actually more necessary for consoles, since on pc one can in principle efficiently control the entire party.

 

*with a few very notable exceptions, such as the implementation of ff, which due to the hp asymmetry is pretty much useless in its current state.

[quebra]

The gameplay is subpar. It doesn't get any better. That along with the silly fetch quests and lack of meaingful C&C are the worst parts of the game that drags it down. Chracters and exploration is what makes DA3 playable.

The tactics system from DAO was destroyed... we can only hope for a patch.  Looks like they went more action oriented, and not well.

 

Want a good action RPG, try DRAGONS DOGMA.

[CronoDragoon]

The AI Tactics options are awful.

 

The tactical nature of the combat is excellent.

[Iakus]

What "tactical tricks" from Origins do you feel are lacking?

For me it's a tactics menu more complex than:

 

Use an ability

Use an ability A LOT!

Don't use an ability

[Ryzaki]

I think I read this wrong.

Are we talking about "Tactics" as in the If-Then system for setting up the AI to handle companions? Rather than "tactics" in a broader sense?

Because I agree that the absence of the If-Then Tactics is a disappointment. But I don't find the game any more tactically (in a broader sense) shallow than DAO

 

Eh ranged companions had enough sense to move out of the way of the melee guys in DAO and DA2.

 

Not so much in DAI.

[Yushis99]

Eh ranged companions had enough sense to move out of the way of the melee guys in DAO and DA2.

 

Not so much in DAI.

exactly and not just that.. also fleeing from aoes and taking advantage of enemy statuses, there were so much more possible, dunno why they didnt use those on this game.

[Yushis99]

The tactics system from DAO was destroyed... we can only hope for a patch.  Looks like they went more action oriented, and not well.

 

Want a good action RPG, try DRAGONS DOGMA.

I find the patch idea more atractive than a DLC actually..

[StopCallingMeHarold]

I really miss managing my team tactics. I loved setting-up CCCs and crowd control. Of course with the all of the open areas in DA:I, there aren't really any crowds to control. "Ooo look! 3 Templars." "Yay! 2 mages." "Is that a giant I see? Can't wait for the team to go attack it's knee. *stretch* *yawn*. "I'll just pick up the iron ore while you guys work it out."

[ironhorse384]

What "tactical tricks" from Origins do you feel are lacking?

self any - activate rock armor

self any - activate elemental weapons

self health <25% health potion

self mana or stamina <10% lyrium potion

enemy staggered - use current condition for next tactic

enemy elite or higher - use crushing prison

self being attacked by melee - mind blast

 

just to name a few since there's quite a few ways in which tactics can be applied depending upon which companions are being utilized.

[Jackal19851111]

What "tactical tricks" from Origins do you feel are lacking?

 

THIS:

 

http://forum.bioware.../#entry17979469

[Volourn]

"Nobody forces you to do "silly fetch quests."

 

Nobody forces you to repsond to my posts either.

 

\Whetehr I do the quests or not doesn't mean they aren't stupid and hurt the game.

[Corto81]

The tactical combat is fine, in many ways it's better than in Origins. 

 

What tactical combat?

 

I've played through Nightmare by not clicking a potion and face-tanking and holding my attack button (mid to late game, mind you).

 

The entire tactics boils down to keeping guard up on your tank, barrier on your KE, and moving the ridiculously stupid AI companions out of fire pools etc.

 

I'm dead serious. This is how it is on NM.

 

...

 

And if I were to pick a non-cheese party, the effort simply isn't worth the reward - not on harder difficulties, not with a useless tactical camera, not with having to issue new commands in action view and pause every 2.3 seconds.

Also, there's much less variety to combat with only 8 skills available...

Not to mention the ridiculous design where I can't even access my inventory once combat starts. My mage is stuck with a Fire staff against a fire dragon (and I had no idea that was gonna be a fire dragon, for example - obviously, talking about the non-KE mages).

[Zenthar Aseth]

"Nobody forces you to do "silly fetch quests."

 

Nobody forces you to repsond to my posts either.

 

\Whetehr I do the quests or not doesn't mean they aren't stupid and hurt the game.

Uh... technically, nobody forces you to respond to my replies to your posts either. What's your point?

 

If you're intentionally doing "silly fetch quests", then why on Earth are you complaining about it? "Oh no, not this stupid druffalo quest!! I DONT WANT TO DO IT BUT I MUST!! ITS SO SILLY!!!"

 

Because, you see, them being silly is your opinion, not a fact. Some people do not think they are silly. Which is why, if you think they are silly, don't do them. If you like to do them, do them. Complicated, innit?

[Matth85]

If you're intentionally doing "silly fetch quests", then why on Earth are you complaining about it? "Oh no, not this stupid druffalo quest!! I DONT WANT TO DO IT BUT I MUST!! ITS SO SILLY!!!"

 

Well.. to be fair... some of us completionist do got a small OCD when it comes to quests on the map! I, for one, can't leave a map without knowing I have done 100% of what I can do. And can i tell you: That Druffalo quest was not fun at level 6! They should've given me a warning before strolling into Despair demons and Lesser Terrors! Thank got the Druffalo is a master tank.

 

And to the OP: They got a mix between Action-oriented (aka: DA2) and tactical (Aka: DA:O). What we got is this hybrid mess. Especially considering the party AI is less than optimal. My biggest issue is the limits of:

Disable

Enable

Preffered

I want a list of priority. I want my Solas to prioritize Winter's grasp over Energy Barrage, but at the same time I want energy barrage over immolate. I can't do that now. I can preffer Winter's grasp, at which it will use it more than I want(Above Barrier, for instance), or I can put it to enable: At which he will use energy barrage or immolate as much as winter's grasp. That isn't helping!

 

It also isn't helping I can't set up combos. If I use 2 mages on AI, they both winter's grasp the same target. Either that, or Varric uses explosive shot instead of long shot. The AI can't capitalize on my setups, I can just try and capitalize on their happy accidents. It works -- but it's limiting.

[Sevitan7]

They got a mix between Action-oriented (aka: DA2)

 

 

DA2 wasn't really action-oriented, it was just as tactical as Origins, more so in many ways. It contained a few minor action elements, but they hardly had an impact. Inquisition is the one that stands out, for better or worse, compared to the first two games.

[Flaming-Soul]

DA2 wasn't really action-oriented, it was just as tactical as Origins, more so in many ways. It contained a few minor action elements, but they hardly had an impact. Inquisition is the one that stands out, for better or worse, compared to the first two games.

 

Yes, DA 2 was as tactical as Origins, just faster paced.

[Matth85]

DA2 wasn't really action-oriented, it was just as tactical as Origins, more so in many ways. It contained a few minor action elements, but they hardly had an impact. Inquisition is the one that stands out, for better or worse, compared to the first two games.

Not really. It had the tactical options of DA:O, but it wasn't tactical. The game built on fast paced real-time action fighting above tactical play, such as DA:O was made. DA:2 tried to get closer to ME, which had an impact on the gaming industry. While it worked, DA:2 didn't achieve anything with its combat.

Now we got a hybrid abomination of the 2 playstyle. It doesn't really work. It could work if we had a competent AI worthy of a late 2014 game -- but we didn't. Or rather, they didn't want to include good AI to the party. 

 

I find it amusing to let the AI play a DW rogue, then watch an assassin enemy. Why can't my teammates be like that? /sigh

[Sevitan7]

 

Not really. It had the tactical options of DA:O, but it wasn't tactical. The game built on fast paced real-time action fighting above tactical play, such as DA:O was made. DA:2 tried to get closer to ME, which had an impact on the gaming industry. While it worked, DA:2 didn't achieve anything with its combat.

Now we got a hybrid abomination of the 2 playstyle. It doesn't really work. It could work if we had a competent AI worthy of a late 2014 game -- but we didn't. Or rather, they didn't want to include good AI to the party. 

 

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with the intent. The game was obviously designed to feel and look like an action rpg with elements like the stagger system or faster animations used to accomplish that. It's also very likely that Bioware wanted to emulate Mass Effect in order to leech off its success and sales. But the mechanics weren't significantly different from Origins, even if the math was. There were no actual action elements implemented in 2, despite what the marketing (and Laidlaw) attempted to tell us. And while this is an opinion, the encounter design (despite the wave combat) and game balance combined in such a way that on Nightmare, DA2 required far more tactical gameplay on the player's part than the other two games.

 

To be fair, I don't think they had time to make an action rpg out of DA2. They development was too short to do anything other than remodel the combat system form Origins and pretend it's a makeshift ARPG that they so clearly wanted. They did have time with Inquisition, and did a terrible job of it. I doubt it's going to get any better in the future. Which is a shame, because Inquisition probably could be salvaged into a fun game that does require tactics outside from the first act. When it comes to designing combat that requires tactical thought, Bioware often misses the mark but they do get lucky now and then. Their games, like many RPG's really, suffer from a combat system that simply scales poorly as the game goes on. This is extra depressing because you can see and "feel" how the combat works in the early game and what the intent was before it falls apart. Inquisition is actually really fun early on, Hinterlands is the best part of the game. One of the major selling points of RPGs is seeing your character progress through choices within the system. When the system is so broken you have to go out of your way to create challenge in the game by limiting yourself then some major mistakes were made in the design process.

 

I doubt we'll ever get mod tools, but if we do this is probably fixable.

[heime2003]

Coming back from Origins, I thought the deeper more elaborate tactics will open up as I progress few more hours into the game, but I am 8 hours in and still it is the same. There is hardly anything you can do with the tactics compared to Origin, which had a very elaborate system. Am I missing something here?

 

Thanks

yes..there is no tactic in this game

all comes down to who got more hp and more special attacks in his sleeves

i got disappointed by DA:I being weakest among DA games in terms of combat

i play the game for open world feel though