90 réponses à ce sujet

[Slapstick83]

As much as I love the game (despite it's minor flaws), there's one thing that really breaks the immersion for me this time around, that didn't happen in the previous games. I'm leading, not only a deadly elite combat force, but a multi-national powerfaction with far reaching diplomatic ties, armies, serfs, villages and military alliances. Yet I can't for the life of me buy a lump of iron or scrape together a few coins for a new sword.

 

This is incredibly jarring to me in this setting. It made perfect sense in the other games (presumably; didn't play the 2nd game due to poor reviews) because you were this lonesome ranger fighting the impossible odds to save a world that hardly knew you existed. Not so much this time around. If I want my smith in my castle (just take a moment to reflect over the implications of that sentence in a medieval setting) I have to go to a cave in some backwater hill and find it myself like a damned miner. If I need a few coins to buy a new helmet, I have to go scavenge some old bows of a corpse like a lowly commoner. This is beneath me. I shouldn't have "gold coins". I should have wealth.

 

I really wish they had taken a completely new approach to all of this in this game, and it would have been sooo refreshing. Here's my immediate ideas.

• Claiming quarries and stuff like that is good but underutilized. Claimed an Obsidian Quarry? You now have access to obsidian for smithing!  Indefinitely. Then add claiming various hunting cabins for leathers and claiming villages for cloth.
• Scrap the whole "find lots of useless junk to sell so you can afford 'x'". The whole concept is so out of place in this game it's abhorrent and just remnants of outdated rpg philosophy. Scrap it, and scrap gold entirely. You should still keep epic loot drops and rare crafting ingredients (finding stuff is fun!). Just get rid of the stupid trash items and useless gold.
  • Buying items from vendors really have no place in this particular setting where I'm leading a military and political faction under divine right. If there's one thing the medieval aristocracy did really well, it was wealth disparity. I can understand that magical items would be incredibly expensive, but compared to owning land and armies it is still nothing. I wouldn't be able to sell a sword and buy a castle with an army and surrounding lands, or everyone would be doing it. Items from vendors should be unlocked, not bought. Potentially it could be "get enough favors/influence/faction points" or whatever and the spend those to buy items.
• When I claim areas, villages, mines, armies, perform missions on my wartable and increase my influence, I should also increase my wealth. Wealth levels (or even just influence if you don't want to add another mechanic) should attract notable master armorsmiths and weaponsmiths from all over Ferelden and Orlais.
  • They would be able to craft excellent gear for me based on the resources available to my faction (after me having claimed areas under divine right). Better smiths -> higher level schematics. Gaining a high enough standing with certain factions would unlock specific schematics. Hidden/Hard side-quests would unlock tier 3/masterwork schematics. (P.S. Where the smiths come from would also determine how the armor looks)

This would have made a lot more sense to me, felt a lot better, solved the problem of wonky "you can only carry 60 swords in you inventory" stupidity, and generally been more awesome. In my opinion.    (P.S. I know they won't change the game. I just want to air my thoughts on the subject). What do you think? Agree/disagree? Complementary ideas?

[Eternal Phoenix]

I agree with your points OP.

 

(I'd like your post too but I've run out of "likes" for today)

[dragondreamer]

Most of your wealth is going towards maintaining your castle, your army, your networks, etc.  But well before the end of the game, I had more money than I knew what to do with.  Lots of nice equipment comes from out in the field, and there's more than enough to drop on a couple expensive items.  It also helps to pick up the vendor perks on the war table.

[Slapstick83]

Most of your wealth is going towards maintaining your castle, your army, your networks, etc.  But well before the end of the game, I had more money than I knew what to do with.  Lots of nice equipment comes from out in the field, and there's more than enough to drop on a couple expensive items.  It also helps to pick up the vendor perks on the war table.

 

Yes well, I'm simply comparing the costs of all the things you mentioned to buying a new coat. The coat should be a negible cost that simply didn't exist. I'm also not complaining about lack of money or stuff to buy. That all works fine. The mechanic is just entirely out of place when I'm close to being a military pope under divine right.

[hwlrmnky]

I confess to having had similar thoughts. They just weren't as complete or well-articulated as yours.

[Ennai and 54 others]

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

Oh come on, buying and selling thrash is one of the staples of RPGs, the game just wouldnt be the same without it

[Hazegurl]

I 100% agree with you OP. Running around and picking herbs and mining materials like some medieval pauper should have stopped the moment I reached skyhold.  Sure you can do war table missions for cloth, leather, herbs, et al but you get only 3-6 freaking nodes from it. Why on earth are there so many quarries and logging stands in this game if claiming them all means just 3 upgrades for skyhold and that's it?

[lLord Bhaal]

-30 court approval.

"People who announce themselves as not peasant, are, by definition, peasants."

-Orlesian Nobles' Guide to Peasantry by Vivienne.

[nightscrawl]

Yet I can't for the life of me buy a lump of iron or scrape together a few coins for a new sword.

I had no problems earning gold in my first play. On the other hand, I am one of those that loots everything, and rarely buys things beyond what I absolutely need.

 

Scrap it, and scrap gold entirely.

But... how will I afford the 10,000g uber prestigious item from that wacky Orlesian merchant without gold?! Go talk to him if you want a lesson about wealth. -- Keep in mind that this is the NO SPOILERS forum, which would include the surprise of that item, whatever it is.


While I do agree with your general idea about wealth and the Inquisition, I don't really feel that saving gold (as a player) is a remnant of "outdated rpg philosophy," but rather one of the components, and a staple, of it.

[Vast_Girth]

Whilst i definitely agree with your ideas on resource gathering, i still think the concept of gold should be kept.    You should have to choose between spending a load of your gold upgrading your castle or spunking a big chunk of it away buying a magic sword.

[Fidite Nemini]

I agree.

 

What you suggest isn't perfect so it'd need some work to flesh out as a proper mechanic, but it's a lot more sensible given the scope with which you operate in this game.

[Blackstork]

Well, i am not sure if anyone familiar with Path of Exile, but this is very sucessful game which devs attempted something revolutionary and been praised for it, and it was one of reasons to like the game - they got rid of gold completely. In exchange they made barter free trade system where different stones and orbs been traded in different rates, so in order to buy some Unicque weapon you for example will need 3 rare chaos orbs , while simple weapons traded just for scrolls of identification, etc.... In order to maintain trade as big faction you still can keep the shopping element for rare weapons, using rare magic orbs, while regular weapons could be found or just crafted.

PoE have best rpg trading system, imo, and DA:I could learn from that.

[Wulfram]

You can rationalise some of it as having a separate personal budget to go along with the Inquisition's general budget. Which is good practice.

But, yeah, I agree with you, though I don't think I'm quite as bothered by it as you are.

[tmp7704]

Once you get to Skyhold you can get your advisors organize resource gathering operations you don't need to be part of. Gathering money can be done in this manner even earlier, it's available in Haven.

Various schematics and resources can also be obtained spending the influence perk points, you don't need to buy them with money or look for them in world.

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

_{There are exploits for Unlimited Crafting Materials and Infinite Money. They do go hand in hand.}

[Chari]

I'm even more annoyed that my troops can't get these damned resources for me. War Table missions give pathetic 3-6 elfroots etc

Like, for Andraste sake what's the point of having agents if they can't even pick up a couple of flowers? It's not like they are actually doing anything - just go to Hinterlands and they stay there and... walk around for the most part

[DemGeth]

Well not to nitpick.

But you're not a noble or king. You're the leader of a cult movement being supported by nobles that provide the infrastructure. You don't own land. You aren't collecting taxes or selling crops.

So the nobles are wealthy you're poor

[Han Shot First]

I think the OP has a good idea.

 

Instead of needing to personally gather say 10 Silverite to craft some weapon or other, maybe crafting from Silverite should have become an option after claiming a Silverite mine similar to the quarries or logging stands. Or by gaining access to mines (or trade) through the War Table. Maybe resources should have unlocked and remained available once unlocked.

 

But you're not a noble or king. You're the leader of a cult movement being supported by nobles that provide the infrastructure. You don't own land. You aren't collecting taxes or selling crops.

 

So the nobles are wealthy you're poor

 

That isn't true actually. You are also in command of a fiefdom and there are references throughout the game to the Inquisition being wealthy after you built it up into a big deal. Also there is a war table mission where you can expand your territory and an Orlesian fiefdom that was up for grabs for the Inquisition. Its one of the chain quests and it unlocks if you have the Inquisitor ask the Dowager for a dance at the ball.

[Dreamer]

I like where your mind is at, OP. These sorts of thematic gameplay changes are genius for inspiring immersion in games.

[Monster A-Go Go]

Also keep in mind that the Inquisition is not just you and your three buddies.  You're fielding an army, housing refugees, outfitting a spy network, funding a diplomatic corp, renovating an entire castle, and securing the talents of experts and nonpareils. 

 

The way I look at it, you're not sending Cullen out to find ore just to hammer into a single sword, or having Josephine polish boots for a single purse of coins.  These missions are funding your operation as a whole and the cost of war is deducted before you see the results.  What you're receiving are the spoils of war...the monies and materials that can be salvaged from the expense of maintaining an entire Inquisition. 

[Al Foley]

I would agree but keep in mind the Inquisition is too just growing in power as well.  It does not have copious amounts of resources at the beginning of the game to pull off everything it may want to do.  Hence everyone has to pull their own weight, and since the Inquisitor is the main representative of the Inquisitor it probably makes some sense for him to have the purse and go otu and buy things.  Towards the end of the game this would be more practicable, I think.  

[ashwind]

Yeah, it sucks to be the Inquisitor. if I had a choice, I would be Kim Jong-Un! All your money, mind and body belong belong to me!! ~Diabolic Laughter~

[Slapstick83]

Hah! Cool, people have opinions

 

I've been giving a little thought to how my advisors and companions would react to some of these activities, and it's become quite hilarious. I can just imagine Cassandras glare of disbelief and almost violent frustration when I stop and go "Hey! Wait a sec. Is that IRON?! Omg where is my pickaxe", Blackwall rubbing his temples and sighing heavily when he sees me scamper over a hill trying to kill a goat, or Cullens exhausted attempts to tell me that his forces should not be made into make-shift miners because I want a new shield. I can literally hear them wispering "Of all the persons Andraste could have sent, it had to be the crazy one" behind my back. I feel like I have to rename my character Derpette now 

 

Honestly, it's not that what they made is "wrong" per se. I just find it out of touch with the theme. And I also don't see the added value of me personally hunting goats instead of having access to leather due to some action or choice I made. Or scavenging 40 rubbish weapons to save up for new pants. The crafting system is fine. I just don't feel the way I get materials is believable, but rather very contrived and it's breaking the spell of who I am and what I'm doing.

 

They could've done something different, that would've been cooler, and it would've fit the theme better, and been a little innovative in the process. At least that's my take on it.