90 réponses à ce sujet

[Bear43]

I like your thoughts on this. I am just 5 hours after getting SkyHold and I have to say that I agree with what you said that there was a very large missed opportunity on how to handle claiming areas and such. You are dead on in that the way it is really does not fit with the theme of the game. My Inquisitor is supposed to be powerful enough to cause the Chantry concern? Then why do I have to do the mining and herb collecting personally? It becomes a major thematic issue once you gain SkyHold. I can understand doing that while at Haven, simply because you are just starting out, but once you start claiming areas for the Inquisition and building power and influence there would be no need for my character to do those mundane activities anymore. Hopefully some day we will see a game provide such a theme in a similar situation. I think it is a good idea.

[tmp7704]

Sigh, sending your army out to mine ore an they come back with........6 pieces, send your spy network out for some leather, same result, send them for money an your lucky to make 150g, joke tbh

It's not like you need tons of resources to make stuff, though. It's what, 12-20 per piece tops, and you upgrade things once every few hours if that?

This stuff runs in the background while you do other things and it adds up surprisingly fast.

[wrdnshprd]

It's not like you need tons of resources to make stuff, though. It's what, 12-20 per piece tops, and you upgrade things once every few hours if that?

This stuff runs in the background while you do other things and it adds up surprisingly fast.

 

maybe at tier 1 this is true.. but once you get to tier 3.. you need a masterwork material, around 14-20 of the main ore.. then you need to add three SEPARATE stacks of 4-8 secondary materials.. so its a little more than 12-20 pieces.

 

i actually enjoy the system as is.. but you do need quite a bit of materials to craft items.

[wrdnshprd]

what i dont like is that i have to walk around skyhold in my PJs all the time lol..

[Zu Long]

I think that maybe the best way to represent gold at least might be to have an hourly stipend the inquisitor receives which is based on the Inquisition's Influence level. There's a similar system in saint's row 4, and I thought it represented well the feeling of being the leader of a growing empire.

[Shaftell]

You make very good points. However, Bioware stuck to a very successful formula. We're not sure if people are ready for that kind of change.

[Elodran]

Agreed. It wouldn't be so bad if the missions you ran didn't return so few of the items. Also would be great if you could have tomes to mark down where you got your materials from. I need to go farm some T3 mats, and it's somewhat annoying to have to look that stuff up out-of-game.

[Bane]

 

[...]

 

They could've done something different, that would've been cooler, and it would've fit the theme better, and been a little innovative in the process. At least that's my take on it. 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

It didn't really hit me until I became The Inquisitor. I was at the smithy taking note of what materials I needed for future upgrades and trying to think of the best place to get them when - BAM! - this thought slapped me across the face:

 

Don't I have people for this?

 

Money and resource management at a personal level just doesn't fit this game at all. Money and resource management at the Inquisition level would have been more appropriate.

[whiteravenxi]

My Herald is a Dalish Elf who enjoys picking herbs and ore as a relaxing pass time after ordering troops to build bridges, assaulting well-defended keeps, ensuring water supplies are met for the Inquisition in the desert, slaying all-powerful dragons, judging traitors in the throne room, putting Red Templar to task, sealing underground tunnels infested with Darkspawn, and ensuring Skyhold is built to her specification. Oh right, the OP said something about feeling like a peasant? ...

 

She's also a bit OCD and doesn't think anyone can pick herbs quite the way she does. IS THAT SO WRONG? 

 

She also really likes to wear pajamas in Skyhold...

[Slapstick83]

My Herald is a Dalish Elf who enjoys picking herbs and ore as a relaxing pass time after ordering troops to build bridges, assaulting well-defended keeps, ensuring water supplies are met for the Inquisition in the desert, slaying all-powerful dragons, judging traitors in the throne room, putting Red Templar to task, sealing underground tunnels infested with Darkspawn, and ensuring Skyhold is built to her specification. Oh right, the OP said something about feeling like a peasant? ...

 

She's also a bit OCD and doesn't think anyone can pick herbs quite the way she does. IS THAT SO WRONG? 

 

She also really likes to wear pajamas in Skyhold...

 

Haha, valid points. Except the pajamas. There's just no excuse for such undignified behavior.

On point though, after that list of actions you just described, doesn't mining ore feel even slightly out of character? If not, you obviously know the answer to "what would your character be doing if she wasn't saving the world?". Apparently horticulture and cave spelunking in comfy tights.

[Jukaga]

OP's post was the best suggestion I've ever read on this forum. His more abstracted resource system and wealth system make so much more sense, would be so much more fun that it's not even a question.

[hellbiter88]

As much as I love the game (despite it's minor flaws), there's one thing that really breaks the immersion for me this time around, that didn't happen in the previous games. I'm leading, not only a deadly elite combat force, but a multi-national powerfaction with far reaching diplomatic ties, armies, serfs, villages and military alliances. Yet I can't for the life of me buy a lump of iron or scrape together a few coins for a new sword.

 

This is incredibly jarring to me in this setting. It made perfect sense in the other games (presumably; didn't play the 2nd game due to poor reviews) because you were this lonesome ranger fighting the impossible odds to save a world that hardly knew you existed. Not so much this time around. If I want my smith in my castle (just take a moment to reflect over the implications of that sentence in a medieval setting) I have to go to a cave in some backwater hill and find it myself like a damned miner. If I need a few coins to buy a new helmet, I have to go scavenge some old bows of a corpse like a lowly commoner. This is beneath me. I shouldn't have "gold coins". I should have wealth.

 

I really wish they had taken a completely new approach to all of this in this game, and it would have been sooo refreshing. Here's my immediate ideas.

• Claiming quarries and stuff like that is good but underutilized. Claimed an Obsidian Quarry? You now have access to obsidian for smithing!  Indefinitely. Then add claiming various hunting cabins for leathers and claiming villages for cloth.
• Scrap the whole "find lots of useless junk to sell so you can afford 'x'". The whole concept is so out of place in this game it's abhorrent and just remnants of outdated rpg philosophy. Scrap it, and scrap gold entirely. You should still keep epic loot drops and rare crafting ingredients (finding stuff is fun!). Just get rid of the stupid trash items and useless gold.
  • Buying items from vendors really have no place in this particular setting where I'm leading a military and political faction under divine right. If there's one thing the medieval aristocracy did really well, it was wealth disparity. I can understand that magical items would be incredibly expensive, but compared to owning land and armies it is still nothing. I wouldn't be able to sell a sword and buy a castle with an army and surrounding lands, or everyone would be doing it. Items from vendors should be unlocked, not bought. Potentially it could be "get enough favors/influence/faction points" or whatever and the spend those to buy items.
• When I claim areas, villages, mines, armies, perform missions on my wartable and increase my influence, I should also increase my wealth. Wealth levels (or even just influence if you don't want to add another mechanic) should attract notable master armorsmiths and weaponsmiths from all over Ferelden and Orlais.
  • They would be able to craft excellent gear for me based on the resources available to my faction (after me having claimed areas under divine right). Better smiths -> higher level schematics. Gaining a high enough standing with certain factions would unlock specific schematics. Hidden/Hard side-quests would unlock tier 3/masterwork schematics. (P.S. Where the smiths come from would also determine how the armor looks)

This would have made a lot more sense to me, felt a lot better, solved the problem of wonky "you can only carry 60 swords in you inventory" stupidity, and generally been more awesome. In my opinion.    (P.S. I know they won't change the game. I just want to air my thoughts on the subject). What do you think? Agree/disagree? Complementary ideas?

 

You know some of this would need to be tweaked and polished to make it practical to a single-player discovery game... but I like the ideas nonetheless. Good constructive criticism here.

[Ketten]

I agree with everything in the OP. Doesn't really feel like I'm so high and mighty and grand when I'm digging in the muck and scooping intestines out of beasts to convince someone to join me. ;P Wealth should have really been a factor in this game.

[Ballistic714]

I clicked on this post because I thought it was ridiculous that I still have to go collect my own iron ore and elfroot. Sure, you can send your advisors to organize that, but you only get 6 or so. That seems quite low.

 

However, you bring up several more points that I hadn't even considered really. I don't mind there being inventory space in the game, but I agree that if we find an Obsidian quarry, we should get near infinite Obsidian to craft weapons with. Nice post OP.

[Aurok]

Yep, they should have committed fully to the idea. You could say that about a lot of the game.

[Obadiah]

OP, me thinks thou dost protest too much.

[tmp7704]

maybe at tier 1 this is true.. but once you get to tier 3.. you need a masterwork material, around 14-20 of the main ore.. then you need to add three SEPARATE stacks of 4-8 secondary materials.. so its a little more than 12-20 pieces.
 
i actually enjoy the system as is.. but you do need quite a bit of materials to craft items.

Yes, I meant the main stack since the secondary ones use way lower counts.

It just doesn't feel like a big deal to me since I'm sitting on stacks of 30-50+ of most materials and that's merely from the operations and hitting A when there's ore chunk or a herb in under 5 steps from where I happen to be as I move to whatever destination I have on mind atm. And that's mid game; these stacks are only going to build up.

Thematically this is a minor issue and one of many, if one was willing to start nit-picking. Most of the tasks (from assaulting keeps, through dealing with people, to like, literally 90% of everything else) would be really something you'd delegate. With rift closing being pretty much the only exception because that's the one thing no one else can do. But that wouldn't make for a very interesting game, would it...

[Lady Mutare]

If you are the Herald of Andraste as a Qunari the Orlesians refer to you as an Ox....Why would you even help them?

[Zorlagius]

Pretty similar to my thoughts. This game would have been better as a combo of actual light strategy management game mated to that strong RPG content BW is pretty good at making, instead of the collect and craft that takes a major chunk of the game time even if you do your best to keep it at minimum. Not only is it a waste of time and a missed opportunity, but also a serious immersion breaker.

[Das Tentakel]

The basic problem, narratively, is that you supposedly increase in power and importance, but the gameplay doesn't scale with it.

 

By that I mean this: In the beginning (intro / tutorial section) you're basically a nobody with a mark who is conscripted for a suicide mission in order to close the rift. Makes sense the game involves a small party, as well as some backup from the few available crack troops. This is actually what happens in that section of the game; there's a bunch of troops who arrive led by Leliana and they support you in the fight at the rift.

 

After that, you're the most valuable person in Thedas, because you're the dude/dudette with the mark that can close rifts. You're also becoming a figure of religious awe. 

Galloping across Thedas gathering herbs and occasionally closing a rift, only accompanied by a couple of heroes just doesn't make sense. It's as if Eisenhower, Montgomery, Patton and a bunch of Allied nuclear scientists are off hunting Nazi infiltrators in the Andes during World War II all on their own. Instead of, well, commanding armies and making a nuclear bomb.

 

The only 'level' of play that would make sense at this point is closing rifts while being accompanied by a couple of 'heroes' and a whole troop of elite troops. A company-level tactical game, with a bit of local-level diplomacy thrown in. Once you're in Skyhold and have become the official leader of the Inquisition, it's all strategy and diplomacy, with the occasional well-protected personal campaign to close rifts in a region.

 

It basically means that your personal journey as Inquisitor is best served by three levels of 'conflict' gameplay - initially squad-based tactical, then company-based tactical until Skyhold, and strategic / diplomatic / company-based tactical after that. With the exception of the first, none of those are things that BioWare has ever done, nor will ever do (probably). The war table and its missions are a crutch of sorts to create the illusion of the strategic / diplomatic level, but this is basically just 'phoney gameplay'.

 

Single-character and party-based RPG's just work best in terms of overall narrative when you're somebody who has to work alone or with just a few companions because of the overall context. Strider can lead a small party to Rohan and beyond; King Elessar has to operate on an entirely different level.

 

Ideally, given the fact that it's probably hard to combine these different levels in a single game, you'd like three different, successive games to handle each stage in a character's rise to power. 

[whiteravenxi]

Ideally, given the fact that it's probably hard to combine these different levels in a single game, you'd like three different, successive games to handle each stage in a character's rise to power.

In all seriousness, this is accurate, however if we're going for 'realism' within the context of the events of the story versus the actual gameplay loop, Dragon Age Inquisition would be most accurate if you never left the war room to do anything. You're the Inquisitor, your job is to move the forces on the map and order operations and respond to threats. Which would be... like the most boring 80 hours ever lol.

I feel like there needs to be some suspension of disbelief when it comes to gameplay loops within the context of a game's constructed narrative. I prefer to roleplay any BioWare game in that there are bigger events going on but my PC isn't afraid to get his / her hands dirty. The Inquisition in this case is in all the zones and I'm helping establish its presence.

Followers are recruited to my cause by me because I am the chief instrument of this machine. I'm inspiring and solving the problems of the people. Also, I'm out in these places because of the Rifts and I AM the only soul in Thedas that can close them.

I might as help out with other things along the way while building the war machine.

[giveamanafish...]

Didn't people find it just as strange in DA2, when you were trying to rescue your mother but also had the opportunity to loot a few chests, to wander round a room or two searching for loot. The City elf origin in DAO had the same type of  thing, your friends have been kidnapped likely being raped,  one I think is eventually muridered. You know where they're being held, but "llook there's a sideroom, probably has some loot, let's go there first."  When Anita Sarkessian made the comment that the DAO scene trivialized rape, I had to agree at least within the gameplay context. Same with parental death, I cringe when Hawke cries "mother" in the DA2 rescue mission.

 

I can't think of a game, maybe the Civ series, where the PC as junk-collector isn't a part of gameplay. heck, it's cheap filler, and people would probably complain if it wasnt there.

 

Edit:: As a side note, you don't smith obsidian, you nap it. Constructing a tool out of obisdian which is just volcanic glass, is counterintuitive and somewhat dangerous for the stupid or uncoordinated. You have to strike the material, with a bone or stone awl or  hammer, in the same direction as the edge you're trying to create. The only physical anthropology course I took, our instructor showed the class how to do this. Guess who's prepared come armagedon armagedion? end of the world as we know it.

[Nyreen]

I heartily agree with the OP's statement!

[AEve1]

DA2 was on its way to doing this, and I think that was one of the things that was really successful in that game. You collect an elfroot area and pay a few silver per item, and voila! Unlimited potions. It would make perfect sense to expand the gathering system to things like quarries and logging stands, maybe charge a few silver per grenade or armor piece (perhaps a charge on higher difficulties? economic handicap to go with the harder battles?), and eliminate the vast majority of the tedium in the game.

 

Only issue would be how that would affect requisitions, since you might acquire power too quickly if you can claim resources without hours of effort. But if the requisitions just asked for different items than the crafting system, that problem would be gone...

[whiteravenxi]

I would also like to point out captured keeps sell some of the areas resources for dirt cheap. I haven't picked up elf root in a long time.