29 réponses à ce sujet

[Crud]

So I was just testing an artificer build, still trying to decide on which specialization I want on my rogue, and I realized the opportunity knocks passive is triggering on my own crits.. I was under the impression only my party members crits would trigger the cool down effect. This makes the passive even better than I'd thought but I'm just double checking here to make sure its working as always/intended before I commit, for fear of it being patched.. Anyone know?

[Matth85]

It shouldn't be patched. Given Artificer is near useless without that passive, and is almost useless if it wouldn't trigger on your own crits. 

It's what makes Artificer comparable to Assassination and Tempest. If they change that, they might as well remove Mark of Death and Flask of Fire. /shrug

[MadDemiurg]

Nerfing mark of death actually sounds like a good idea to me. Also, I wouldn't stretch it to call Opportunity Knocks useless if it didn't trigger on your own crits. You still have 3 other companions you can build for high crit chance, so on average its like -25% efficency if it did work as advertised.

[Matth85]

Nerfing mark of death actually sounds like a good idea to me. Also, I wouldn't stretch it to call Opportunity Knocks useless if it didn't trigger on your own crits. You still have 3 other companions you can build for high crit chance, so on average its like -25% efficency if it did work as advertised.

More like 40% efficiency loss. AIs are idiots, simple as that.

 

But I don't understand the fixation of "nerfing" single player games. Fixing is one thing, nerfing is another. If they want to "fix" the artificer tree, they might as well make the traps useful and actually make the specialization work as intended. 

[Crud]

If the trap skills were more effective I wouldn't be stuck trying to decide between artificer and assassin. I can say with opportunity knocks it is a blast using hook and tackle and then leaping shot and immediately being able to do it again. MoD does not need to be nerfed. Traps do need a buff though.

[Matth85]

There is one trap Artificer should have, but don't.

Think Bianca-like

Mounted.

And it fires by itself.

 

Yes. I want a turret. Make it the end-skill with a CD of, say, 30 seconds. Upgrade gives you the ability to use 2 of them. Make the damage mediocre. Boom, trap-artificer is viable, and we can forget about the CD-reduction. 

 

I love engineers-classes :< Turrets make for tactical play and hilarious playstyles!

[Blackstork]

There is one trap Artificer should have, but don't.

Think Bianca-like

Mounted.

And it fires by itself.

 

Yes. I want a turret. Make it the end-skill with a CD of, say, 30 seconds. Upgrade gives you the ability to use 2 of them. Make the damage mediocre. Boom, trap-artificer is viable, and we can forget about the CD-reduction. 

 

I love engineers-classes :< Turrets make for tactical play and hilarious playstyles!

reminds me of PS2 engeneer class. This idea have nice potential

[Magma_Axis]

There is one trap Artificer should have, but don't.

Think Bianca-like

Mounted.

And it fires by itself.

 

Yes. I want a turret. Make it the end-skill with a CD of, say, 30 seconds. Upgrade gives you the ability to use 2 of them. Make the damage mediocre. Boom, trap-artificer is viable, and we can forget about the CD-reduction. 

 

I love engineers-classes :< Turrets make for tactical play and hilarious playstyles!

Demon Hunter from DIablo 3 then.

 

Given that they steal Whirlwind animation from D3 Barb, dont see why not make Turret from DH available too

[MadDemiurg]

More like 40% efficiency loss. AIs are idiots, simple as that.

 

But I don't understand the fixation of "nerfing" single player games. Fixing is one thing, nerfing is another. If they want to "fix" the artificer tree, they might as well make the traps useful and actually make the specialization work as intended. 

Well, that's why you can control everyone directly, no?

 

I would very much prefer to see useful traps, yes. This would make it actually more interesting then just spamming longshot. Balancing in SP for me is about making it more fun rather than build x being better than build y. Blatantly OP abilities make it less fun for me since they turn complex tactical combat into a faceroll. I agree that you can just ignore them via self restrictions but for me its much less enjoyable since I like to optimise. Thus I tend to enjoy well balanced games much more. I'm sure not everyone works like that.

 

If the trap skills were more effective I wouldn't be stuck trying to decide between artificer and assassin. I can say with opportunity knocks it is a blast using hook and tackle and then leaping shot and immediately being able to do it again. MoD does not need to be nerfed. Traps do need a buff though.

MoD is one of the most blatantly OP damage abilities in the whole franchise. It's 10x times better than assasin's focus. If it shouldn't be nerfed then I'm not really sure what should.

[Matth85]

My problem with the traps of artificer is that they are defensive. You are not suppose to be in melee. 

Spike Trap? melee range. OK damage.

Fallback Plan? You are not suppose to take damage to begin with!

Elemental Mines? Melee range. Very situational.

 

Where is the toys that actually helps?

 

A mine that blows the **** out of stuff if they get close?

Grenades?

Turret-like-stuff?

A trap that, you know, CCs? Slows? Stuns?

Why can't I add elements to my shots? I can tinker, why can't I add some explosions on my arrows?

 

I just feel they missed completely with this tree. It's mediocre for DW rogues, and useless for archers.

[MadDemiurg]

I would like to see the arty as aoe/cc rogue because other 2 specs seem to be lacking in these departments.

 

a grenade with strong aoe damage and some form of hard cc and/or debuffs, beefed up mines and a turret sound like a good skillset.

[Blackstork]

I would like to see the arty as aoe/cc rogue because other 2 specs seem to be lacking in these departments.

 

 

what? No, really?

You just said other rogues are lacking in CC department?

No, mate. You are wrong. They do not, Arty does. Generally Tempest CC potnetial is one of best CCs in the game, hands down.

[MadDemiurg]

what? No, really?

You just said other rogues are lacking in CC department?

No, mate. You are wrong. They do not, Arty does. Generally Tempest CC potnetial is one of best CCs in the game, hands down.

Tempest only CC is flask of frost. While being quite strong it requires you to pull all enemies to your rogue to maximize the effect, which is often not what you want to do. Might be just not my style. Personally I find warriors (with taunt and invincibility) and mages(well, that's as it should be by design) being better at CC.

[Blackstork]

Rogues have best AOE cc in this game. That's my opinion. FoF is the best one. Sleep stuff is easily second because of AOE/additional benefits it provides. Taunt is not cc, it just pull and majority of warrior cc suck, except that Templar thingy which is not ff friendly. Mages cc are one target ones by majority. Rogues have also handful of knockdowns as rift mage and warriors do. I do not say that others have bad cc, simply rogue set of cc at least equal , especially if we take ease of application and usefulness.

[MadDemiurg]

I'd argue that taunt is cc because it makes mobs stand in one place and do nothing useful (whack at your tank). Mage best CCs are static cage, wall of fire and pretty much all of RM stuff (pull, fist, veilstrike) which are all aoe. The only single target ones are winter's grasp and flashfire (both suck). I'd say overall RM is the best CC spec because he can get away with 3-4 aoe CC abilities (low cd as well) without really sacrificing anything. Most of rogue CC is also melee which kinda goes against "ease of use". So I'd say a rogue spec with ranged cc would be something that is currently missing.

[Troubleshooter11]

Artificer specialization without being able to use a crossbow makes me cry. 

[SonsofNorthWind]

If traps were just throwable rather than dropped at your feet I think they would be usable as is.

Rift Mage has amazing AoE CC. If you think of Flask of Lightning as CC, tho, it's pretty comparable, and for a PC Tempest I'd argue that's what it is.

[Blackstork]

Rift Mage Pull is not FF friendly. I know there alot of people playing with FF off, but i cast it only manually in certain cases.

The thing is that is thing is aoe, FF friendly, long lasting and combo-able = best thing.

FoF (Flask of Frost, not Lightning btw) = FF friendly, freezes blob of enemies, taunts them its actually have taunt included, and provide alot of combo opportunities = best CC ability in the game.

Knock Powder and Knock Bomb - Aoe spells, Bomb used as ranged, Powder is cone. Disables alot of types of enemies for long time, enabling Nightmare and Panicked effects  as result, this means spirit damage, panic disable (some lesser mobs run) , and enables free ctiticals to MK rogues for sleep+panic duration. 

Then you have another two abilities which do simple knockdown and are detonators, but the thing 2 rogue classes can actually spam them.  No mage or Warrior can spam their cc ability. Rogues can. Artificer can if party crit enough, Tempest can when under FoF.

This means any potential CC output from rogue is way bigger than any other class.

[SonsofNorthWind]

I get that you're talking about Flask of Frost. I'm saying that, if you're piloting the Tempest, "no one else in the world except me can act" is also best understood as incredibly potent CC.

You are welcome to play with FF on, but I don't think the game is generally played that way, or particularly well balanced for it. Under the games default FF off Rift Mages can spam CC via infinite mana and fire based cool down reduction/elimination on crit.

[Blackstork]

I get that you're talking about Flask of Frost. I'm saying that, if you're piloting the Tempest, "no one else in the world except me can act" is also best understood as incredibly potent CC.

You are welcome to play with FF on, but I don't think the game is generally played that way, or particularly well balanced for it. Under the games default FF off Rift Mages can spam CC via infinite mana and fire based cool down reduction/elimination on crit.

Yes, and some people, like me see just cheese in that. Devs allocated some spells into ff unfriendly not just without reason. Some things become quite cheesy and not so realistic for my tastes. In conditionbs i play rogues have best cc kit hands down. Not only that, they can just really spam it.

[MadDemiurg]

Rift mage can spam anything because he has both very short cooldowns and unlimited mana. Can't comment much on FF since I play without it (imo its broken in this game) but I very rarely stay in the pull myself.All endgame encounters apart from boss ones are pretty much pull -> fire mine -> next.Enemies do not really get the chance to close up and my only melee char is a templar that just spams horn + blessed blades and rarely needs to melee.

[Anelyn77]

Well if you nerf MoD for Assassins then you have to exchange Hail of Arrows or Thousand Cuts for Cloak. That's why Assassins get Cloak as focus because they have MoD to make up in lacking damage. Unlike Tempest you can't spam skills, nor can you lower their CD like Artificer, you do all you can then you have to wait, and MoD is there to provide an extra chunk of damage.

 

Do the quests in Exalted plains without being over level or sporting T3 gear, and tell me which one is better at dealing with all the Arcane Horrors and dozens of undeads from all 3 specs of rogues. Sure as Assassin you can kill the Arcane Horror fast, but then your dps / support for rest of dozens of melee / archers skelies is very slim. Meanwhile both Tempest and Artificer can mop up the whole mob with the elite on top of it just by using their abilities spam

[Crud]

I think if they made spike trap do 500% WD and/or had a larger area of effect, and elemental mines do 75% WD with a 20% chance to freeze for ice and a 20% chance to stun for lightning it would seem more balanced compared to other specializations. Or maybe that would be OP and I'm just fantasizing..

[SpaceV3gan]

I am happy to see that most people here seem to agree that the Artificier needs a buff to its powers. Certainly not a nerf in any way.

[SonsofNorthWind]

Yes, and some people, like me see just cheese in that. Devs allocated some spells into ff unfriendly not just without reason. Some things become quite cheesy and not so realistic for my tastes. In conditionbs i play rogues have best cc kit hands down. Not only that, they can just really spam it.

Which is your right to do. But since mages lose the vast majority of their strength with FF on, youre essentially saying "once mages are gimped via FF, rogue cc> Mage cc and rogues are the only class able to spam cc." Which only holds true under those (non-default) settings, and may make your advice confusing if you don't caveat it each time.