63 réponses à ce sujet

[shama]

First off, the obligatory whinge: why isn't stay/follow a toggle the way it was in DA:O? It was very clear and lead to no confusion. It occasionally led to loneliness as I forgot my party was on 'stay' and I wandered off after a battle only to notice later that they were obediently standing there as told, but never confusion.

 

With the new 'hold position' command I am completely unclear on exactly how it works. It appears to be just a 'quick command', so when I press it the party all are told to stay. But what causes it to reset and for them to go back into follow mode? That isn't clear, to me, and so I think I must be missing something.

 

I'm even more convinced I'm missing something after playing a section last night that I just gave up in frustration after fighting with trying to get everyone to stay in particular places. The game can't be that stupid, it must be me - there is no way that particular puzzle would have passed QA if the mechanism was fundamentally broken. 

So the situation was this (no spoilers, but references to some generic gameplay mechanisms you might not have encountered in DA:I yet):

- a large room that has some torches to be lit, some levers to be pulled and a stone to stand on. One character can't perform all the actions needed before the puzzle resets.

- to get a party member in front of every level/torch I had to select them, click stay, move them into position

- as soon as I switched to a different party member I had to click stay again pretty dam quickly otherwise everyone came running to me

- So while trying to light-torches/pull-levers in order I'd have to change character, click stay, operate lever/torch, change character, click stay, operate level/torch, change character, click stay, operate level/torch and finally change character, click stay, operate level/torch. On a couple of attempts at this process I'd evidently not clicked 'stay' properly, so on switching character I'd find they'd left position and were in the middle of running for a group hug with the previously controlled character

 

After a few attempts at this particular puzzle I gave up, deciding my sanity was not worth the small satisfaction from battling with this control mechanism. I must be doing something wrong, how is this kind of thing supposed to be approached? Is there a definitive toggle stay/follow option? I want my characters to STAY until I tell them otherwise, irrespective of if I switch character and move them around ... the rest of you bozos just STAY!

[GamerGeek87]

Haven't run into the puzzle you describe but I have struggled with the hold position to the point where I've just given up on using it. Its just too inconsistent.

[Ekliane]

Oh god, I feel you. I had to smash Hold everytime I switched characters. I became insane. Was it in the Exalted Plains grove ?

[Yriss]

Oh my goodness... I'm not alone in this!?

 

I nearly gave up on that puzzle because I couldn't get the Hold command to work! (playing on PC).

 

I eventually mashed enough buttons to get people to stay and complete the puzzle, but I have no idea what "did the trick". I do remember that I tried going into Tactical Camera mode in order to issue Hold commands, but even that was difficult to do. I went into Tac-Cam because I remembered some playthrough demos from BioWare staff that was showcasing the Tactical Camera, and I remembered them being able to issue Hold commands in that view. But then again they were playing with a controller...

 

Yeah, I must be dumb or something... couldn't figure this out properly.

 

Edit: I also tried to disable each character's Tactics/Behaviour, but I am not sure that did anything since they still followed from time to time.

[VahnXIII]

I haven't run into this yet and I haven't seen that puzzle. Would turning off the AI on all of the characters help?

[Rynjin]

 

I'm even more convinced I'm missing something after playing a section last night that I just gave up in frustration after fighting with trying to get everyone to stay in particular places. The game can't be that stupid, it must be me - there is no way that particular puzzle would have passed QA if the mechanism was fundamentally broken. 

 

 

This is a game where until yesterday the Main Menu was broken.

 

Just sayin'.

[Fandango]

I know the puzzle you're talking about and can confirm that I suffered similarly.

[Yriss]

I haven't run into this yet and I haven't seen that puzzle. Would turning off the AI on all of the characters help?

 

 

I tried that and didn't notice drastic improvements. In any case, if we had to turn off the AI in order for companions to obey Hold commands, that that seems... backwards? Anyway, I hope we can figure it out in this thread before you run into the puzzle and save you some headaches.

[Spankatola]

It IS frustrating. If you select "hold" and then move your character, your character is no longer holding. Then, when you switch, the character you were just controlling will come to you (not the others, though).

 

For the puzzle you were attempting, it works best to use the tac cam because you can see who's actually going to hold, and then correct any issues. So tac cam, hold (that'll select all), then choose the character you want and go back to regular cam, position him, then tac cam again and hold, THEN switch characters and un pause, repeat. Once you get the trick it flows pretty well, but damn.

[azarhal]

Each time you go on a character, the "hold" command is overwritten. The best is to go in Tactical Mode and check the status and applied it there.

 

But even then, I've seen character with the "hold position" flag beside their avatar in Tactical mode following me around when 30 seconds earlier they worked super fine and the other 2 parties members are no following me around (all behavior was set to follow Cassandra which I was not controlling at the time might I add). So I think there is a bug...

[Casuist]

Hold position works best in tac cam (and it worked well for me on that particular puzzle) but I think the ai pathing sometimes overrides the command moving between transitions (cave entrances and bottlenecks, or the puzzles in What Pride Had Wrought) ... The issues can be worked around for me but it definitely feels buggy.

[hexaligned]

I haven't run into this yet and I haven't seen that puzzle. Would turning off the AI on all of the characters help?

I have the AI completely turned off and I have never had a problem with characters not holding position when I tell them to (PC with gamepad).  I mean eventually they will of course leash back to your character if you get far enough away from them, I don't think there is anyway to get around that.  I always do it in tac mode as well though.

[Ieldra]

No, the hold command is not overwritten every time you select a character. It is overwritten every time you give another command to a character that requires them to move. Some levers, switches etc. make the character move in front of it if they aren't standing practically on it, and that counts as moving. If they are standing near enough to the lever/switch and in a position that they only have to move their arms, the hold command stays active.

 

You don't need to find that position, though. I did that infamous puzzle by switching into tactical mode, moving a single character to the required position, re-issuing the hold command and repeating that for every character that had to be at a specific place. Then I switched through them and gave everyone their interact command.

 

I agree, though, that "hold position should be a toggle" like it was in DAO. There should be a mode where characters don't move unless you explicitly order them to move.  

[In Exile]

I think getting them your NPCs to follow themselves helps.

[Blackstork]

I am with you , OP. I agree 100% with you. Oh, Maker, how do I. 

I hope BW will fix this, sometimes i want to close this amazing game just because how clunky, un-comprehencible DA:I tactics are even compared to DA:O. 

IT IS awful downgrade to what DA:O had.

BW, please.

[Yriss]

After reading the feedback so far, it seems that using Tac-Cam is the key, even though it feels buggy.

 

Kind of disappointed that Hold only works in Tactical Mode... so tedious.

[Rowan]

Kind of disappointed that Hold only works in Tactical Mode... so tedious.

 

You don't need the Tactical Mode for Hold to work. I think Hold is overwritten if you ask the follower to perform an action that makes them move. This includes taking a couple of steps to get close to a torch.

[Jaulen]

Hold is very inconsistent, so glad it's not just me and my keyboard!

 

Much swearing at my house trying to get companions to stay in a spot and not follow me around.

[Rasande]

It's not you, it's just a god awful system. Whenever you give a character another task after hold they'll stop holding, also the hold command dosen't work on the character you're control(i don't think, maby it does if you don't move)

 

At any rate Bioware has reached a milestone of the most retarded AI ever created and somehow manage to make it worse by getting rid of tactics and making the means to control them clunky as hell.

 

I swear, if i leave them alone for even a second, half the time they will do the absolutely most retarded thing they can do like run into fire or start attacking the most distant mob ever that i didn't even notice.

It's not micro managing like in DA:O or even DA2, it's not exacuting a strategy or using tactics exactly like i want it, it's more like hearding a group of suicidal cats.

 

I love this game but i swear to god... 

[Shaftell]

I feel like the hold position doesn't work when you command it as the character. However, when the inquisitor makes the command it should work. At first you move to point, then hold position. I don't get what the fuss is about? Unless your games might be bugged? I'm not sure.

[pinkjellybeans]

For that puzzle I had to smash the hold key endlessly. And holding is incredibly useless in combat. it just doesn't work. I just want Solas to stay away from the fight so I tell him to hold the position on top of a rock but as soon as I switch characters there he goes, to the middle of the action. Honestly, this game was designed to give players a headache by making everything complicated.

[katzenkrimis]

The game can't be that stupid, it must be me.

It's not you.

 

It's broken.

 

And stupid.

[Korva]

Ah yes, the Exalted Plains puzzle. I did that yesterday -- it helps if you're used to the tactical camera, crap as it is. Giving them the hold position command in that mode made them stick to it even when I switched back and forth to and from normal and tactical.

 

Honestly, at this point one of my biggest pleas to Bioware is: stop effing with the combat and the UI. Stop the shallow arcady nonsense. As long as you're making squad-based games, give us tactical squad-based combat worth the name. Even if hardly anyone who worked on the Baldur's Gate series is still around, those games remain as a good model for how to do it right. You're just shooting yourself in both feet and needlessly dragging opinions of your games down if you make them this fiddly and annoying to control.

[Hrungr]

Yeah, the Hold command has given me no shortage of frustration as well. So many times I've seen companions simply ignore the command, even when you can clearly see the "Hold" symbol on the ground in Tac-View, and just run up into melee range of enemies.

 

HOLD SHOULD MEAN STAY ON THIS SPOT AND DO NOT MOVE.

[Kantr]

Yeah, the Hold command has given me no shortage of frustration as well. So many times I've seen companions simply ignore the command, even when you can clearly see the "Hold" symbol on the ground in Tac-View, and just run up into melee range of enemies.

 

HOLD SHOULD MEAN STAY ON THIS SPOT AND DO NOT MOVE.

Unfortunately going out of tac cam cancels any commands that arent "Attack someone" which is annoying in haven when trying to rescue people.

 

I gave up on the torch puzzle because they wouldnt interact with it properly