63 réponses à ce sujet

[NRieh]

I can't say anything about the puzzle ( I haven't seen one), but I play as a DW stealthy rogue. And many times when I told them to STAY and tried to perform some sort of stealthy covert action had my party happily engaging whatever mobs they could find on their way to me. Apparenty they can't spend a minute without their  little precioussss Quizzy-girl.  *sigh*

 

ps: and I can't say that 'disengage' works much better, by the way. It's usually 'Disengage and run away...DISENGAGE! I Said DISENGAGE... Oh. well, it's faster to kill that thing'. 

[hairlessOrphan]

I'm even more convinced I'm missing something after playing a section last night that I just gave up in frustration after fighting with trying to get everyone to stay in particular places. The game can't be that stupid, it must be me - there is no way that particular puzzle would have passed QA if the mechanism was fundamentally broken. 

 

It's not you, it's the game.

 

Keep in mind this is the same game that gives you jumping puzzles but doesn't let you turn in place. Trying to change direction necessitates a three-foot step - usually off a thin ledge. Bug or feature? Hard to say.

 

Keep in mind this is the same game where items found by the search ping are highlighted in the same color as the dominant background of two entire zones (Western Approach and Forbidden Oasis). Bug or feature? Hard to say.

 

Keep in mind this is the same game where saving and reloading will reset the states of switches in some dungeons. Bug or feature? Hard to say.

 

Keep in mind this is the same game where NPC followers will take fall damage, and also they will path over steep ledges and long drops, and you can't stop them. Bug or feature? Hard to say.

 

I'm not saying there was, like, zero QA testing. I'm sure there probably was some.

[Hrungr]

Unfortunately going out of tac cam cancels any commands that arent "Attack someone" which is annoying in haven when trying to rescue people.

 

I gave up on the torch puzzle because they wouldnt interact with it properly

 

Also, it would be less annoying if the AI would take their role into consideration more consistently. If you're a ranged character - stay out of melee range! Stop running up to our enemies like you want to give them hugs! And it wouldn't hurt to at least try and move out of the way when a melee enemy runs up to you and starts throwing you a beating (at the very least change your target to that guy if you're not given specific instructions to the contrary).

[Swordfishtrombone]

First off, the obligatory whinge: why isn't stay/follow a toggle the way it was in DA:O? It was very clear and lead to no confusion. It occasionally led to loneliness as I forgot my party was on 'stay' and I wandered off after a battle only to notice later that they were obediently standing there as told, but never confusion.

 

QFT!!

 

It was much better as a toggle.

 

I too struggled with that puzzle, not because it was too hard to solve, but because I had trouble controlling my characters and getting them to stay.

 

Solved it eventually, after much frustration. The thing is, you have to go to tactical mode, take control of a character, and double click on the location where you want them to go and stay there. The icon on the ground on the spot where you've directed them to turns into a shield shape when they have received the command to stay there.

 

It's all too easy to mess this up, and accidentally forget to click twice, as one intuitively expects the "hold" to work as a toggle, in the same clear, and very simple way it did in the previous games.

 

Instead, now it's this annoying, error prone process.

 

PLEASE Bioware, fix this with a patch, forget about the way it's done now, and revert to a simple toggle. That would be much appreciated.

[wright1978]

Glad i'm alone in being infuriated by this.

[DAJB]

First off, the obligatory whinge: why isn't stay/follow a toggle the way it was in DA:O? It was very clear and lead to no confusion. It occasionally led to loneliness as I forgot my party was on 'stay' and I wandered off after a battle only to notice later that they were obediently standing there as told, but never confusion.

 

With the new 'hold position' command I am completely unclear on exactly how it works. It appears to be just a 'quick command', so when I press it the party all are told to stay. But what causes it to reset and for them to go back into follow mode? That isn't clear, to me, and so I think I must be missing something.

 

I'm even more convinced I'm missing something after playing a section last night that I just gave up in frustration after fighting with trying to get everyone to stay in particular places. The game can't be that stupid, it must be me - there is no way that particular puzzle would have passed QA if the mechanism was fundamentally broken. 

So the situation was this (no spoilers, but references to some generic gameplay mechanisms you might not have encountered in DA:I yet):

- a large room that has some torches to be lit, some levers to be pulled and a stone to stand on. One character can't perform all the actions needed before the puzzle resets.

- to get a party member in front of every level/torch I had to select them, click stay, move them into position

- as soon as I switched to a different party member I had to click stay again pretty dam quickly otherwise everyone came running to me

- So while trying to light-torches/pull-levers in order I'd have to change character, click stay, operate lever/torch, change character, click stay, operate level/torch, change character, click stay, operate level/torch and finally change character, click stay, operate level/torch. On a couple of attempts at this process I'd evidently not clicked 'stay' properly, so on switching character I'd find they'd left position and were in the middle of running for a group hug with the previously controlled character

 

After a few attempts at this particular puzzle I gave up, deciding my sanity was not worth the small satisfaction from battling with this control mechanism. I must be doing something wrong, how is this kind of thing supposed to be approached? Is there a definitive toggle stay/follow option? I want my characters to STAY until I tell them otherwise, irrespective of if I switch character and move them around ... the rest of you bozos just STAY!

Ha! I know exactly which room you mean. I had to resort to Youtube to crack it. I'm not proud of that but, after an hour or more of struggling, I couldn't bear to leave it uncompleted!

 

The "Hold" command requires you to go into tactical mode, highlight where you want a party member to move to and then press again to set the hold spot. Maybe that's obvious to some, but it wasn't for me.

 

Anyway, although the Hold command is not especially intuitive (and does indeed cancel itself far too easily!), if you're thinking the solution to the puzzle is to get a party member to stay put on that floor plate ... it isn't. Check it out on Youtube. Using the Hold command does play a part, but that's not really the main part of the answer to this particular puzzle.

[shama]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, and I am glad I am not alone in suffering! I admit to not having tried to use tactical mode to solve this puzzle, but to be honest the fact the room had a roof (and there were plenty of columns and ground obstacles for the 'tactical' camera to get stuck on) made me think it wasn't wise to even try. I'll rethink that from the feedback you've all given.

 

As for hold not being a toggle, that does baffle me. It is (should be) a very straightforward state-switch for the AI ... either move where you like, or just stay stationary. That's it. I don't want the AI to decide when it should change from hold to move, that should be something I decide. It should be transparent and obvious, and at the moment it isn't.

 

As some of you have mentioned, this simple change from how the mechanism was implemented in DA:O can lead to huge frustration in combat. My first dragon fight was one such frustration, as my party was 2 mages, 1 archer and 1 tank. I wanted to place the 3 ranged characters at distance around the dragon and stay there, while the tank slugged it out. Spacing was important, because of the dragon's AoE attack, distance was important because of the fact they're ranged and so can attack from range! Finally for my archer it was important that they maintained high ground to get the combat bonus from their abilities. Needless to say the fight didn't go that smoothly as randomly those ranged characters would decide to run at the dragon, leave their high ground, and just huddle together so that a single fireball could set them all alight. Using the tactical camera was not pleasurable as the dragon is huge so to target it I had to move the camera close to the ground so that I was allowed to point it upwards.

 

I wasn't fighting a dragon at that point, I was fighting the controls.

[shama]

It's not you, it's the game.

 

Keep in mind this is the same game where NPC followers will take fall damage, and also they will path over steep ledges and long drops, and you can't stop them. Bug or feature? Hard to say.

 

 

My favourites have been warriors doing their charge-attack thingy and flying straight past all the enemies and having to slog back to the action while the soft-squishy party members are getting a beating, or when archers do their leaping-shot thing while on a narrow ledge (and of course jump off that ledge and are out of the fight while they try and find their way back).

[Clive Howlitzer]

Your companions really don't like following orders. They are also extremely fickle. I think it might be something in the water in Haven.

[Ieldra]

I wasn't fighting a dragon at that point, I was fighting the controls.

Yeah, unfortunately that happens often. Anything that requires precise control of movement is a PITA. I can't walk, I can't turn, I can't tell my companions to hold position until I toggle it off. I'm not bothered overmuch, but then I'm rather tolerant of suboptimal controls. There is a great deal of room for improvement here. 

 

At least dragons can be killed.

[DemGeth]

ah yes.

 

put on person in place hit hold

 

move next person in place hit hold

 

move next person hit hold

 

double check that they actually stayed in place

 

double double check....oh wait one moved.  for no reason.  move that person back. 

 

and than your good 

 

simple.........

[Degs29]

I hear you OP.

 

I'm mostly frustrated with another, similar issue though.

 

"Revive Varric."

"I said revive Varric!"

"WTF, why didn't you revive Varric when you were over there???"

"If you rejoin the fight one more time without reviving Varric, I'm going to leave you in a closed room with Cole and Vivienne for a week!"

"Oh, now you revived him...sheesh!"

 

Seriously, I have to babysit my characters to make sure they actually revive people.  Otherwise they run over to the fallen companion, but then rejoin the fight without reviving them.

[Ekliane]

No, the hold command is not overwritten every time you select a character. It is overwritten every time you give another command to a character that requires them to move.

 

Pressing a lever in front of them is considered moving almost every time if they are not properly aligned, which doesn't change the fact that they WILL move everytime you switch them for this particular puzzle.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Oh that FU*KIN puzle. took me an hour to do a f munuit puzzle.

[leaguer of one]

1. Select character.

2.Go to area where you want character to hold.

3. click right mouse once.

4. Click right mouse a second time to have shield/hold symbol come up.

5. Let character walk there.

 

Any questions?

 

It also help if you turn ai off.

[Navasha]

Its a pain, but you have to switch to each character move them into place and then hit the hold button.   The hold button only works for one character at a time it seems. 

[metalfenix]

Even DA II got the hold command right.

[Eelectrica]

Remembering the puzzle you're all talking about, and yeah easy to figure out how to solve it, but excecuting the plan due party members following the Inquisitor around like lost puppies was annoying.

[LaughingBanana]

Huh, is this a PC thing? Because I played in PS4 and the hold command works just as I expect it to be, especially during that particular puzzle. Nothing wrong with it at all. And I never use tactical camera for it either.

 

Just pulled up the radial wheel, told a character to hold, and she/he stayed put, and switch to another one, etc etc. It worked well.

 

Weird,,,?

[Ascendra]

Actually I did the puzzle and had no problems with companions staying. For them to follow again i pressed 'disengage', they followed instantly.

Played on PC, didnt use tactical camera. I even placed characters next to the required levers and switched between them.

[hairlessOrphan]

Actually I did the puzzle and had no problems with companions staying. For them to follow again i pressed 'disengage', they followed instantly.

Played on PC, didnt use tactical camera. I even placed characters next to the required levers and switched between them.

 

Was this post-patch?

[Ascendra]

Was this post-patch?

Pre-patch. I'm waiting until meshes get fixed.

I should probably note that i used my main character and the rest of the party as two groups. My character navigates the group to position, then issues 'stay', then moves to a lever. The group stays next to another lever. I take control of a party member and pull the lever and so on.

[Swordfishtrombone]

1. Select character.

2.Go to area where you want character to hold.

3. click right mouse once.

4. Click right mouse a second time to have shield/hold symbol come up.

5. Let character walk there.

 

Any questions?

 

It also help if you turn ai off.

 

Compare this five step process to how it was done in previous games:

 

1. Click the "hold" toggle.

2. Move your characters as you like, they will stay where you put them, until you click the "hold" toggle again.

 

This was a prime example of a developer "fixing" something that wasn't broken in the first place, and resulting in something unnecessarily more complicated, and prone to frustrating mis-click caused running around.