63 réponses à ce sujet

[shama]

Compare this five step process to how it was done in previous games:

 

1. Click the "hold" toggle.

2. Move your characters as you like, they will stay where you put them, until you click the "hold" toggle again.

 

This was a prime example of a developer "fixing" something that wasn't broken in the first place, and resulting in something unnecessarily more complicated, and prone to frustrating mis-click caused running around.

 

That's what got me really - I couldn't believe I'd need to press "hold" so many times, and that moving a character would remove their 'hold' status. It should be a really simple 'hold until I *tell* you otherwise. Yes I may manually move you, but I still want you to hold until I give you permission to freely move'. Otherwise puzzles like this, where you have to switch to different party members and maybe move them a little, becomes something much more frustrating (and requiring more clicks/presses) than it needs to.

 

Ho-hum, developers do like to change things that worked just fine before (and had no complaints). It's human nature or something.

[Amaror]

First off, the obligatory whinge: why isn't stay/follow a toggle the way it was in DA:O? It was very clear and lead to no confusion. It occasionally led to loneliness as I forgot my party was on 'stay' and I wandered off after a battle only to notice later that they were obediently standing there as told, but never confusion.

 

With the new 'hold position' command I am completely unclear on exactly how it works. It appears to be just a 'quick command', so when I press it the party all are told to stay. But what causes it to reset and for them to go back into follow mode? That isn't clear, to me, and so I think I must be missing something.

 

I'm even more convinced I'm missing something after playing a section last night that I just gave up in frustration after fighting with trying to get everyone to stay in particular places. The game can't be that stupid, it must be me - there is no way that particular puzzle would have passed QA if the mechanism was fundamentally broken. 

So the situation was this (no spoilers, but references to some generic gameplay mechanisms you might not have encountered in DA:I yet):

- a large room that has some torches to be lit, some levers to be pulled and a stone to stand on. One character can't perform all the actions needed before the puzzle resets.

- to get a party member in front of every level/torch I had to select them, click stay, move them into position

- as soon as I switched to a different party member I had to click stay again pretty dam quickly otherwise everyone came running to me

- So while trying to light-torches/pull-levers in order I'd have to change character, click stay, operate lever/torch, change character, click stay, operate level/torch, change character, click stay, operate level/torch and finally change character, click stay, operate level/torch. On a couple of attempts at this process I'd evidently not clicked 'stay' properly, so on switching character I'd find they'd left position and were in the middle of running for a group hug with the previously controlled character

 

After a few attempts at this particular puzzle I gave up, deciding my sanity was not worth the small satisfaction from battling with this control mechanism. I must be doing something wrong, how is this kind of thing supposed to be approached? Is there a definitive toggle stay/follow option? I want my characters to STAY until I tell them otherwise, irrespective of if I switch character and move them around ... the rest of you bozos just STAY!

 

The "hold" command sucks, but i figured i out, i think. 

The thing is that hold is a command, which gets canceled every time a character does anything else. So to have a person stay you just move the person were you want them to be, THEN press hold and then switch character, without doing anything else with the previous character. And you have to remember to press hold every time you are done with a character doing something, otherwise they will immediatly run to the character you select next.

[Gowardo]

BW should just speak to whatever engineer developed the AI commands for Baldur's Gate 2. They had it right.

 

And can I just say, how on earth is it possible that there is no "Hold ALL" command? It's ridiculous, whoever was in charge of AI and controls for Inquisition should be shot in the eye.

[MrMrPendragon]

I had to do that puzzle as well. I think if you switch to the character, it overrides the stay command.

 

So for example, I ask Sera to stand on this stone then go on to sort the other guys. I accidentally switch to Sera then switch back again to Inquisitor. Sera's stay command might have been overridden as soon as I switched to her.

 

 

Not sure if that's it, but yeah, I struggle with the Hold Position command, especially when I'm trying to lead enemies into choke points - so incredibly hard.

[Trickshaw]

If you're a rogue or have a rogue in your party and are at that puzzle you can go stealth and everyone stops moving.

It's a way to cheat the broken system.

[LorDC]

Hold is obviously broken. First - it toggles for entire party. Want one character to move and other one to stay? No luck for you. Second - it isn't actually a  toggle, but an action. Want you character to only move under your command? No luck either.

[Degs29]

Compare this five step process to how it was done in previous games:

 

1. Click the "hold" toggle.

2. Move your characters as you like, they will stay where you put them, until you click the "hold" toggle again.

 

This was a prime example of a developer "fixing" something that wasn't broken in the first place, and resulting in something unnecessarily more complicated, and prone to frustrating mis-click caused running around.

 

To be fair, it's a two-step process here too if you know what you're doing.

 

1.  Enter tactical view.

2.  Double click where you want your character to stay.

 

Done.  However, although that works most of the time, on a few rare occasions during combat it doesn't. 

[Swordfishtrombone]

To be fair, it's a two-step process here too if you know what you're doing.

 

1.  Enter tactical view.

2.  Double click where you want your character to stay.

 

Done.  However, although that works most of the time, on a few rare occasions during combat it doesn't. 

 

The difference is that you have to remember to double click each time you move a character. This is a process prone to error, and thus frustration. In the earlier games, you just turned on the hold toggle, and moved your chars any way you liked, and they would always stay where you left them, until you clicked the hold toggle again.

 

This was a much simpler way of achieving the same result, and much less error-prone method. It was, at least as I see it, a clearly better mechanism.

[Lanavis]

I still don't know why Bioware's Dragon Age team decided to completely remove/change the previously established tactics customization and hold commands from DAO. 

[Lanavis]

My favourites have been warriors doing their charge-attack thingy and flying straight past all the enemies and having to slog back to the action while the soft-squishy party members are getting a beating, or when archers do their leaping-shot thing while on a narrow ledge (and of course jump off that ledge and are out of the fight while they try and find their way back).

lol The former happened to me alot, which was an issue since I had Cassandra as my tank and 3 mages. Instead of being the focus of the enemy tanks while my mages helped finish the ranged fighters and the weaker warriors/rouges, Cassandra used charge to literally miss ALL enemies and propel herself several feet away from the action (and still accelerating away) while my mages were frantically trying to kill all the approaching warriors before they killed my mages. 

 

After that, I disabled Cassandra's charge attack so she couldn't use it and leave my squishier characters vulnerable. 

 

I also had to disable the dispel magic b/c Solas would use it to dispel MY OWN magic. My PC used static cage to keep some enemies trapped and away from the squishier members so of course Solas thought it would make perfect sense to use dispel even tho there were no enemy mages and the only magic that he did dispel was the static cage that was keeping him, a ranged Varric, and my mage Inquisitor safe from taking direct melee damage.

 

I love the Dragon Age series and do not regret preorder this game, but the bioware devolopers' actions confuse the heck out of me with them blatantly dismissing great things (e.g. hold command and tactics) from previous games and instead replacing them with something subpar.

[tself55]

I never used the "hold position" command from the radial menu, but got my characters to keep their position just fine using the "defend area" action in tac cam. Double-A on the ground where you want them, its never failed for me.

[hexaligned]

I never used the "hold position" command from the radial menu, but got my characters to keep their position just fine using the "defend area" action in tac cam. Double-A on the ground where you want them, its never failed for me.

Oh...this is also what I was referring to with my previous post.  I had actually forgotten there was an actual hold position button, I just double click on the area where I want them to hold and never really had a problem with it.

[shama]

I never used the "hold position" command from the radial menu, but got my characters to keep their position just fine using the "defend area" action in tac cam. Double-A on the ground where you want them, its never failed for me.

 
 

Oh...this is also what I was referring to with my previous post.  I had actually forgotten there was an actual hold position button, I just double click on the area where I want them to hold and never really had a problem with it.

 
Thanks - I will have to try this.
Last night I had a fight against the dragon that uses lightning attacks

Spoiler

Who charges all the water you are fighting in, so it is really important your team aren't standing in water

... and the stupidity of the AI was galling. Cassandra went off charging away from the fight, ranged characters would randomly come in close and get zapped, and then when I thought I'd managed to get everyone nicely spaced and separated from each other a character or two would teleport to the controlled character! Grah! Just stay THERE. Don't teleport because you miss me, just stay and shoot from range as you've been told to do.

[RUDAL]

My favourites have been warriors doing their charge-attack thingy and flying straight past all the enemies and having to slog back to the action while the soft-squishy party members are getting a beating, or when archers do their leaping-shot thing while on a narrow ledge (and of course jump off that ledge and are out of the fight while they try and find their way back).

I use Cassandra as my main tank and I had to disable the use of that skill cause she always miss the target. She truly IS a Seeker but barely finds her targets. 

 

I haven't done the puzzles yet but I got to fight in some narrow cave in Hinterlands.

I was in narrow passage, I've put Cassandra to block the enemies from one side and got Solas to put Ice Wall on the other side to stop them from flanking me. How surprised was I when Cassandra left her place, smashed the wall and run around the corrner to attack something at the back pulling even more enemies from god knows where.

 

I didn't even wait for the fight to finish, just reloaded the game and just let them run around blindly and die. What a waste on potions...