150 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Is an explanation necessary as to why a mirror oozing the Blight and killed someone is dangerous?

[TheJediSaint]

Let's be honest, even if it was a prolonged period of trying to convince Merrill, going with the "let the demon possess me" option was still a bit extreme. She could have just, sealed of the cave with magic or guards or something so Merrill couldn't enter at a whim.

Temporary solutions at best.  Merrill would've found a way.  

[Xilizhra]

Is an explanation necessary as to why a mirror oozing the Blight and killed someone is dangerous?

Well, the abomination's explanation has nothing whatsoever to do with that...

[daveliam]

 

In the exact way that it'd ensure that Merrill had the highest chance of dying horribly, in the demon's own lair.

 

Also, Merrill isn't that naive.

 

Not under the protection of Hawke and his friends.  You think that it's a coincidence that Marethari hooked Merrill up to Hawke's wagon? 

 

Also, Merrill isn't always naive.  She's surprisingly aware on several issues.  The dangers of Pride demons is not one of those issues, sadly. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

It's part of the long-term plan.  Sealing Merrill off from the cave just means that she'll either try to find her way into the cave or will just turn to the next demon that comes along.

 

Marethari had to teach her to not want to seek demons.  Just hiding the demon behind a barrier will either make Merrill want it more or look for a different one.  She felt she needed to change her mind on demons. 

She doesn't want to seek demons she wants to fix the mirror. Take the mirror away and she has no cause to go after the demon.

[TEWR]

Again, she didn't jump right to that action.  She spend years trying to convince Merrill in other ways.  I also think it's telling that the entire rest of the clan also disagrees with Merrill.  Unless that's somehow to be blamed on Marethari as well?  Let me guess, she poisoned their minds against her?  Right? 

 

 

Well, she did tell the clan that Merrill would bring back the taint and corrupt them all (she admits this brazenly to your face) despite the fact that Merrill and she had already gone over how it's been cleansed.

 

I dunno about you, but making people fear and revile you isn't going to be conducive to getting anyone to come back without incident.

 

Just look at what Pol did. He ran into the arms of a crazed Varterral which killed 3 hunters already because he hated Merrill that much. And I have to wonder why Marethari A) didn't tell us Pol was in there or B ) didn't notice Pol was missing in the first place.

[Noelemahc]

Why did Marethari try to dissuade Merrill from competing the Eluvian?

Because its dangerous

You cannot eat bread. It's dangerous. No, I don't care that other kids eat it. DANGEROUS. You might have a gluten allergy.

No, I'm not taking you to a doctor to test whether you have one. Isn't my saying it's dangerous enough?

[TEWR]

At this point I suspect I'm not gonna be able to fall asleep. I am a weak person.

[Xilizhra]

Not under the protection of Hawke and his friends.  You think that it's a coincidence that Marethari hooked Merrill up to Hawke's wagon? 

 

Also, Merrill isn't always naive.  She's surprisingly aware on several issues.  The dangers of Pride demons is not one of those issues, sadly. 

This is absurd. A pride abomination is supposed to be much more threatening than a pride demon alone. She could have just unbound the demon from the statue and left it standing there so everyone would be forced to kill it, if it had to go that far. And if Marethari is so stuck in this symbolism business, I don't think she loved Merrill much at all--she never acts loving, so that would at least make sense.

[daveliam]

Well, the abomination's explanation has nothing whatsoever to do with that...

 

Tamlen died because of an Eluvian (and, in my playthroughs, so did Mahariel).  What other explanation is needed for people? 

 

See that mirror over there?  The one that the PRIDE DEMON is asking you to fix up for him?  Yeah, it killed two members of our clan a few years ago. 

[Xilizhra]

Tamlen died because of an Eluvian (and, in my playthroughs, so did Mahariel).  What other explanation is needed for people? 

 

See that mirror over there?  The one that the PRIDE DEMON is asking you to fix up for him?  Yeah, it killed two members of our clan a few years ago. 

Died because of a tainted Eluvian. That has nothing whatsoever to do with demons. Demons hate the darkspawn taint.

[Knight of Dane]

Ooh another juicy Merrill thread. And as I can see Xil and TEWR is already on the prowl. I missed these threads..

[daveliam]

This is absurd. A pride abomination is supposed to be much more threatening than a pride demon alone. She could have just unbound the demon from the statue and left it standing there so everyone would be forced to kill it, if it had to go that far. And if Marethari is so stuck in this symbolism business, I don't think she loved Merrill much at all--she never acts loving, so that would at least make sense.

 

Ah, I see.  Okay, then.  I'm out.  We are clearly just making up facts now.

 

Enjoy the conversation all!

[Steelcan]

You cannot eat bread. It's dangerous. No, I don't care that other kids eat it. DANGEROUS. You might have a gluten allergy.

No, I'm not taking you to a doctor to test whether you have one. Isn't my saying it's dangerous enough?

a gluten allergy isn't the same as a Mirror that oozes the Blight and killed someone, there isn't anything hypothetical about this

 

Merrill in her own stubborn and prideful ways thought she could overcome it

[TEWR]

Tamlen died because of an Eluvian (and, in my playthroughs, so did Mahariel).  What other explanation is needed for people? 

 

See that mirror over there?  The one that the PRIDE DEMON is asking you to fix up for him?  Yeah, it killed two members of our clan a few years ago. 

 

Except the Pride Demon never asked Merrill to fix it up. It was Merrill's intention to fix it up from the beginning. That's why she kept a shard from the original.

 

Also Gaider said there was no "fixing" the Eluvian in the sense of mending a broken plate. Rather it was making a new Eluvian.

[TheJediSaint]

You cannot eat bread. It's dangerous. No, I don't care that other kids eat it. DANGEROUS. You might have a gluten allergy.

No, I'm not taking you to a doctor to test whether you have one. Isn't my saying it's dangerous enough?

More like don't play with fire after dousing yourself with gasoline.

[Steelcan]

Except the Pride Demon never asked Merrill to fix it up. It was Merrill's intention to fix it up from the beginning. That's why she kept a shard from the original.

 

Also Gaider said there was no "fixing" the Eluvian in the sense of mending a broken plate. Rather it was making a new Eluvian.

which was stupid of her

[TheJediSaint]

Ah, I see.  Okay, then.  I'm out.  We are clearly just making up facts now.

 

Enjoy the conversation all!

Get out while you can.  Xil's delusions can only be ignored, not dispelled.

[TEWR]

which was stupid of her

 

Maybe, if it was unprotected. Given that she knew Dalish healing magic which weakened Mahariel's Taint in its raw form, I would suspect some sort of ward or something was placed on it and it was kept locked away to keep it from spreading its taint (since Elves who came in contact with the fragments in WH were tainted by it, probably not knowing what its deal was)

 

however for that I have no proof, as it was never discussed how she carried it for a year without incident.

[Xilizhra]

Get out while you can.  Xil's delusions can only be ignored, not dispelled.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Merrill has not been possessed despite my not having changed her attitude on things, yes?

[Ianamus]

Whether or not the mirror was dangerous or not does nothing to change the fact that Merrill spent around a decade on the Eluvian and learnt absolutely nothing about ancient elven culture from it. In fact, Morrigan expressed more knowledge about Eluvians in one sentence that Merrill did in ten years! And Morrigan knew a great deal about anicent elven culture beyond the Eluvians as well.

 

It's not even going to be of practical use if she does get it working, since Briala already has a completely functional Eluvian system of her own.

 

Why should she keep wasting her time?

[AresKeith]

"He can't possess me, I'm too powerful and smart to be possessed"


remind me, what kind of demon is Audacity?

I bet that pride was a 5-star meal

[Noelemahc]

Again, she didn't jump right to that action.  She spend years trying to convince Merrill in other ways.  I also think it's telling that the entire rest of the clan also disagrees with Merrill.  Unless that's somehow to be blamed on Marethari as well?  Let me guess, she poisoned their minds against her?  Right? 

Did you not notice my post about bullying? I had a lenghty essay on this matter on the old BSN, but all Dragon Age-related threads went the way of the dodo when the new forums were instated.

 

Basically, Marethari's handling of Merrill - making no secret of her obsessions, making NO mitigating efforts towards her or her clanmates, led to the wonderful state that Hawke meets her in, when she willingly leaves her clan behind to be anywhere but with the people supposedly closest to her, while her clan kind of treats her like that weird kid at the back of the class whose shoelaces they glue together or fill their locker with used feminine hygiene products.

 

It's like a textbook "complacent teacher is aware of bullying but doesn't do anything about it" situation you see in a lot of sad real life stories about suicidal teenagers.

[TEWR]

Whether or not the mirror was dangerous or not does nothing to change the fact that Merrill spent around a decade on the Eluvian and learnt absolutely nothing about ancient elven culture from it. In fact, Morrigan expressed more knowledge about Eluvians in one sentence that Merrill did in ten years! And Morrigan knew a great deal about anicent elven culture beyond the Eluvians as well.

 

It's not even going to be of practical use if she does get it working, since Briala already has a completely functional Eluvian system of her own.

 

Why should she keep wasting her time?

 

Could be a step towards fixing the busted ones, or at least determining how they should and shouldn't be used. Briala has a functional Eluvian system yes, but how much does she really know about them? Genuine question, don't have TME.

 

Also Morrigan had an entire book devoted to Eluvians, while Merrill only had scraps of lore and extrapolations to go off of. Not really a fair comparison, though it's still impressive how Morrigan got one working (more so if she had a kid with her to raise at the same time). Also Morrigan had Flemeth for a parent figure, so that has its benefits for ancient history.

 

...with the drawback of a very strained relationship, to put it mildly.

[Noelemahc]

a gluten allergy isn't the same as a Mirror that oozes the Blight and killed someone, there isn't anything hypothetical about this

 

Merrill in her own stubborn and prideful ways thought she could overcome it

Again, Marethari DOESN'T HANDLE IT LIKE A PRACTICAL SITUATION. Never once is she shown having a sit-down with Merrill with a serious attitude about "What the hey is wrong with you, people have already died from this thing, and you're gonna die too, or get someone killed, like that pretty warrior lady you keep swooning over when you're not too busy trying to rebuild an ancient artifact of doom, get laid already, or something".

 

Tethercat principle says that if she's only shown using strawman arguments and manipulating other people into outright BULLYING her, that she's never actually tried the Hawke way of sternly but politely outlining the PRACTICAL dangers of an Eluvian. And since these actions culminate in her letting the demon possess her rather than, you know, KILLING IT, before it corrupts any other members of her clan (note the lack of care about her clan again?), it would appear that she's not the brilliant Keeper you keep trying to make her out to be.