206 réponses à ce sujet

[King Dragonlord]

They will not be fired if they say no, they are very important do you think its easy to train another team of video game programer, writers and artists. It takes time and way more money then if they accepted the no from the team. Also a team at the level of Bioware's team is not gonna stay long without a job many  game company's want them and if they have the oportunity they will bend over to take them. I bet that EA kisses the ass of Bioware's team to keep them. Talented individuals like the ones from Bioware do not need EA to survive they need EA so they can fulfill the  the need for self-realization and to get to that point you certanly do not have to worry about your basic needs.

 

pffft!!!

 

Are you serious? 

 

Game Developers and writers are far far from being in short supply. You need only look at the explosion in indie titles to see the evidence. Its not like they would lose the integrity of the work either. Even if they canned Gaider, EA could go nuclear and hire Obsidian to write the next game (and the story would be better.) 

[Draining Dragon]

It annoys me that, given more time, Bioware adds more content instead of ensuring that the rest of it is actually fun and playable.

[berrieh]

@berrieh:

 

I agree that gamers need to be realistic in their expectations and take promotional material with a large grain of salt, but there are a lot of gamers who don't do that and take things at face value, and the publishers take advantage of the lack of sophistication of a large segment of their target audience. Yes, there are smart gamers who don't believe the hype, but there are lot more (especially the young ones) that get sucked in by the flashy trailers, marketing hype, and bullshots into paying money for something that ends up significantly different to what was advertised. Watch Dogs is a prime example of the hype over-promising and the game under-delivering.

 

I get the Watch Dogs complaints - that was shown at E3 and promoted as something truly new. It wasn't. It wasn't even particularly good at being something old. (Watch Dogs wasn't horrible, but it clearly wasn't what they hyped and it was fairly subpar in too many areas for the type of game it was.) But comparing that to one leaked PAX footage from a private event, labeled pre-Alpha and obviously not fully developed (if you watch it), which demonstrated features they never actually marketed actively.... I don't really see that as the same thing as the Watchdogs E3 thing that was shown at a major conference for public consumption to create hype for the IP. 

 

I actually haven't seen any DA:I trailers that portray the game to be different than it was. Now, the PC UI/controls issue is potentially very real (as someone who has no desire to play anything with a keyboard if I don't have to, I don't know enough about it - hence the word "potentially") - I remember them touting they'd spent some time on that. Apparently, it was not enough, and they have addressed that they will improve it (to what degree, we have no idea), so it has been "officially answered" to some degree. 

 

In the case of DA:I, it wasn't so much a case of "not believing the hype" as much as it was "not creating the hype in your own mind." 

[Darkly Tranquil]

I wasn't saying that DAI was dishonest in its promotion for the most part, although I think they did rather gloss over the PC controls situation, I was speaking more in terms of the way game publishers operate in general. 

[berrieh]

I wasn't saying that DAI was dishonest in its promotion for the most part, although I think they did rather gloss over the PC controls situation, I was speaking more in terms of the way game publishers operate in general. 

 

Ah, gotcha. Well, I don't think it's all game publishers, and I think they usually get called on it in a major way if they do so (and sometimes get called on it on the internet even if they don't). Some of the biggies definitely do it. 

 

Of course, I don't see a lot of game's marketing (I saw the DA trailers, because I love the series) outside of things like E3 and reviews on Youtube so I may just be missing the hype. I see very few commercials, period. 

[In Exile]

pffft!!!

 

Are you serious? 

 

Game Developers and writers are far far from being in short supply. You need only look at the explosion in indie titles to see the evidence. Its not like they would lose the integrity of the work either. Even if they canned Gaider, EA could go nuclear and hire Obsidian to write the next game (and the story would be better.) 

 

What are you talking about? Most places don't have dedicated writers, and Obsidian has carved out an excellent reputation in writing without necessarily placing their own alumns in great places. 

 

Most development houses don't care about writing. 

[wicked cool]

So were the people who watched da2 commercials that showed sophisticated blood magic naive or were they mislead by over zealous marketing. Same goes for mass effect 3 ending. They should have accepted it. Well they didnt and why should this be any different.

That footage wasnt a movie or artwork . It looked and felt real. You could feel the excitement from the developers and people in the room. Call me gullible on customized kepps and buring boats and varric crying. That varric scene sucked me in abd brouht me right back to redcliffe and awakening. That was intentional! Go back and check the message biards on the leliana fiotage and how choices mattered and how many people swore not to take her on that mission . I also believed them when they said last gen wouldnt be as good but was still good. In regards to choices mattering we had seen the blueprint from 1&2. Only logical that 3 would top both

[Morroian]

For example, they talked about how we could play the whole game in Tac Cam. But we can't. We can't becausebof the limitations of the Tac Cam, limitations they tried to resolve but couldn't. Limitations they might have been able to resolve if they'd known about them from the start, but there comes a point in development where all the other features that are connected to this feature are too expexpensive to change just to achieve this one outcome.

 

Wasn't that only 2-3 months before release though?  

[AlanC9]

Also EA makes their deadlines people, *nods disapprovingly* you're crazy to think BioWare would make a deadline and then rush the game out if they were their own independent group. You don't have the luxury of making your deadlines and doing things your way if someone bought you out and they tell you to launch a game by this date whether it's ready or not.

You also don't have the luxury of "making your own deadlines and doing things your way" if you don't have enough money to pay for all that development time yourself. Would an independent Bio have been able to afford the deadline extensions DAI got, or would they have had to push the game out even earlier to keep the lights on?

[In Exile]

You also don't have the luxury of "making your own deadlines and doing things your way" if you don't have enough money to pay for all that development time yourself. Would an independent Bio have been able to afford the deadline extensions DAI got, or would they have had to push the game out even earlier to keep the lights on?

 

An independent Bioware would basically be living paycheck to paycheck, and one bad release could fold the company. 

[Spectre Impersonator]

pffft!!!

 

Are you serious? 

 

Game Developers and writers are far far from being in short supply. You need only look at the explosion in indie titles to see the evidence. Its not like they would lose the integrity of the work either. Even if they canned Gaider,

Yes please.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wasn't that only 2-3 months before release though?  

I dont' recall when the statement was made.  But there's no telling when the point of no return arrived.

 

Allan Schumacher mentioned that making the game playable entirely in Tac Cam mode was a design goal, and they worked toward it until giving up.

[Sylvius the Mad]

An independent Bioware would basically be living paycheck to paycheck, and one bad release could fold the company. 

Isn't that why they sold themselves to EA?  They'd spent 4 years on Dragon Age, but couldn't convince a publisher to fund it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EA could go nuclear and hire Obsidian to write the next game (and the story would be better.) 

Obsidian focuses far too much on their story, and not enough on leaving space to roleplay.  Their need to write the PC for us is what ruined KotOR2.

 

[Morroian]

Obsidian focuses far too much on their story, and not enough on leaving space to roleplay.  Their need to write the PC for us is what ruined KotOR2.

 

I would say some of their games like say Fallout NV are not like that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would say some of their games like say Fallout NV are not like that.

Are you supposed to have amnesia at the start of New Vegas?  If not, then they did it again.

 

Torment worked because of the amnesia.  It's the same thing BioWare did with KotOR.  Otherwise, you need a blank slate PC like NWN.

[Morroian]

Are you supposed to have amnesia at the start of New Vegas?  If not, then they did it again.

 

Torment worked because of the amnesia.  It's the same thing BioWare did with KotOR.  Otherwise, you need a blank slate PC like NWN.

 

Don't think so, this link explains it:

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Courier

But I found the character to be very much a black slate at the start. 

[AlanC9]

Isn't that why they sold themselves to EA?  They'd spent 4 years on Dragon Age, but couldn't convince a publisher to fund it.

That's pretty much how I recall it.

Now I'm thinking of Troika. After V:TM tanked -- or wasn't a hit, anyway -- they were toast. I suppose they would have made it if either V:TM or ToEE had been a hit.

[Sartoz]

snip

------

Perhaps rather than demanding they reveal only what they can guarantee what will be in final version, they need to do a better job of separating what will be in the game and what they hope will be in the game.

Exactly! 

However, marketing is there to convince us to buy the game. Marketing, therefore, has no morals, no boundary. The good ones just skirt on the edge of outright lies. They certainly are masters of mis-information. Marketing speak partial truths. Marketing's role is to hype, generate interest, make us salivate for the product. TV food ads show those super coloured green products..... delicious, yes? BUT, what do we get?

 

So, my new year's resolution is:

ME4 is a game I will not pre-order.

[Sartoz]

You also don't have the luxury of "making your own deadlines and doing things your way" if you don't have enough money to pay for all that development time yourself. Would an independent Bio have been able to afford the deadline extensions DAI got, or would they have had to push the game out even earlier to keep the lights on?

Then, if those are the constraints, you trim the game ambition.

 

I'm personally convinced that many of the game's shortfalls is due to the man-hours spent in converting the FPS Frostbte engine to work as a RPG. The original plans was ambitious and probably quite doable. Except, the conversion bit into the allotted game development time. So, as the deadline approached, the noose tightened and cuts were made, corners shaved.

 

Product delivered as is.

[AlanC9]

Then, if those are the constraints, you trim the game ambition.

Agreed. I'd be OK with trimming all the way back to DA2, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority there.

I'm personally convinced that many of the game's shortfalls is due to the man-hours spent in converting the FPS Frostbte engine to work as a RPG. The original plans was ambitious and probably quite doable. Except, the conversion bit into the allotted game development time. So, as the deadline approached, the noose tightened and cuts were made, corners shaved.

You're thinking that there was an original plan using, say, an upgraded Eclipse? Or just that the plan to use Frostbite turned out to be unrealistic when put into practice?

[Shahadem]

In the demo, the bandit fort you take over in Crestwood you have to fortify,  then comes a point where the enemy attacks the city and the fort and there is a save the town or save the fort mission.  

 

I'm glad they got rid of that. I hate false dichotomies. No reason why you can't save both considering the massive army you have at your disposal by that stage of the game. That really pissed me off with DA: Awakening as well. I could have easily saved both, especially because there was no way that the darkspawn could have penetrated the fort after I took all that time to make sure the darkspawn army that I knew was coming wouldn't be able to penetrate the defenses. What was the point of building walls, closing off entrances in basements, setting explosive traps, leaving behind a ton of defenders, if the game wouldn't even pay attention to all the work I did? Especially when I did all that work precisely to address the exact situation that arose.

[Grieving Natashina]

Spoiler

 

A wild Natashina draws near!

 

Natashina casts Outrage at EA!

 

...

 

Not enough MP.

[helpthisguyplease]

pffft!!!

 

Are you serious? 

 

Game Developers and writers are far far from being in short supply. You need only look at the explosion in indie titles to see the evidence. Its not like they would lose the integrity of the work either. Even if they canned Gaider, EA could go nuclear and hire Obsidian to write the next game (and the story would be better.) 

Most Indie games suck and few are at the level of Bioware's one, this team worked with difficult engines like the hero engine and frosbite engine and made pretty successful games with them while indie devs chose easy engines. When you have so many good games under your belt and the ability to work with such hard engines and become a expert at them in so few years you are better then most. And if you wanna quit EA I bet you can get another job in the industry without a problem because as I said they do not work at EA to fulfill their basic needs because they could do that easily out of EA they do that because EA helps them improve profesional and creatively. Think the movie industry there is no shortage of actors but big buget movies hire only the ones who proved themselves that are popular because they do not wanna risk having bad actors and because many people believe in the skill of those actors or stars and they will watch the movie so they bring viewers just because they are in the movie.

The same with Bioware they proved themselves so its little risk of them disappointing and are already trained with the engines EA wants to work  and many people believe in their ability to make a great game so more people preorder the game because of them. Also its more expensive to hire Obsidian then having your own team.