87 réponses à ce sujet

[saladinbob]

I tell you what I miss most about Origins. Being able to get past the first cut scene without the game bloody well crashing on me!

[GreyJedi727]

I agree. I feel far less connected to my Inquisitor that I ever did for any of my Wardens and I think its because the Inquisitor just appears without background or context. You begin with no knowledge of this character's history, home, or kin, and are just thrown into it without any preamble. Without that context, I find I don't relate to the character anywhere near as much I did to my Wardens after meeting characters like Bryce and Elenor Cousland, Cyrion Tabris, and Rica Brosca. These relationships with their families made the character much more fleshed out from the get-go, unlike the Inquisitor, who is just sort of there. 

There is a short detailed description following your choice of race and class in the beginning, prior to creating your characters appearance. Maybe Bioware will take the Origins debate/request/melancholy into account and make DLC to flesh out the beginning for each characters special background, and you can flesh out their personality and Origins in the beginning.

Or you can skip it if there is something further in the game that is revealing that I haven't caught up to yet.

Worth a thought? If nothing else, just a thought of mine. *shrugs*

[Sylvius the Mad]

Agreed, it's a matter of taste.

For me, ME2 is the best of the three ME games. I had lots of fun playing DA2, even if I wasn't completely happy with it. The Witcher 1+2 are just awesome. And I will always love BG1+2 and Throne of Bhaal. Try the Enhanced Editions, they are worth it.

The EE kind of ruins BG, in my opinion. And since the original game is still playable, I choose the original.

[Sully13]

I headcanoned it

Headcanon is better.

Nah Michel Bay would shove you in a movie.

[Lebannen]

I am starting to believe that Bioware was extremely lucky with the storytelling but have really dropped the ball with the last 2 big property titles. They have completely erased what little confidence in them turning out a finished product. Mass Effect 3 and DA:I have the two worst endings in the history of gaming. I mean this is worse than Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance: Epic Story Voice: And the villagers rejoiced... Hurrah! The End. I was refunded my money back because this is NOT the game that was advertised, and reeks of the same crew who did ME3. I wish another Class Action suit was filed for failure to deliver promises.

[DetcelferVisionary]

Remove multiplayer - spend time with origin stories = win.  

 

Personally, I didn't feel cheated in the slightest NOT having an origin.  There was a lot of discussion over my Qunari. About where I came from,  what I had done in the past,  and what I believed in and that was good enough for me. Less so for my human.

 

The origin would essentially be inconsequential to the main storyline.  Clearly they found that part more important.  

[Tex]

I've got to say the city elf origan was great but it was a big kick in the face when you came back and found they had all been slaughtered that really made me biased when it came to the stupid shemlens exspeasialy the royals and she was so kind until then "sigh" oh well.

[Mari]

My issue with the lack of origin stories was that it felt like the game expected you to know what was going on right away. Like, conclave? What conclave? Why was I there? Uh, I think that one sentence at the beginning said I was there to spy for my clan? I guess???

[Blue_Shayde]

Yeah, and the only contact I have with my clan? A war table mission that ends in a little letter. That's it. Like...wow....I feel so connected to my character's life and past now.

[ent1]

I nominate Marjolaine for Miss Origins.

[KarmaD]

I agree with so many of you on this topic. I found myself wanting to prolong the end as long as possible in Origins and even part2. The new one just made me want to finish and be done, almost like it lost its soul.. I personally think their best titles were Origins, Mass effect 1 and my favorite being Kotor. I still think they should remaster that bad boy! My2

[Kantr]

That doesn't mean they can't fail. Or that they still have the same creative input as back then. Hell, it would be enough to run into writer's block with a deadline approaching, so they present something mediocre instead of getting enough time to deliver their best.

 

DA:O was released 5 years ago, do you believe a company like BioWare wouldn't change in that time? Change isn't bad, DA:I has lots of improvements ... but it is lacking in a few key areas and that's what upsets people.

 

Honestly, if I didn't want to know how the Dragon Age story continues, then I wouldn't have bought DA:I. As a standalone it's not good enough to compete with Skyrim, The Witcher or DA:O and DA2.

 

Shiny but empty.

You have hardly any story and no origin at all in skyrim

 

We don't all like the same things.

I couldn't tolerate The Witcher for long enough to see any of the story. The combat was appalling.

DA2 is easily the worst BioWare game. Even worse than ME2, a game so bad I didn't even consider playing its sequel.

I've been waiting for years for BioWare to make a game like Baldur's Gate again (not BG2 - I don't really like BG2), and now finally they've done it. It's spectacular.

I can't play the first witcher either because of the combat. Which really annoys me as I have the second game and want to get the third one.

[DaemionMoadrin]

You have hardly any story and no origin at all in skyrim

 

 

True. That's because Skyrim is a different kind of game. It is build around the open world concept, giving you freedom and choices. You start out as a nobody and the entire game serves as your origin. Do you become the arch mage? Do you run the thieves guild? And so on.

 

In DA:I your path is predefined, you can't ignore it without running out of things to do quickly. You have no choice but to become the Inquisitor, to recruit all those people and save the world. Which means defining your character needs to happen before all that.

 

There is a difference between deciding "This time I'll be evil, rude, aggressive and loud, with no patience." and going through your origin story and becoming that way because of reasons. Show, don't tell.

 

My mage Inquisitor got asked about his past. I have several options for my family and the Circle in Ostwick but what are they to me? How can I say I miss my family if I never met them? What if they are a bunch of wankers? How can I say I enjoyed my time in the Circle when I don't know if I got bullied by the templars? Saying that there was a templar I had a crush on is just words at this point. If, during my origin story in the Circle, I got to flirt with the templar in question, then my character would feel more real to me.

 

Being a blank slate works in MMOs and in games like Skyrim, because there you have the freedom to choose who you are and what you become. In a story driven game like DA:I? Here you'd need the time to define not just who you are but why you are that way.

 

Good characters have motivations driving them. Your companions certaintly have those. And the Inquisitor just goes along because they don't have anything better to do. Remember Chancellor Roderick? He was a jerk but he was a fleshed out character with his own motivation, goals and background story. He made sense.

Why is there nothing my Inquisitor feels passionate about? I have no agenda beyond "Survive and save the world." That's boring! My Inquisitor isn't really connected to anything in the game, he's just there. Yeah, I could simply decide on a personality and goals etc... but the game might contradict me there. Or even worse, it doesn't matter because the Inquisitor isn't a character, they are just the avatar of the gamer. And it's the wrong kind of game for that.

[saladinbob]

Invisible walls. Origins made much better use of scenery blocking your route off the map. Inquisition relies on invisible walls. It's highly immersion breaking.

[King Dragonlord]

Invisible walls. Origins made much better use of scenery blocking your route off the map. Inquisition relies on invisible walls. It's highly immersion breaking.

 

I've never played an open world game that doesn't use them. Its either than or you have contrived looking scenery. I opt for the invisible walls.

[fchopin]

I agree with op.

A pc character without some kind of history behind them is a dead character.

[saladinbob]

There's a number of places across Inquisition's areas that have scenery that in other places you would be able to jump up on and explore but on top of this scenery it has invisible walls preventing you from doing that. It invites you to explore then laughs in your face when you try to do that. Better to have scenery that is beyond your capacity to jump on top of than some invisible wall.

[SongstressKitsune]

I headcanoned it
Headcanon is better.

Totally agreed; I feel more connected with my Inquisitors, if anything, because I get to sit back and decide what their pasts were like beyond the most basic bits of "where did s/he come from?" There's no origin showing me that Lavellan has a parental relationship with the Keeper of his/her clan, so it's my choice to headcanon whether s/he does or whether it's more contentious or perhaps s/he thinks they're all assholes and is glad to be away, and I much prefer being able to write my own backstory vs, having it spelledout for me!

[wicked cool]

Not sure why it would have been so hard to add more to the begining. A mini origin that led up to you entering that room

[fchopin]

Not sure why it would have been so hard to add more to the begining. A mini origin that led up to you entering that room

Even some text would have been better than what we got. Even Mass Effect had more than DAI.

[herkles]

I don't mind origins not being there, however they should have. IIRC one of the complaints about inquistion was that it wasn't lore-newbie freindly. Meaning if you weren't familar with the lore you could be confused.

 

Now that we are going North we might need them and if we are going to Tevinter then we will need some sort of prologue for people. How many casual people will know: what an Archon, Magister, the Magisterium, the imperial chantry, a libertari, Saparoti, Laetern, Altus are? How many would know that tevinter templars don't know how to despell magic. What about the imperial chantry and divine? Would a casual know that they support magic, hell would they even know that they worship andraste and the maker? 

 

 

So I thought of some ideas for what Origins could be if we were in Tevinter.  As the point of any little origin is to get people as quick as possible while also seamless as possile into understanding tevinter culture and society. They also should give you plot reasons to do certain actions, ie siding with bhalen as a castless dwarf.

 

More over, EVERY ORIGIN, should feel important and connected to the story and there should be at least 1 unique side quest to each background, not a main quest but basically a companion quest for yourself. the only one atm I am not sure about is the qunari origin. so any ideas for that one? but beyond them here are my ideas:

 

Elf rogue/Warrior - the slave/libertari

 

The elves in Tevinter should be a city elf. We played as a dalish, thus for the non-mage city elves, lets show them tevinter at its utter worse. You are a slave. You have no rights. You were bought up by a magister along with your brother/other family members. You serve a magister. This magister is cruel, horrible, and it is the stuff of nightmares. 

 

the origin would be your city elf enduring and fighting back against it. It also will embrodily your city elf as pawns between a rival magister. Here though things will take a turn for the better, as he will turn you against your master by granting you Libertari status for killing him, and he would up hold his end of the bargin. 

 

comparing it to Origins, it naturally would be similar to the city elf origin there, but also have a bits of the casteless dwarf origin style and feeling. You should feel the oppression, this is the worst of tevinter and you need to see it. All the horror just at the begining, but you also need to feel how schemes are every where. you can't do anything without getting caught in plots.  

 

also by ending as a libertari, it grants you freedom to do plot stuff later in the game. 

 

Quests concepts for later: freeing your brother/sister/relatives from slavery. The slavery plots and quests(which there must be some) should have extra options for this origin.

 

Human Rogue/Warrior - the Saporati. 

 

the human origin for the rogues and warriors is the Saporati class. Here the you would be the son or daughter of a rising merchant family. Here you should feel the glass cealing of tevinter society. You also should feel the breath of the mages here. So as merchants, skilled merchants your rival though is not a mage but another rival merchant family. 

 

The basic plot would be a wedding/formal event of some sort with a rival merchant family between. Either you or another relative would be married to this merchant family to end tensions. Things go wrong though, and the other family comes to murder yours. You escape and then join up with [insert plot group here]

 

If I could compare it to anything from origins, I would say this is actually closest to the human noble origins. The reason your antagonist should be another saporati is that while you should feel the tension between the two classes, you aslo need to keep in mind that other non-mages are just as cruel and competive as you are. Basically tevinter godfather 

 

Quest concepts: merchant dealings/intrigue and helping your family rebuild. While this should have set your family back alot as your parents are slaughtered, you and several others should live and vow to rebuild your family name and get revenge on your rival and [plot group] will be your way of doing just that. 

 

for this origin, if one of the Love intrests was from your rival family, that would make things more interesting story wise. 

 

Elven Mage - the Laetern

 

The elven mage is of the Laetern class. They were born as a slave, but when they had magic they entered one of the circles of magi. Here you should feel the disdain for being an elf. You have power just as this altus does, yet you are being treated lesser because of your birth. You should feel it. 

 

You get to witness how your master approves of another mage, just because he is human. You are a more powerful mage then this man, yet your teacher is showing him more respect. the origin is about the intrigues and racisim of the mages. You go to gain relics and power to prove that an elf is just as good as human. of course one of the relic is cursed and things go bad.

 

if comparing to origins: this is similar to the mage origin. atm it is my least devoloped concept

 

 

Human - the Altus

 

the peak of power. The origin of the human mage is the Altus, a scion of a proud family. Here the origin should speak of the high level intrigues and introduce you to what a true mage of the imperium is. 

 

The origin would start after your harrowing. A great banquet has been prepared for you, you have succeded and have 'graduated' as a mage. You have recieved an apprentinceship from a a prominit Magister, and you should like your magister. However over the course of the origin, one of the magisters rivals would strike against him and you would be the scape-goat for his death. Your family's graces drop and their fortunes drop. you join [plot group] to redeem your name.

 

The origin from origins that this takes insperation from is the dwarf noble(it is one of my favorites). The rival magister, naturally should play a role as Bhalen/Harrowmount did. You are to learn that mages are constintly in danger even the mighty and you need your wits to survive. 

 

quests concept: aside from anything dealing with the rival, you also should have quests in regards to the intrigues that your family is doing. 

 

Dwarves - outside in

 

You are from a powerful dwarven family in Tevinter. Your ancestors came from Kal-Sharok but it has been ages since you were there. Here you see tevinter from an outside perspective. A dwarf is not a citizen of the empire but a diplomat and you see it from a different perspective. Though intrigues also exist here. 

 

The plot here would you be working for your family when you discover a lost thaig. This thaig is links to the ancient city of Kal-Sharok and might be a way of reaching them. Of course dark-spawn, intrigue and curses await you. When on your way back, betrayl will strike you, for what you discovered is of great find and your best-friend/sister/brother wants the glory not you.  You join [plot group] to gain revenge but also as a way to possible persue what you discovered.   

 

Comparision to origins: the dalish with a bit of the dwarf noble. Here you learn about dwarves. The reason for Kal-Sharok is that I get the idea we might visit it in the next game, so this would allow you to tie into that plotline much better. 

 

Quest concept: assuming we visit Kal-Sharok, then your quest would be about what should your family do, particularly if there are some members left in Kal-sharok. Do they join? stay in tevinter? you can help decide. 

 

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Not sure why it would have been so hard to add more to the begining. A mini origin that led up to you entering that room

Every extra piece is hard, because resources are stretched pretty thin.

And I think the game is better for not having done that. This is just like how NWN did it; you're at the academy when it is attacked, and people treat you like you're a student there. But everything else is left for you to decide.

KotOR, too. The game leaves it to you to decide why you're on the Endar Spire at all. You ostensibly share a bunk with Trask, but if you've never seen him, maybe he's never seen you. Everything he tells you might be hearsay.

In DAI, everyone who can confirm or deny any detail about why you were at the Conclave or what you did there is dead. They did write a bit more backstory than NWN did (you were a Circle Mage at Ostwick), but nothing in the recent past at all.

You could roleplay character who actually was trying to blow up the Conclave, but someone else beat you to it. This is a freedom DAO didn't offer.

[King Dragonlord]

There's a number of places across Inquisition's areas that have scenery that in other places you would be able to jump up on and explore but on top of this scenery it has invisible walls preventing you from doing that. It invites you to explore then laughs in your face when you try to do that. Better to have scenery that is beyond your capacity to jump on top of than some invisible wall.

We must endeavor to keep this knowledge out of enemy hands. If Corypheus were to learn of our inability to climb rickety waste high fences, we'd all be doomed.

He has seen us jump. That we cannot jump that high has yet to enter his imagination.

[abearzi]

Every extra piece is hard, because resources are stretched pretty thin.

And I think the game is better for not having done that. This is just like how NWN did it; you're at the academy when it is attacked, and people treat you like you're a student there. But everything else is left for you to decide.

KotOR, too. The game leaves it to you to decide why you're on the Endar Spire at all. You ostensibly share a bunk with Trask, but if you've never seen him, maybe he's never seen you. Everything he tells you might be hearsay.

In DAI, everyone who can confirm or deny any detail about why you were at the Conclave or what you did there is dead. They did write a bit more backstory than NWN did (you were a Circle Mage at Ostwick), but nothing in the recent past at all.

You could roleplay character who actually was trying to blow up the Conclave, but someone else beat you to it. This is a freedom DAO didn't offer.

 

I disagree that DAI actually has that potential. With the voiced protagonist, there is a canonical delivery of each line with inflection and phrasing. As a Tal'vashoth it is established that you were a merc hired as security. That got botched, and the way it is actually voiced in game makes the PC deliver the lines in a specific way. Yes, I could headcanon it to seem like the most convincing liar in history, but having to do that constantly over the actual delivery of each line breaks the flow and the RP effect. Unlike Shepard in the ME series (or even Hawke), the voiced Inquisitor never really seems to develop a personality. Each conversation is approached as a tabula rasa, undermining the weight or impact any previous conversations and decisions could have had.

[Tsunami Chef]

I headcanoned it

Headcanon is better.

This...They even have people ask you why you were at the conclave, what your relationship was like with your family..etc...it's failry obvious they did this so you could head canon things. I know everyone loved Origins..but it wasn't very immersive for me....i created a dark skinned character and had a full white family...and it felt awkward as ****. I much prefer being able to head canon my family and past then forced into one that either doesn't make sense or isn't how i want my characters past to be. I basically had to roleplay i was adopted and no one knew it or Ms. Cousland cheated on the Teyrn with a big black dude.