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[Dean_the_Young]

But poor human peasants can still go burn down elven houses. Their lives suck. They can't do anything to those that oppress them, so they go oppress people even less fortunate.

 

...

 

Sh*t rolls down hill, but even amongst the poor, there are classes and levels.

 

Which is about as relevant a rebuttal to 'sucks to be poor' as arguing about soil composition does in a mud fight.

 

No one 'wins' in misery poker- poor and regularly oppressed people don't become rich and powerful when put beside even poorer and more oppressed people, and the most pitiful don't get exclusive rights to moral sympathy claims for redress.

 

The benchmark to any collective allocation of sympathy is 'bad enough,' not 'worst.' There is no inherent reason why someone can't dedicate themselves to a group larger than the poorest racial minority.

[Dean_the_Young]

I thought alienage elves had similar "us or them" views as the Dalish when it came to racial mixing, doesn't Soris loving a human woman cause a riot in the alienage that forces him to leave?

Dalish and city elves have significantly different views on elven identity, in large part because of the differing levels of assimilation and interaction with humans.

 

What's more relevant, though, is that neither class (Dalish or city elf) are united enough to be particularly consistent. Each Dalish tribe is it's own unique microcosm of a shared culture- but city elves don't even have that. City elves differ by nation, by city and alienage, and in many respects by occupation. What starts a riot in one context would not start one in another.

 

There is no established cultural/racial preservationist movement amongst the city elves that has been presented as on-par with what the Dalish conduct as a matter of course.

[InstantNoodlez]

Which is about as relevant a rebuttal to 'sucks to be poor' as arguing about soil composition does in a mud fight.

 

No one 'wins' in misery poker- poor and regularly oppressed people don't become rich and powerful when put beside even poorer and more oppressed people, and the most pitiful don't get exclusive rights to moral sympathy claims for redress.

 

The benchmark to any collective allocation of sympathy is 'bad enough,' not 'worst.' There is no inherent reason why someone can't dedicate themselves to a group larger than the poorest racial minority.

Ah but the case is that the city elves, particularly those in alienages, are still discriminated and marginalized against the most, by both the upper class and other lower class citizens. This is, however, simply a statement, not a call for sympathy. Being poor does not give anyone higher moral grounds. Being poor does not make one decent. But being the poorest in a money and class based society would make one feel acute differences. Perhaps a person from a higher class would say, they are all poor, and they are all suffering. But because they don't live in the puddle, from above the mud all look the same.

 

But when a person who wants to dedicate him/herself to better the poor and strike back at the rich also divides the lower class in his/her head by criteria such as demographics, it does make one wonder if said person's bias would cause some imbalance in how he/she interact with the people he/she professes to endorse.

[Battlebloodmage]

Sometimes, when someone is poor, it is not because they're not trying, it's because of the way society is constructed that prevented them from move up in the world. City Elves are not allowed to hold very high position and a lot of them are forced to live in the alienage. Sera seems to think about poor elves and how they identify too much with being elves, ignore the fact that it is what most people see them as, so they can only find solace by supporting each other based on their identity and social class.

[helpthisguyplease]

She is young and full of anger and with little understandings of the hardships of the world she is think that all elves have the ability to rise above their station, she thinks all as are lucky and talented as her. But as many real life teenagers and young adults she is under the impression that most people work legally under a boss and under the system because we became the slaves of they system and we accepted our place. But as most of those people learn after they fall on their nose a couple of times they will find out that the system bring more benefits then issues and if we want to fight it we will come to the conclusion that risk does not outweigh the benefits so its better to be passive agressive with the system then to die trying to change it by direct force as it was proven many times before.

[stop_him]

She also believes in mage segregation. Sera is not much of a thinker, pretty hypocritical at times. She'll help out the little people, so long as the "little people" aren't elves. What's next? Does she dislike gay men, too? I find her character a bit ill-conceived.

[veeia]

She also believes in mage segregation. Sera is not much of a thinker, pretty hypocritical at times. She'll help out the little people, so long as the "little people" aren't elves. What's next? Does she dislike gay men, too? I find her character a bit ill-conceived.

 

No, she and Dorian are bros, and also, what?

 

As has been said before, Sera gets beyond pissed when she finds that servant elf who was endangered by Briala's scheming. She hates it when the little people who are elves are in danger. She just doesn't like any idea of elven solidarity. You have to remember that she was an orphan, who was then raised by humans.  She doesn't like elven solidarity-elf pride stuff because she's never fit in with elves. It's sad, really, but very believable. 

 

Re: mages, she's just scared of magic. I think the theories she was in the haunted Denerim orphanage are very interesting with regard to that, but even without that as a background, magic is scary to the "common folk", so it's not out of character. She gets along with mages fine, as long as she doesn't think they're condescending to her or judging her (like Solas and Viv).  She's just understandably afraid of what happens if there are no circles, because in her experiences (and she's right), when anything about the status quo changes, little people get hurt and no one cares. Sure it could be better in the long run, but she's not a long term thinker. 

 

She is hypocritical at times, yes. I don't' disagree with that, haha. But it's a flaw, and characters need them. 

[Steve236]

No, she and Dorian are bros, and also, what?

 

As has been said before, Sera gets beyond pissed when she finds that servant elf who was endangered by Briala's scheming. She hates it when the little people who are elves are in danger. She just doesn't like any idea of elven solidarity. You have to remember that she was an orphan, who was then raised by humans.  She doesn't like elven solidarity-elf pride stuff because she's never fit in with elves. It's sad, really, but very believable. 

 

Re: mages, she's just scared of magic. I think the theories she was in the haunted Denerim orphanage are very interesting with regard to that, but even without that as a background, magic is scary to the "common folk", so it's not out of character. She gets along with mages fine, as long as she doesn't think they're condescending to her or judging her (like Solas and Viv).  She's just understandably afraid of what happens if there are no circles, because in her experiences (and she's right), when anything about the status quo changes, little people get hurt and no one cares. Sure it could be better in the long run, but she's not a long term thinker. 

 

She is hypocritical at times, yes. I don't' disagree with that, haha. But it's a flaw, and characters need them. 

The problem is she never really interacted with elves when she was young she was brainwashed to hate her own people by the human that raised her.

[veeia]

Yup. Sera is unfortunately very similar to some cases I've seen of white American couples adopting children of color from overseas. Some are great, of course, but some (often even just out of ignorance, not malice) really mess up their kids racial identity by trying to raise them "colorblind" in a world that's not, while looking down on their country of origin.

[LobselVith8]

OK... I think reallity I'm not sure if there is a word for it, but its more of dislikes Dalish Culture. Dalish Culture, seems to be pretty xenophobic.

 

It's an ethnic group of people who strive to live on their own terms on a continent populated by humans who are overtly hostile to them. It's a culture aimed that allowing the elves within the clan to have the freedom to follow their own gods, the autonomy to govern themselves, and where their mages can be free. The reality is that it's a hard life to be Dalish, from the Chantry outlawing their religion to humans driving them off land if they stay too long, and even the templars pursue the clans for their mages.

 

So while Sera is not a 'racist' she dislikes Dalish Culture, mainly because of the whole, "we are victims, if you aren't Dalish you aren't an elf" type of stuff. Basicly she dislikes that kind of attiutde.

 

Frankly, Sera expresses contempt at Lavellan upon seeing that the protagonist is an elf. Sera doesn't express a negative opinion due to what Lavellan says, but what the main character's race is.

 

Also, one of the first things Lavellan can tell Solas is that the Dalish are his people, too, and we had Merrill referring to the Kirkwall elves as 'elves' and expressing that their plight matters, so we already know this isn't a mindset held by all the Dalish. There's also no evidence that Sera has even met a Dalish elf before.

 

Furthermore, Sera doesn't seem to like the city elves. Sera particularly dislikes Briala, and opposes giving Briala power over the throne (despite her goal to empower the Orlesian elves), while she supports Gaspard ascending to the throne, despite his racist language to Briala and his infiltration of the ball with mercenaries.

[Ultim Asari]

Sera is best character

[Mr.House]

It's an ethnic group of people who strive to live on their own terms on a continent populated by humans who are overtly hostile to them. It's a culture aimed that allowing the elves within the clan to have the freedom to follow their own gods, the autonomy to govern themselves, and where their mages can be free. The reality is that it's a hard life to be Dalish, from the Chantry outlawing their religion to humans driving them off land if they stay too long, and even the templars pursue the clans for their mages.

 

 

Frankly, Sera expresses contempt at Lavellan upon seeing that the protagonist is an elf. Sera doesn't express a negative opinion due to what Lavellan says, but what the main character's race is.

 

Also, one of the first things Lavellan can tell Solas is that the Dalish are his people, too, and we had Merrill referring to the Kirkwall elves as 'elves' and expressing that their plight matters, so we already know this isn't a mindset held by all the Dalish. There's also no evidence that Sera has even met a Dalish elf before.

 

Furthermore, Sera doesn't seem to like the city elves. Sera particularly dislikes Briala, and opposes giving Briala power over the throne (despite her goal to empower the Orlesian elves), while she supports Gaspard ascending to the throne, despite his racist language to Briala and his infiltration of the ball with mercenaries.

Considering that Briala is abusing and using her own people just like any other  noble, why should Sera care for Briala? Celene and Gaspard don't bullshit or try to hide behind honey words on this aspect where Briala does. So yeah Sera attitude to Briala is very justified.

[veeia]

Celene does bs though, and Sera just wants in her pants. She has a special grievance against Briala, for sure, and it's related to her being an elf. I wonder how Sera would have felt if she met the Briala who was in TME...because there we saw her goals were genuine and she wants to help the "little people" elves, and it's not like Sera is opposed to using noble connections in the way Briala did, see her comments on Josie.

[Mr.House]

Celene does bs though, and Sera just wants in her pants. She has a special grievance against Briala, for sure, and it's related to her being an elf. I wonder how Sera would have felt if she met the Briala who was in TME...because there we saw her goals were genuine and she wants to help the "little people" elves, and it's not like Sera is opposed to using noble connections in the way Briala did, see her comments on Josie.

Oh Clene does bs, but she won't bullshit why she does her stuff when pressed and Gaspard is blunt as a hammer. Briala on the other hand plays the "elves are oppressed card!" card to get power. Briala might have wanted to help her people in TME, but that changed sometime before DAI. She is just a power hungry fool using her own people as tools. I'll take Celene or Gaspard over her any day.

[LobselVith8]

Oh Clene does bs, but she won't bullshit why she does her stuff when pressed and Gaspard is blunt as a hammer. Briala on the other hand plays the "elves are oppressed card!" card to get power. Briala might have wanted to help her people in TME, but that changed sometime before DAI. She is just a power hungry fool using her own people as tools. I'll take Celene or Gaspard over her any day.

 

If Briala was simply interested in power, she would have taken up Celene on her offer of nobility, instead of outright refusing it because she knew Celene would stop helping the elves if it threatened her position with the nobility.

[veeia]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion about Briala. Sure other people say that, but it's such an obvious propaganda technique to try to make her less appealing to the elves that might consider rebelling.  The game never shows us that she's actually power hungry at all. There is that awkward scene with the serving elf, but it's also made clear in that scene that it might not have even been Briala who sent her, and even if she had, while I sympathize with Sera's perspective, in a rebellion like Briala is throwing, some people will be put in danger. It's not like Briala knew that there were going to be assassins there anyway. 

[Mr.House]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion about Briala. Sure other people say that, but it's such an obvious propaganda technique to try to make her less appealing to the elves that might consider rebelling.  The game never shows us that she's actually power hungry at all. There is that awkward scene with the serving elf, but it's also made clear in that scene that it might not have even been Briala who sent her, and even if she had, while I sympathize with Sera's perspective, in a rebellion like Briala is throwing, some people will be put in danger. It's not like Briala knew that there were going to be assassins there anyway. 

Brialas spy network is a massive threat, so massive that Gaspard and Clene where in fact writing to eachother in private on this matter. I don't buy that she knew nothing about venatori agents when Morrigan knew and she does not have a vast spy network.

 

Briala has spies everywhere in the Winter Palace, she also just happens to send the spy who knew about her past and something that could be used against her to an area that even we knew was going to be a vipers nest.

[Hellion Rex]

Brialas spy network is a massive threat, so massive that Gaspard and Clene where in fact writing to eachother in private on this matter. I don't buy that she knew nothing about venatori agents when Morrigan knew and she does not have a vast spy network.

 

Briala has spies everywhere in the Winter Palace, she also just happens to send the spy who knew about her past and something that could be used against her to an area that even we knew was going to be a vipers nest.

I agree that Bri probably knew, but Morrigan didn't know till she caught one guy snooping around.

[Mr.House]

I agree that Bri probably knew, but Morrigan didn't know till she caught one guy snooping around.

That's the thing, if Morrigan who has no spy network and is not even a spy could catch one snooping around, it makes no sense that someone like Briala who's network is bigger then Gaspard and Celene would not know.

[Hellion Rex]

That's the thing, if Morrigan who has no spy network and is not even a spy could catch one snooping around, it makes no sense that someone like Briala who's network is bigger then Gaspard and Celene would not know.

I would even hazard to say that Briala's network might only be second to Leliana's.

[stop_him]

No, she and Dorian are bros, and also, what?

 

As has been said before, Sera gets beyond pissed when she finds that servant elf who was endangered by Briala's scheming. She hates it when the little people who are elves are in danger. She just doesn't like any idea of elven solidarity. You have to remember that she was an orphan, who was then raised by humans.  She doesn't like elven solidarity-elf pride stuff because she's never fit in with elves. It's sad, really, but very believable. 

 

Re: mages, she's just scared of magic. I think the theories she was in the haunted Denerim orphanage are very interesting with regard to that, but even without that as a background, magic is scary to the "common folk", so it's not out of character. She gets along with mages fine, as long as she doesn't think they're condescending to her or judging her (like Solas and Viv).  She's just understandably afraid of what happens if there are no circles, because in her experiences (and she's right), when anything about the status quo changes, little people get hurt and no one cares. Sure it could be better in the long run, but she's not a long term thinker. 

 

She is hypocritical at times, yes. I don't' disagree with that, haha. But it's a flaw, and characters need them. 

When you offer an alliance with the mages at Redcliffe, she disapproves. When you talk to her about it at Haven, she says something to the effect of "Mages want to be free? Fine, over there, away from me." Sounds a lot like some of the BS people in real life say about certain minority groups. Or is a child dragged away from his family without being able to say goodbye not enough of a little person, Sera?

 

I find her dislike of elven solidarity--in her own words--stupid. It is only when people rise in solidarity that they are able to find strength, or at some point, effect change. I also do not find her hatred of elves well established. Too little of her background was provided for her "I hate elfy elves" attitude to make sense. She just says that she doesn't like how elves they wallow in their past. Oh, really? Well, then tell Dorian to STFU about his pariah-hood, and his daddy issues--that's all in the past. Tell the slaves of the Imperium to "get over it." I bet she'd say this kind of rubbish to the indigenous people of the Americas. Nevermind the historical and cultural context of the issue, which is what you can say to her in game, but it just flies over her head. 

 

Make no mistake, I do not hate her, as some do. How can anyone hate pretend people? I just find her character poorly written. Unless of course she is meant to be a hypocrite with the mental capacity of a 4th grader. 

[Nightdragon8]

It's an ethnic group of people who strive to live on their own terms on a continent populated by humans who are overtly hostile to them. It's a culture aimed that allowing the elves within the clan to have the freedom to follow their own gods, the autonomy to govern themselves, and where their mages can be free. The reality is that it's a hard life to be Dalish, from the Chantry outlawing their religion to humans driving them off land if they stay too long, and even the templars pursue the clans for their mages.

 

 

Frankly, Sera expresses contempt at Lavellan upon seeing that the protagonist is an elf. Sera doesn't express a negative opinion due to what Lavellan says, but what the main character's race is.

 

Also, one of the first things Lavellan can tell Solas is that the Dalish are his people, too, and we had Merrill referring to the Kirkwall elves as 'elves' and expressing that their plight matters, so we already know this isn't a mindset held by all the Dalish. There's also no evidence that Sera has even met a Dalish elf before.

 

Furthermore, Sera doesn't seem to like the city elves. Sera particularly dislikes Briala, and opposes giving Briala power over the throne (despite her goal to empower the Orlesian elves), while she supports Gaspard ascending to the throne, despite his racist language to Briala and his infiltration of the ball with mercenaries.

yea.. a Dalish Elf...

 

see, this is the difference between talking about a culture and talking about people.

 

The same can be said about the Qun, can't we? I mean we have Sten, then the Aroshok (SP i know) Then Talis, and think wait, they aren't all barly speaking group of hardasses that have a stick up there asses... Then we have Iron Bull. Which tells us that, in reality people of the Qun are the same as people everywhere else. Its just in that in the Qun, your role is picked because what you are good at, not at what you want to do. And you find out again, not a bunch of stuckup asshats.

 

The reason she doesn't like city elves is because they don't stick up for themsleves and again blame everyone else for there problems, and insted of trying to do something to fix it, just sit in the same shithole they are in.

 

And before we get into the whole racial disparity in Thadis on this topic and completely derailing it. Or the soical/ecomimics of opressed peoples, as of late I'm tired of the topic.

[AresKeith]

@Stop_Him Sera also disproves if you ally with the Templars