155 réponses à ce sujet

[abearzi]

That's such a dumb comparison I am having a hard time justifying giving it a response. If twilight was made by the same people that created Romeo and Juliet, as well as twilgiht and romeo and juliet being in the same universe, with many of the same characters, and many of the same overarching themes it would make sense. As well as Twilgiht being a movie where you could transfer all the decisions made in every other story to carry over.

 

You just reduced this argument to absurdity while trying to accuse me of doing so. Many people liked the story of DA:O, but many people feel certain story aspects were severely lacking in DA:O. See, it doesn't mean anything unless it is justified by some reasoning. If you have some reasoning other than "hmm it just feels worse" please present it. From what i've seen the exact same criticisms people give DA:I they could give to every other Bioware game if they weren't drowning in nostalgia about them.

 

It's hard for this forum to accept, but the game got a fantastic reception. You guys think it is a buggy PoS, and maybe it is, yet it still got a plethora of reviews praising the story, characters, world, etc. On metacritic it is 5 points below DA:O for critic reviews, which is hard to imagine considering it had to live up to DA:O and all the people who want to stick their dick in the DA:O disc they love it so much. If you don't like the story, say you don't like it, but don't try using some vague literary analysis with absolutely no reasoning behind it to justify shitting on work talented writers who have made amazing stories (even by your guys estimation) have done. At least try to give them the same respect by actually explaining why it was light or bad.

 

Yes, the critics gave this game massive, unwarranted acclaim. These are literally, not figuratively, the exact same "professional" reviewer publishers who gave DA2 a perfect score (The Escapist) and triggered a huge shitstorm of backlash against Bioware about misleading and inaccurate "professional" reviews. However, the reviews of players (i.e.; the people not paid to write only positive reviews) have rated DAI much lowers, across all platforms. DAI is much closer to DA2 in terms of player reviews than it is to DAO. 

 

Since you're being deliberately obtuse regarding the story complaints of DAI and seem to have blinders applied to ignore the many threads which have outlined why many players feel the story is weak, I'll give you an executive summary:

• The story feels disjointed, since there are not fully-arced stories within each zone.
• The mini-bosses for each sub-section of the main quest have no impact or relevance, and are only developed enough to die shortly after their introduction.
• The climax is barely a climax. The final fight with Coryphishits seems unrelated to the buildup, and is disproportionately easy compared to many of the other encounters (or his DA2 appearance).
• The story ends with several significant cliff-hangers, seemingly to be DLC bait.
• The epilogue is a pale shadow of the epilogue of DAO regarding any choices made through the game.
• Very few of the choices made during the course of DAI seem to have any impact at all on the story. The only quest which explicitly prevents the players from doing another quest has no real impact, as the Templars end up as the main baddies anyway.
• Supporting characters are so vague and unrelatable that the choices become a coin-toss. Unlike Anora in DAO who you get a sense of who she is as the game progresses, the three characters vying for power in Orlais have no real personality. No time is spent actually developing them and so there is no interest in which of them actually has power.

And yes, I was making as absurd an argument as possible to demonstrate how reducing an argument to absurdity is bad logic and fallacious reasoning. The point, which you clearly missed, was that while the stories are similar, they are very much not similar enough to be suitably comparable. The complaints which are being voiced by many players were not voiced when DAO was released, nor even with DA2. DA2 had its own dumpster-fire of problems, but story was very rarely one of them.

[Bioware-Critic]

 DA: Origins and  especially the Awakening add-on

 

Reasons: Complexity, freedom of choice, depth and because it was just awesome all around!

 

DA:2 AND DA:I ... are really just spin-off's to me - nothing more

 

I really hate to have to say that. But anyways, that's how I see it ...

[Fragoos]

In Awakenings you could run around with sustained aoe. Once combat begins they put their weapons away again .2 second later. 

[Soul Of Men]

During my 90+ hours of playing DAO, I got quickly tired of it. The story was ok, the characters were mediocre and the combat was mostly unsatisfying. My first play though was back in 09, and played it again early this year. Nostalgia ruled my memory and I didn't even get 1/4 though it before I was tired of it.

DA2 improved the feel of combat, but the entire trapped in a city thing got old. The plot of DA2 was solid enough, the character writing was better, but didn't really click with any of them.

 

So for DAI. The characters are insanely interesting. Dorian, Sera and Cass I really enjoy. Varic is awesome, but as he was in DA2 he doesn't add anything "new". The group banter (that is hilarious, sad, or makes me just get all fuzzy inside) really helps pass the time between finding all the collectables. The combat was further improved over DA2 for feel in that attacks feel impactful. Swing a great axe around into a guy and you feel and hear the impact of the blow. Even with spells like energy barrage you can hear the sounds of impact that resonate. To avoid spoilers I wont go into detail about the plot, but its quite solid. Mix in all the side quests and quests for your companions, and spending 90+ hours in one play though is easily do-able.

 

DAI, best DA game so far.

[taglag]

I like the origins best, Maybe because it was so trend setting, and there were so many mods for it, but the story, and everything just seemed right, and I felt more involved with the Companian's, there Gabby banter, and general personalities just felt more fun.

 

{My dislike for DA2 was mainly because you were never allowed to choose your Race}

 

 

I like this one very much, but for some reason this one puts me to sleep a lot, I don't feel the drive to loose sleep, and complete that next little mission like I did in Origin's. I can easy quit this one, and I don't seem to go to bed wondering what I would do next when going to sleep, I just hit the bed and sleep.

 

{There is one thing that DA2, and DAI do that I felt was truly missing in Origin's, and that is your character actually speaks, I will adimit that was one thing I always hated about Origins is how the Main character just stood there like they were about to break wind, when ever dialogue was going on.}

 

This one very good, But the Op asked my favorite, and I have to say Origins is it.

[Harvest_King]

"Dragon Age IV: Blighted" was my favorite.

 

They listened to fans and brought back everything they took out, even made it a full scale sandbox. I didn't like playing a martyr though, oops sorry, spoliers.

[Corto81]

 

 

- The World. Inquisition has the best open world, hands down. I am a huge fan of open world games, with my #1 game prior to Inq being Red Dead Redemption (Origins was #2), but the life, detail and grandeur of DA:I's worlds is just unbelievable. You could stop at any point, anywhere, and see insects buzz past you, wild animals hunt each other, refugees talking around campfires, the wind whistle through the grass and trees, sandstorms blow past you, find carvings and paintings on random walls. That is what makes a great open world game, the ability to just stop and appreciate things that have no use other than immersion. The only things that would have made it better are day/night cycles & weather cycles.

 

 

See this is what I find confusing.

DA:I's world is big and beautiful, but life and detail and grandeur?

 

Val Royeaux is one town square.

No NPCs move or walk or talk or work (Val Royeaux, Winter Palace, Skyhold, doesn't matter... all NPCs just stand there and you can only interact with specific quest-related NPCs)

There's no day-night cycle.

You can't interact with objects.

You can't thieve, pickpocket, rob or kill (not saying it's for everyone, but open world games usually have these).

NPCs/Guards don't react to you.

Once or twice per zone you get an invisible wall when you're exploring... Then you have to go back to the War Table, do an operation, possibly grind some power first, and the teleport back. That is NOT good open world design.

Level-restricted loot is also counter-productive in an open world game, as are level-tiered zones. You might want to go somewhere, but the game wants you to go to specific areas - and designs the loot in that way as well (Kill a lvl 14 boss at level 11? Soz, wait for level 14 to use the loot)

Also, while this is minor... It all feels "clear" and PG-13. It's a medieval world, I didn't see the torture and troubles and blood and gore, at least not in a convincing way (Leliana being in a cell for a year, she aged a bit... same clothes, no problems...etc.).

 

It doesn't feel like a world, especially not a dark, dangerous one.

It feels like a cardboard, "fake" world, constructed solely because your character needs to do quests in it in order to level.

 

...

 

The wilderness is much better, I enjoyed it very much, but a "great open world" game it is not.

 

...

 

To be clear, of course you're free to see the world as you see it.

But to me, having seen the world of other open world games (TES), or games where citiesand villages feel alive (Witcher 2, etc.), DA:I's world feels.... Well, like I said, fake.

 

And it didn't bother me in DA:O, because the game wasn't constructed around that open world.

But it's like that in DA:I, and to me, it really is jarring.

[saladinbob]

It's clear reading the replies that the people who don't think Origins was the best game have no interest in the story or RPG elements, preferring the more action orientated style of its successors. There's nothing wrong with that, if that is your choice, save to say that this is meant to be a Role Playing Game not a 3rd person Action game with some 'RPG elements' (crafting, for example). This is where the problem lies. The series has changed genres but Bioware are still peddling the line it's an RPG which mislead many fans of Origins in to buying it. It's not and hasn't been since DA2.

[shadownian]

See this is what I find confusing.

DA:I's world is big and beautiful, but life and detail and grandeur?

 

Val Royeaux is one town square.

No NPCs move or walk or talk or work (Val Royeaux, Winter Palace, Skyhold, doesn't matter... all NPCs just stand there and you can only interact with specific quest-related NPCs)

There's no day-night cycle.

You can't interact with objects.

You can't thieve, pickpocket, rob or kill (not saying it's for everyone, but open world games usually have these).

NPCs/Guards don't react to you.

Once or twice per zone you get an invisible wall when you're exploring... Then you have to go back to the War Table, do an operation, possibly grind some power first, and the teleport back. That is NOT good open world design.

Level-restricted loot is also counter-productive in an open world game, as are level-tiered zones. You might want to go somewhere, but the game wants you to go to specific areas - and designs the loot in that way as well (Kill a lvl 14 boss at level 11? Soz, wait for level 14 to use the loot)

Also, while this is minor... It all feels "clear" and PG-13. It's a medieval world, I didn't see the torture and troubles and blood and gore, at least not in a convincing way (Leliana being in a cell for a year, she aged a bit... same clothes, no problems...etc.).

 

It doesn't feel like a world, especially not a dark, dangerous one.

It feels like a cardboard, "fake" world, constructed solely because your character needs to do quests in it in order to level.

 

...

 

The wilderness is much better, I enjoyed it very much, but a "great open world" game is it not.

 

...

 

To be clear, of course you're free to see the world as you see it.

But to me, having seen the world of other open world games (TES), or games where citiesand villages feel alive (Witcher 2, etc.), DA:I's world feels.... Well, like I said, fake.

 

And it didn't bother me in DA:O, because the game wasn't constructed around that open world.

But it's like that in DA:I, and to me, it really is jarring.

I didnt even think of that, didnt they say how people were suppose to move and interact with the environment and have their own lives and schedules?? Dint they specifically say that NPC's wouldnt just be waiting for you to come interact with them, just sitting in place like they do?

[saladinbob]

Inquisition is no more an open world than Origins was. It's maps are just bigger.

[Tsunami Chef]

Once or twice per zone you get an invisible wall when you're exploring... Then you have to go back to the War Table, do an operation, possibly grind some power first, and the teleport back. That is NOT good open world design.

Level-restricted loot is also counter-productive in an open world game, as are level-tiered zones. You might want to go somewhere, but the game wants you to go to specific areas - and designs the loot in that way as well (Kill a lvl 14 boss at level 11? Soz, wait for level 14 to use the loot)

Also, while this is minor... It all feels "clear" and PG-13. It's a medieval world, I didn't see the torture and troubles and blood and gore, at least not in a convincing way (Leliana being in a cell for a year, she aged a bit... same clothes, no problems...etc.).

 

It doesn't feel like a world, especially not a dark, dangerous one.

It feels like a cardboard, "fake" world, constructed solely because your character needs to do quests in it in order to level.

 

Just a few points I'd like to address

 

There are no "invisible walls" where you need to get someone to do a mission to get past. There's poison, rubble, bridges, etc that need to be built/destroyed/moved in order to pass. I don't understand how this is bad design at all. Anyone who had to grind power wasn't even playing this game for the open world in the first place. I never "grinded" power and was able to unlock every area i ran into easily and still finish the main quest. Well, you are free to think it's bad design, but they are not invisible walls. That, i agree, would be dumb, and jarring to roleplaying.

 

The devs disagree with you on level tiered loot, and so do i, but like you said, to each his own.

 

Why would the tevinter blood mages waste time changing Lelianas clothes when they are using her face to peel skin cells off of? Do you think they are worried about her hygiene while they are simultaneously ripping off the skin on her face for tests?..Would it have been better if they showed poop stains running down her leg?

 

I don't understand how this is more PG-13 than just about any open world game i've played...there is sex, execution by beheading (which you get to do personally), massive amounts of blood, storylines about sexuality and mature themes...

 

It definitely felt like a world to me, much moreso than games like Skyrim where I felt like the NPC's reacted to me the exact same way regardless of whether i had just been let out of prison or i was the leader of 3 different guilds and the most famous man in Skyrim. I understand the point of view, but I'd just like to point out that people like me didn't see it that way. I will take the NPC's you do talk to accurately reflecting the state of the world, and the background dialogue you hear about the quests you have done over being able to interact with every NPC anytime. Although you can't interact with every NPC in DA:I, or even a good portion of them, I still found the quality of the NPC"s I did talk to outweighed my desire to listen to every single citizen saying "hi" and having no other dialogue, or the devs having to cut the NPC amount to like 1/5th of what it is now.

 

Edit: Hmm Im going to make a pact to stop arguing with people who disliked the game. I just know it made me feel good . Your opinion is no less valid than mine .

[Razir-Samus]

DA:O and DA2 from the dragon age perspective are better, they are true to the style that the franchise began with... DA:I on the other hand is the typical AAA makeover, lackluster in many regards, flashy, good looking, with many many features still missing, many bugs still apparent (some very obvious ones), and some features simply not functioning in a logical manner at all

[Elanor]

My favourite is Origins. And from what I see it's always going to be. I hoped that Inqusition could reach this level but it's really worse. Mostly if you think about the story. 

 

The series has changed genres but Bioware are still peddling the line it's an RPG which mislead many fans of Origins in to buying it. It's not and hasn't been since DA2.

 

They got me on that. I feel deceived but way to go marketing team. 

[Chaos17]

DAO because it has all the basics we expected from a c-rpg even the mouse and keyoard controls.

And Bioware supported modders by giving them a toolset.

[Corto81]

 

 

There are no "invisible walls" where you need to get someone to do a mission to get past. There's poison, rubble, bridges, etc that need to be built/destroyed/moved in order to pass. I don't understand how this is bad design at all. Anyone who had to grind power wasn't even playing this game for the open world in the first place. I never "grinded" power and was able to unlock every area i ran into easily and still finish the main quest. Well, you are free to think it's bad design, but they are not invisible walls. That, i agree, would be dumb, and jarring to roleplaying.

 

The devs disagree with you on level tiered loot, and so do i, but like you said, to each his own.

 

Why would the tevinter blood mages waste time changing Lelianas clothes when they are using her face to peel skin cells off of? Do you think they are worried about her hygiene while they are simultaneously ripping off the skin on her face for tests?..Would it have been better if they showed poop stains running down her leg?

 

I don't understand how this is more PG-13 than just about any open world game i've played...there is sex, execution by beheading (which you get to do personally), massive amounts of blood, storylines about sexuality and mature themes...

 

It definitely felt like a world to me, much moreso than games like Skyrim where I felt like the NPC's reacted to me the exact same way regardless of whether i had just been let out of prison or i was the leader of 3 different guilds and the most famous man in Skyrim. I understand the point of view, but I'd just like to point out that people like me didn't see it that way. I will take the NPC's you do talk to accurately reflecting the state of the world, and the background dialogue you hear about the quests you have done over being able to interact with every NPC anytime. Although you can't interact with every NPC in DA:I, or even a good portion of them, I still found the quality of the NPC"s I did talk to outweighed my desire to listen to every single citizen saying "hi" and having no other dialogue, or the devs having to cut the NPC amount to like 1/5th of what it is now.

 

Edit: Hmm Im going to make a pact to stop arguing with people who disliked the game. I just know it made me feel good . Your opinion is no less valid than mine .

 

Fair point about invisible walls, lets not call them that. Lets call them "operations".

And it happened to me several times that I had to go grind power in order to complete a mission (I don't really do Requistions and Fade Rifts get really boring after a while, same mobs over and over).

And when it happens, it's very immersion breaking and annoying, and no, doesn't fit the open world concept.

 

The devs obviously disagree on the loot, doesn't make them right.
I still maintain level-restricted loot is ridiculously counter-productive, counter-intuitive and discourages taking the paths you want to take... in an "open world" game.

It's open world, but you only get rewarded if you take exactly the path the devs wanted you to take.

 

The point about Leliana's clothes is that they remain untouched.

It's basically a medieval world, where torture and rape was common.

In Witcher 2, people in dungeons go through treatment that you'd expect in that world. They're stripped, tortured, etc.

With Leliana, it feels very "artificial". If you don't wanna do that scene, are do it right, or don't do it all IMO.

It felt very Disney.

 

As for sex, DA:I is full of implied sex... The PG-13 kind, mixed in with phallic jokes from Iron Bull.

Witcher 2 did it correctly. The believable way in a medieval world, not afraid of nudity or difficult subjects, and did the "romance" scenes the right way - with taste.
(Triss scene in the elven baths makes Dragon Age scenes look really lame)

Oh and before anyone mentions Sex Cards, that was Witcher 1.

 

Your feelings about the Skyrim world are your own, I can only try and present my case as to why Skyrim's world is alive and DA:I's world is "fake".

Like I said, you can interact with everyone. These people have lives in a living world - you just happen to be there.

DA:I sets up a cardboard world, a theme park if you will, where people just stand or talk etc., like I said, the world feels (to me) specifically designed so I can quest in it. 

You walk around naked in Skyrim? People shout at you to get your clothes on.

You're a criminal? Guards attack you. 
You got weapons out? Guards warn you to sheathe them.

You find an NPC particularly annoying or evil ? Sneak into their house and whack them.

etc etc etc.

 

Now, these are FACTS, about the Skyrim and DA:I world.
Whether that bothers you or how it makes you feel is something entirely different, it's up to the individual.

it doesn't bother someone at all.

It does bother me though. Like I said, the world feels fake and shallow and just exist so I can go level there.

[saladinbob]

Walking around DAI feels like walking around one of those Nuclear test site towns with their mock houses and plastic dummies. What I'm trying to say here is that the environments within Inquisition feel fake. Denerim and Kirkwall where far from perfect but at least they felt more alive than Val Royeux or Redcliffe do. Denerim at least had ambient sound effects of the hustle and bustle of a living city. It had children playing in the streets, it had beggers, it had its poor quarter (the Alienage), it had its backstreets. At least Kirkwall had a day and night cycle (albeit not a real time one) where the streets were more dangerous of a night. They may not have been perfect in game asset terms, far from it in fact, but at least the effort was made. By comparison, Inquisition feels shallow.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The missing Day/Night cycle becomes glaringly obvious once you get to the Fallow Mire. There are undead rising from the water, why would I wade through that in the darkness? I'd come back during the day if I could...

[Adynata]

DA:I for me, but it's close with Origins. The deal breaker, for me, is the armor crafting and the variety of places you can go (whenever you want). I just hope we can get some new schematics at some point.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

They've each brought something unique to the table, but I'd say I'm most fond of DragonAgeII, and unfortunately my experience with Inquisition is significantly diminished due to how the game treats Hawke.

If Bioware can pull out some quality Hawke DLC, maybe the hole in my chest will close over. Otherwise, damn fine game, I’m enjoying my overall experience with it immensely. Just not getting the fondness for the Inquisitor like I did with Hawke, and in a Bioware game, that matters.

So on a scale of fondness, DAII, DAI, and DAO, in that order, but it's hard to play favourites with this series.

[Dominus]

DA:I.

The console version of DA:O wasn't a favorite of mine, though I enjoyed the story well enough. The gameplay didn't match up well enough for me, and I get the feeling BioWare heard Console fans' remarks on this.

DA2's Storylining had some good ideas, but didn't exactly blow me away.

All Hail DA:I.

[Setz]

The polls balanced out to a pretty believable level. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm going to commit blasphemy here.  While I love and will always love Origins, I prefer Inquisition a lot more.  I like the story, I like some of the game play changes (and some do leave me going WHY MAKER WHY???,) and I really love the characters.  I think the locations are more interesting and rather than just reading some codex entries about the Dales or Orlais, I feel like I've been immersing myself in Thedas as a player.  

 

To each their own.  

[Futhark]

Origins. Longer Main Quest, much more better side quests, more armor diversity, classes have more abilities\spells -> better class customization, possibility to combine spell efects into much more devastating effects, higher difficulty -> tactics -> interesting fights, MODS -> better customization of items\character\textures...so yeah, definitely Origins.

[berrieh]

My favorite DA game is DAI. Love the open world. Love the companions. Love the combat (comparatively - not amazing, earth-shattering combat but the most fun of the 3 for me). Love the choice points. Really digging it. 

 

While I think DAO is a better game than DA2 quality-wise (recycled environments and poor wave combat bring down any sense of objective scoring I'd give DA2), if you're asking about pure enjoyment, I think I might prefer DA2 to DAO, though. But it's a toss-up. They both have different issues for me. DAI has much, much less issue. 

 

I think DAI has a better story and characters than DA2 which has a better story and characters than DAO (though DAO has more likable characters than DA2). DA2 was too limited in role-playing compared to DAO, but the story was stronger for it. In my opinion. The 3rd act isn't great, but a lot of DAO story isn't great either. There are great moments in all 3 games.

 

I think the companions in DAI are the first that I care about every single one, that I have a strong emotion towards each one and never want to leave any at home (love or hate). That and the lack of long slogs (DAO has the Deep Roads, the Fade, and the last battle) contributes to my liking it a lot more than DAO. And I loved DAO at the time because the Dragon Age world and lore is amazing and there was no Dragon Age game without those issues. Then, DA2 mostly fixed those issues but was very limited in scope and technically flawed. DAI fixes it for good for me. 

 

I think the DAI story is strengthened by the world-building that has been done by other games, novels, comics, etc, though, so I have to give DAO props for making DAI possible. After all, characters like Morrigan and Leliana and Cullen were first seen in DAO. 

[fireproof_boots]

Definitely DA:O.  Second would be DA:I and DA2 is a distant third.  The combat and immersion in DA2 is hands down the worst for me, while DA:O nailed both.  DA:I has fun moments and good companions (much better than DA2 for me) but lacks the immersion and gameplay that DA:O has.